SanDisk CF Express Cards are Arriving

Several manufacturers

So not the licensing/profiteering issue that seems to be Sony's game with XQD?

So not the licensing/profiteering issue that seems to be Sony's game with XQD?

 

I thought it was more that they weren't paying extra money to Sony for the licence? CFast had more in common with CompactFlash, so it may have been slightly easier to implement in early stages, but PCI-e is a pretty widely-known technology at this point; once they had to support these cards at all, it should be sunk cost.

I remember when Sony was the only manufacturer of XQD and Lexar 2.0 was 'promising' to start making them real soon, and it never happened.

 

There was a long going thread on here regarding such assurances from Lexar's new management, which I personally never believed.

 

Turned out Sony were applying the strong-arm regarding to licensing fees.... and Lexar was just selling off old stock and not making new ones.

Well, after a while, Delkin started to make XQD cards to fill in the space left by Lexar. Availability hasn't really been a big issue, as far as I know, apart from temporary shortages of a particular card type (when I bought my 32GB cards the Sony G 64GB was out of stock; later on I purchased two 64GB cards).

 

Sandisk CFast 2.0 64 GB is currently $145, Lexar CFast 2.0 64GB $140, Hoodman 64GB $150 etc. On the XQD side, Sony G 64 GB $129.95 (I remember paying around $100 in July 2017, so the price increase has been about 30% in two years), Delkin XQD 64GB is $140. So basically although prices of Sony XQD cards increased, possibly in part as a result of component price increases, but possibly also for the temporary lack of competition due to Lexar quitting the memory card business, at the 64GB size they're not more expensive than the typical name-brand CFast cards of the same size, even though many many manufacturers make CFast cards.

 

At a bit larger size, Sony 120GB XQD is $196, Delkin 120GB XQD is $190 and Sandisk CFexpress 128GB is $200, Prograde Digital CFexpress 128GB is $230. Sandisk CFast 2.0 128GB is $249, Lexar $230, Angelbird $200, Transcend $190.

 

This has been my point all along - Sony cannot arbitrarily charge for XQD cards because the devices that use them do not exist in a void without competition, they never did.

It is more like Sony depends on Nikon to create the demand for XQD. Otherwise, they would have been really expensive if Sony needs to make them only for the few Sony camcorders.

 

When Micron owned Lexar, they were in a much better position to negotiate with Sony since Micron have their own patents that Sony may need access to. But that relationship quickly changed when Micron dumped Lexar, which Longsys subsequently picked up. Longsys doesn't have their patent portfolio to negotiate with Sony such that apparently no agreement was reached. Everybody is now just moving onto CFx to avoid the Sony royalty issue.

 

CFast has been popular among the higher-end camcorder market, but of course that is a somewhat limited market. Existing camcorders will still be available and in use for a few more years, but that medium is coming to a dead end. CFast is even more expensive than XQD. If one needs it, I would get the minimum amount to get by, but CFast will be obsolete in a few years.

 

Below is a screen capture of XQD prices on B&H from the end of 2016, when Nikon announced the D5 and D500 at the beginning of the year. $51 for a 32G Lexar XQD and $150 for 128G. I paid that kind of prices for most of my XQD cards, and I thought they were reasonable. When Micron announced that they were dumping Lexar, I quickly snapped up a couple more. Early in 2019, Sony had a brief discount on their 120G XQD: Sony XQD Card Price Drop

I thought that would be the permanent price, but it went back up a few weeks later.

 

Hopefully CFx will be cheaper because it is free of royalties and has a lot more competition.

 

My "Cheerio" is still smoking from buying 4x 128GB XQD cards which I find plenty fast. I'll likely stick with those for the life of the cameras.

When can we expect firmware updates to make Z6, Z7, D500 and D850 compatible with CFexpress.

When can we expect firmware updates to make Z6, Z7, D500 and D850 compatible with CFexpress.

It is kind of pointless to have the firmware update while no CFx card is available on the market. However, behind the scenes, I am sure various card manufacturers have been testing with Nikon, since at least initially, the majority of CFx purchase will come from Nikon still-camera users, plus some Panasonic owners and a few camcorder users. If your CFx card is not fully compatible with Nikon cameras, they'll just sit on the market. (Back in 2016, those Lexar XQD cards shown above were not fully compatible with some Sony camcorders, while Sony XQD cards could be used with both Sony camcorders and Nikon cameras.)

 

I would imagine Nikon will release the new firmware as more CFx card come onto the market. Nikon has a close relationship with SanDisk so that I am quite sure that it'll all be coordinated. However, Nikon may need to further patch the firmware as more and more brands come onto the market.

 

Personally, I would not rush out and pre-order those CFx cards. I would wait for some compatibility test results with actual new firmware and actual cards. Most likely card prices will also come down.

I don't understand why this is even doubted. Nikon have officially stated that the cameras remain XQD compatible after the CFexpress update is installed:

 

Development of New Firmware for Nikon's Full-Frame Mirrorless Cameras, The Nikon Z 7 and Nikon Z 6

 

"After upgrading, users will be able to use both CFexpress as well as XQD cards in their camera interchangeably."

 

Firmware updates cannot realistically break the specifications of the camera, and these cameras have been sold with XQD compatibility.

 

I did not read this article because the title adresses just Z6 and Z7 camera's.

Indeed in this artoicle it mentiones that there will be frimware updates for thr D5 D850 and D500 camera's too, but the backward compatibiliy was not anounced for these camera's in any other place that i have seen, and the whole update article i have not seen on any Dutch Nikon website either..

"$51 for a 32G Lexar XQD and $150 for 128G. "

 

Current price here : 98 EUR for a 32GB , 179 EUR for a 64GB , $249 Eur for a 120GB and 529 Eur for a 240gb card, all "G" cards ..

"$51 for a 32G Lexar XQD and $150 for 128G. "

 

Current price here : 98 EUR for a 32GB , 179 EUR for a 64GB , $249 Eur for a 120GB and 529 Eur for a 240gb card, all "G" cards ..

In 2010 when Nikon introduced the D7000, it was the first time I had a camera that uses SD cards. Back then in 2010 and 2011, I paid about $100 for each 32G SD card. When a 32G XQD card was available for $51 in 2016, it was about half the price for those SD cards from 6 years earlier. Therefore I thought prices for XQD was quite reasonable.

 

XQD prices have gone up somewhat since 2016, but if you have to pay a lot more than what I paid in 2016, I would wait for CFx to come onto the market. Or you need to purchase from the right places/countries.

"$51 for a 32G Lexar XQD and $150 for 128G. "

 

Current price here : 98 EUR for a 32GB , 179 EUR for a 64GB , $249 Eur for a 120GB and 529 Eur for a 240gb card, all "G" cards ..

 

Yes; memory cards are really expensive in many European stores. I've bought almost all my memory cards from the United States. Interestingly often delivery from B&H in New York to Finland is faster than when buying from a European store. :) However, at the moment the price difference isn't as great as it was a few years ago and finding the lowest prices within the EU area would probably be the best bet. I know there is the language barrier in shopping around in EU countries, but surprisingly good deals can be found if you're willing to deal with it.

 

In Finland, Sony TOUGH 64GB SD cards cost 164 € (lowest price). Sony G series XQD 64GB costs 149€ . So if I want to buy a robust SD card with reasonable write speed, I pay more and get less than with XQD, buying in Finland. B&H prices are $129 (SD TOUGH) and $129.95 (XQD). Yes, I know there are cheaper SD cards but my experience is that they're too short-lived and slow.

Edited September 17, 2019 by ilkka_nissila

A comparable profesional sd card like the Angelbird cards (shock and impact resistant 170mb/s usable from -25 up to 85 ceslius) : Angelbird AVpro SDXC UHS-II V60 128GB 2-pack are priced at 179 Euro for 2 pieces, just an example.

 

Thing is if using SD, you have a choice for fast or slow, small or large whatever you need at a moment and whatever you can afford at a certain point in time.

XQD / CF express does not give you that choice : always large and always expensive.

 

It is my stupid mistake for aquiring an XQD camera, i know, i should have gained more information before buying, but i will not make this mistake again by buying a Z series camera...

Now all of a sudden, besides SanDisk, Lexar and ProGrade CFx cards are also available for pre-order. They are not quite available yet, but should be very soon. That means Nikon's firmware upgrade for CFx compatibility should also be available in the near future.

 

Among them, ProGrade is slightly cheaper @ $180 for the 128G type. That is getting close to the relatively low XQD prices a few years back. Recall that ProGrade was formed by former Lexar management when Micron sold the Lexar brand name to the Chinese LongSys company. Interestingly, ProGrade maintains the black-and-gold color scheme from Lexar.

 

Again, personally I would not pre-order any CFx memory cards. For one thing Nikon's firmware upgrade is not yet available. There is always a tiny chance that you may end up with a card that is not compatible with your camera. But with more and more competition coming on line, I expect prices for CFx to go down. Potentially it would go down rapidly.

 

C. P. M. I do half of my photography these days in North Dakota where the temperature in winter never gets above 0 F for three months -28 F with -60 wind chill in February of this year. My D500 and D850 with XQD and SD have never missed a beat. But, I can say that for all my Nikon gear. As well in the panhandle of Florida where I have lived for 5 years it stays in the nineties with regular 90% humidity in the summer for three months a year. It was 100 F yesterday in Ponce de Leon., FL. I think I am spoiled rotten with the reliability of my Nikon stuff. When I happily shot with two Fuji S2s that would take Nikon lenses I had frequent power failures that I could never ascertain that were repaired without incident by removing the batteries and reinstalling them. That is really hard to do underwater. The Hitachi 2G micro drives I used back then were $250 and were reliable in the S2 in 2005. I don’t have any problems with XQD cards and why would I want anything less than a fast XQD. Speed is after all the primary reason for XQD. I have many SD cards of all speeds and 4 XQD cards that are slamming fast. I can leave slow to my SD cards and I do. Even my very fast SD cards are relatively slow compared to XQD. When I shoot landscapes I don’t exercise my XQD, I use SD. For moving animals and inanimates its XQD all the way. I am looking forward to a flag ship Nikon mirrorless with dual CFexpress or XQD.........in DX (just kidding). From what I can see Canon has not done a better job with memory cards and everyone else with speed cameras use SD. I would gladly shoot other companies cameras especially Fuji but have stayed with Nikon because I grew up with them and chose to stay with them because of their ruggedness when they were technologically behind Canon. Right now Nikon seems to be doing the most to assure the fastest memory card so I think life is pretty good. I just hope they will make their bodies compatible with CFexpress sooner than later. The interface and form factor are similar after all. Mirrorless cameras that can shoot 100 + MB files at 20fps are and will be demanding a lot from memory cards. My understanding is that the XQD and CFexpress PCle interface is the future. It’s is now the standard for desk and laptop computers. There is already too much to learn but I can’t imagine that anyone on this forum is stupid for the cameras they own. Especially you. Stay frosty.

Similar to Nikon pre-announcing the D6, Canon today also pre-announces the 1Dx Mark III, pretty much as expected. With this new DSLR, Canon is finally abandoning both CF and CFast cards. The 1Dx Mark III will have dual CFexpress slots, similar to the D5 (which also has a dual CF option). The era of CFx is finally just around the corner.

.... and still no firmware update to allow CFx to work in Nikon cameras that currently use XQD.

.... and still no firmware update to allow CFx to work in Nikon cameras that currently use XQD.

Nikon will probably provide firmware upgrades (D5, D850, D500, Z7, and Z6) next month in November for CFx compatibility. Few CFx cards are actually available on the market anyway. Maybe ProGrade is available in limited numbers. I assume some final testing is still in progress.

 

I wouldn't be surprised that some compatibility issues may surface. We could see further firmware upgrades to patch issues. I wouldn't rush out to buy new CFx cards. The Canon 1Dx Mark 3 and Nikon D6 will probably not available until January/February 2020.

Interestingly CFx cards have all disappeared from Amazon UK and many other European Amazon sites.

Still in pre-order state at B&H.

Also disappeared from the other online strores in the Netherlands, and AMazon Germany

disappeared

Weird or what?

 

Total Recall?

 

..and no, not the film...:D

A few more questions:

 

Will Sony continue to manufacture their XQD cards? Could they switch to CFexpress themselves entirely?

 

Are their current XQD cards expected to drop in prices in the following months?

 

Any information on when Nikon are expected to put out the firmware upgrade?

 

Sony doesn't even use XQD in their still cameras because there's no bandwidth requirement. Until we get 4K 60fps, or 6K or 8K, UHS-II will handle the data rates just fine.

 

The great thing about XQD (and PCI devices in general) is that buffering can be essentially dispensed with. Having watched a D4 in continuous mode basically never stop shooting RAW files, it's pretty clear what might be done.

 

XQD is the new MemoryStick. Good job, Sony.

 

No, no word on the FW patch. Still waiting and hoping for my D850.

XQD is the new MemoryStick. Good job, Sony

You mean they are BOTH dead? Not even their own a7R IV supports it...

 

CFx's main benefit is to remove Sony's perceived monopoly of XQD. That was the reason given by Lexar 2.0 execs as to why they never made any....

 

Oh, and it goes even faster too...:-)

Edited October 30, 2019 by mike_halliwell

Among Sony mirrorless, the A9 and now A92 certainly have bandwidth requirements. Why the A9 has only one SD card slot that is UHS-2 is beyond me (the other SD slot on the A9 is UHS-1). At least Sony finally puts two UHS-2 SD slots on the A92.

 

When I use the D500 and D850 and I need framerate, sometimes I remove the UHS-2 SD card and just keep the XQD card inside so that the buffer won't fill up too quickly. I would much rather have two cards in the backup mode, but when I am losing frames due to the slower UHS-2 SD speed, I might as well only use XQD. That is why I appreciate the dual XQD set up on the D5 so much.

 

I am sure the Sony A9 and A92 could have benefitted from XQD and now CFx cards. Why Sony doesn't use XQD is very puzzling to me. The only explanation is that Sony somehow wants to keep their mirrorless cameras really small.

 

A great thing about CFx is indeed divorcing XQD from Sony's royalty, which was clearly limiting the development and adaptation of XQD. Nikon was paying a price for being an early adopter. Now Canon is using CFx and on B&H, there are now six brands of CFx cards for pre-order:

 

cfexpress memory card | B&H Photo Video - Grid View

• SanDisk
  
• Lexar
  
• Delkin
  
• ProGrade
  
• Wise Advanced
  
• CineGears
  

The first three are quite well known. ProGrade is essentially a spin off from Lexar after Micron sold them in 2017. ProGrade was formed by former Lexar executives and makes higher-end memory cards. I am not familiar with CineGears. It seems to be a Chinese company that makes wireless control equipment for video, and memory card maybe a new area for them. Their CFx cards are super expensive.

 

However, after like two months, we are still in the pre-order stage, and Nikon's firmware upgrade is still pending.