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Has anyone tried Lab-Box, a daylight film developer tank?


terrymc

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I started when I was 9, when we returned from a trip to Canada, including Butchart Gardens.

 

While visiting the gardens, I happened to notice an exposed roll of VP620 in a trash can, which

I picked up. So, that was my first roll, just in case it didn't work.

 

This was my first try with a Yankee II tank.

 

I think I did have a practice roll besides that, which I remember because it was pink.

 

It was a year later, after I learned from my grandfather how to load a Nikor tank, that I inherited

much of his darkroom equipment, including the Nikor tank and a changing bag.

 

There are enough people closing down home darkrooms and giving away supplies, that it isn't

hard to find free equipment. The changing bag I have now was about $8, mailed from China.

 

The difficulty of loading plastic reels depends a lot on humidity!

-- glen

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I think it's difficult for you to understand precisely because you've been doing it since age 10. For somebody like my whose only been doing it a few years, the initial struggles with getting film on a reel in a changing bag just relying on my sense of touch is fresh in my mind.

 

I've gotten good enough at it now that Lab-Box doesn't have any appeal, but it might have a few years ago. In addition to the cost of a changing bag and a regular tank/reels, you've got to find a sacrificial roll of film. In my case both 35mm and 120. So that might cost $50 or more (changing bag, patterson tank, film). Still a whole lot cheaper than lab-box, but not free.

You do have a point about the difficulties of loading film onto a reel--I teach a beginning B&W film class at a community college and the thing my students have the hardest time with is learning how to load film onto reels. With our budget we're not about to invest in the number of Lab-Boxes we would need along with the additional chemistry we would use with them, though, particularly since virtually all of our students learn how to successfully load steel reels and tanks.

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Do you use the loading device (curved piece of metal that curves the film just

the right amount) when teaching?

 

When I learned from my grandfather 51 years ago, he told me that he used it

the first few times, then found it better not to use it. I then used it the first

few times, and found that I liked it better without it.

 

Without using it, you get more feel for how the film is going into the slots,

and especially when it isn't. (Going into the wrong layer, and possibly

touching other parts of the roll.)

 

Otherwise, it isn't all that hard to do, except that you do it in the dark.

(And, unlike just about everything else, there isn't an app for it.)

-- glen

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My first tank and reel was $5.00 set that I found on craigslist. The tank was fine but the reel had one of those awful spring clips. Had a I been less determined, using that reel might have turned me off to processing my own film completely.

 

Eventually I got a decent Hewes reel on Ebay that worked well. When I started with medium format I purchased a two-reel Patterson tank that will let you process two 35mm rolls or a single 120 roll.

 

So while you can find used dark room stuff cheap, it's not necessarily what you're looking for and not necessarily good.

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My first tank and reel was $5.00 set that I found on craigslist. The tank was fine but the reel had one of those awful spring clips. Had a I been less determined, using that reel might have turned me off to processing my own film completely.

 

Eventually I got a decent Hewes reel on Ebay that worked well. When I started with medium format I purchased a two-reel Patterson tank that will let you process two 35mm rolls or a single 120 roll.

 

So while you can find used dark room stuff cheap, it's not necessarily what you're looking for and not necessarily good.

 

I NEVER use the center clips.

Even on the good Nikor reels, if you put the film in the clip off-center, you can buckle the film.

I just slide the end on the film into the center and start winding.

 

The Hewes method of hooking onto the sprocket holes for 35mm film, is simpler and better than the clip.

But there is no sprocket hole for 120 film, so we are back to clip or not clip, and I again do not use the clip.

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I think it's difficult for you to understand precisely because you've been doing it since age 10. For somebody like my whose only been doing it a few years, the initial struggles with getting film on a reel in a changing bag just relying on my sense of touch is fresh in my mind.

 

I've gotten good enough at it now that Lab-Box doesn't have any appeal, but it might have a few years ago. In addition to the cost of a changing bag and a regular tank/reels, you've got to find a sacrificial roll of film. In my case both 35mm and 120. So that might cost $50 or more (changing bag, patterson tank, film). Still a whole lot cheaper than lab-box, but not free.

 

Even with the Paterson tanks, the students had to practice loading it in daylight.

To paraphrase Murphy,

 

If a student can make a mistake, a mistake WILL be made.

 

So I consider a sacrificial roll of film, the CHEAPEST you can find, mandatory for ANY method used.

An outdated roll of film might be $1 or less, or even free if really outdated.

If you are getting a used darkroom setup, the seller might even throw in a few rolls of old film.

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So I consider a sacrificial roll of film, the CHEAPEST you can find, mandatory for ANY method used.

An outdated roll of film might be $1 or less, or even free if really outdated.

If you are getting a used darkroom setup, the seller might even throw in a few rolls of old film.

 

It surprises me what people want for expired film but I have gotten a bunch at a garage sale for very little money so it can be done.

 

Finding stuff like good used changing bags and reels might require some patience. Just a quick search of the craigslist adds in my area show stuff like timers, trays, and other miscellaneous darkroom stuff, along with several enlargers, but no reels or tanks. I know that they pop up now and then.

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(snip)

So I consider a sacrificial roll of film, the CHEAPEST you can find, mandatory for ANY method used.

An outdated roll of film might be $1 or less, or even free if really outdated.

If you are getting a used darkroom setup, the seller might even throw in a few rolls of old film.

 

I believe my Yankee II came with a plastic strip the size of a roll of film to practice,

except for the stickyness of damp (humid days or sweaty hands) film.

 

Otherwise, there are people who collect old film, so sometimes

the price goes up. Especially for rare or unusual films.

 

Black and white film are usually usable many years, even decades, after the date.

 

Color films don't last as long, so might be better choices for practice film.

-- glen

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I never had a 35mm stainless reel with a clip, but my 120 reel has one.

 

The first time I tried it, I didn't use the clip. During processing, the film started to

move toward the center, so now I use the clip. The first one wasn't especially

important, just practice and fun, but I think one frame went into the center.

(I suspect older film with a lot of curl. That might matter.)

 

I also have a plastic reel with a sharp hood at the center, so you can use either

the traditional (outside in) loading, or like stainless reels, inside out. I bought

that one for 116, but now have a stainless 116 reel.

-- glen

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Do you use the loading device (curved piece of metal that curves the film just

the right amount) when teaching?

 

When I learned from my grandfather 51 years ago, he told me that he used it

the first few times, then found it better not to use it. I then used it the first

few times, and found that I liked it better without it.

 

Without using it, you get more feel for how the film is going into the slots,

and especially when it isn't. (Going into the wrong layer, and possibly

touching other parts of the roll.)

 

Otherwise, it isn't all that hard to do, except that you do it in the dark.

(And, unlike just about everything else, there isn't an app for it.)

We don't have or use the curved loading aid with stainless steel reels, but we have students practice with old film first in room light, then with their eyes closed before they actually try to load film that they shot. Most get it on the first try, the rest by the second or third.

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I believe my Yankee II came with a plastic strip the size of a roll of film to practice,

except for the stickyness of damp (humid days or sweaty hands) film.

 

I use a BIG changing bag with something in the bag (like a cardboard box) to hold it up.

The more air you have in the bag the less your hands get sticky.

And you have to work FAST, or your hands and arm start to sweat in the bag.

A fan blowing on you may help to not sweat.

 

I made the mistake of buying a small bag for 35mm.

And that was fine, except for the smaller volume of air in the small bag.

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It surprises me what people want for expired film but I have gotten a bunch at a garage sale for very little money so it can be done.

 

Finding stuff like good used changing bags and reels might require some patience. Just a quick search of the craigslist adds in my area show stuff like timers, trays, and other miscellaneous darkroom stuff, along with several enlargers, but no reels or tanks. I know that they pop up now and then.

 

Because a changing bag HAS TO BE LIGHT TIGHT, I don't buy them used. Especially since they are relatively inexpensive.

 

I got my extra SS reels and tanks from the used section of a photo shop, now closed. I've also seen them for sale at photo fairs/shows.

The problem with used reels is that if they were dropped, they could be bent, and a bent SS reel can be a PiA to load. So you have to check very carefully to verify that they are not bent.

I have a couple of the Honeywell Nikor 4x5 tanks, from the photo fair. :)

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The first bag I had, from my grandfather, was pretty big.

 

The second, which I should still have except forget where is, is pretty small.

(Birthday present many years ago.)

 

The one I have now is medium sized. After I put my arms in, I open the seal around the

arm holes and let the weight of the tank and such pull air in. It is a pretty nice bag,

with two arm seals. I only remember one on my other bags, but maybe they have two.

 

Mostly it isn't so hot here, but once it was a hot summer day when I learned not

to do it on a hot summer day.

-- glen

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Because a changing bag HAS TO BE LIGHT TIGHT, I don't buy them used. Especially since they are relatively inexpensive.

 

(snip)

 

The first one I had, used rubber for the light proof stuff, (along with black cloth), but the rubber got

hard and dry after some years. If it is still flexible enough, I probably don't worry too much about it.

 

 

All changing bags I know of, use two layers of black materials, though only one with plastic or rubber

coating. The first two bags I had, you could see in the space between the two bags.

I just noticed on my current bag that you can't do that. That makes it harder to test the

light tightness.

 

But also, the suggestion above about used darkroom equipment was mostly for tanks, trays,

safelights, timers, and such. My main enlarger I got free, except that the condenser lenses

were missing. Buying used ones on eBay fixed that for about $10. I also have a color enlarger

that I got free, but haven't tried testing at all.

-- glen

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Because a changing bag HAS TO BE LIGHT TIGHT, I don't buy them used. Especially since they are relatively inexpensive.

 

I got my extra SS reels and tanks from the used section of a photo shop, now closed. I've also seen them for sale at photo fairs/shows.

The problem with used reels is that if they were dropped, they could be bent, and a bent SS reel can be a PiA to load. So you have to check very carefully to verify that they are not bent.

I have a couple of the Honeywell Nikor 4x5 tanks, from the photo fair. :)

I've owned and used a Photoflex Changing Room for many years--first for dealing with loading and unloading sheet film on location shoots and more recently for loading developing tanks. In addition to being fairly large it also has a metal frame that holds the bag off your hands when you are loading reels or sheet film holders. This helps a lot with the problem of sweating hands, although it will still get warm if you're in there for a long time.

I agree with you about used reels--they are frequently bent and will never load properly.

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That's all fair enough, but many new users of film have absolutely no intention of wet-printing their negatives, nor of bothering to acquire the skills/equipment to do so. In fact they probably have no clue that darkroom work exists or existed at all.

 

It seems a lot of the attraction of film use to millenials and hipsters is in how 'cool' it makes them look to be seen using a film camera. Just as long as it's obviously a film camera, and not a perfectly serviceable but plastic-looking later model that might (horror of horrors) be mistaken for a digital camera.

 

Well, the Nikon Df seems to be for people who like the look and feel of film cameras, but want digital.

 

Reminds me, though, of someone on eBay selling a package of photographic paper. They showed all the sheets outside the envelope, so one could see exactly what they were bidding on. Even though it says "Open only in photographic darkroom".

 

As well as I know, in the pre-digital days, most people knew what a darkroom was, even if they never saw

the inside of one.

 

Sometimes they would be shown in movies or TV shows, though not always quite accurately.

 

Yes, I suspect that most people now interested in film were doing it years ago.

-- glen

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As well as I know, in the pre-digital days, most people knew what a darkroom was, even if they never saw

the inside of one.

 

Sometimes they would be shown in movies or TV shows, though not always quite accurately.

 

 

There's a popular TV show now that takes place in the 50s or 60s, and has a character who is a photographer.

Apparently, millennial viewers are mystified about what he does in "the red room."

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There's a popular TV show now that takes place in the 50s or 60s, and has a character who is a photographer.

Apparently, millennial viewers are mystified about what he does in "the red room."

 

I've taken a few people inside my darkroom...

 

One of the first questions is why it has to be completely dark when I'm handling film and why don't I "just use one of those red lights."

 

When it does come time to print, people also comment on the fact that my darkroom is "really bright but orange" and not dim red. I do have a couple of old Kodak red lights around, and after showing how dark they are I just explain that I prefer something a bit different for my darkroom. "Bright and orange" comes from the fact that I use a Thompson SOX safelight, which is indeed brighter than a filtered incandescent bulb, but monochromatic sodium yellow.

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I've taken a few people inside my darkroom...

 

One of the first questions is why it has to be completely dark when I'm handling film and why don't I "just use one of those red lights."

 

When it does come time to print, people also comment on the fact that my darkroom is "really bright but orange" and not dim red. I do have a couple of old Kodak red lights around, and after showing how dark they are I just explain that I prefer something a bit different for my darkroom. "Bright and orange" comes from the fact that I use a Thompson SOX safelight, which is indeed brighter than a filtered incandescent bulb, but monochromatic sodium yellow.

 

The darkroom at my high school was DARK. Black ceiling, walls and floor. It was hard to work in, because the only place where there was light was near the safelights. Every place else, you had to feel your way in the dark.

When I visited another high school's yearbook darkroom, I was SHOCKED. It was bright and easy to work in. If I dropped something on the floor, I could see and find it. The key was that the surfaces (walls, floor and ceiling) were NOT BLACK. It was white and light green (no idea why the light green). The light surfaces reflected the light from the safelight, rather than absorbed it.

 

So when I built my darkroom at my parent house, I used the lesson I learned. WHITE walls and floor.

The white walls and floor reflected a LOT of light. Two 7-1/2 watt safelights were all I needed, and it was plenty bright. 7-1/2 watts was the smallest bulb that I could buy. There were no dark spots anywhere. A couple of my classmates who came over were surprised at how bright my darkroom was, with such small bulbs in the safelights.

 

A few years ago, when I went to a local Community College darkroom, I noticed the same problem; BLACK ceiling, walls and floor.

 

If you do not have light leaks, you do NOT need a BLACK darkroom.

If you have light leaks, you fix the light leaks.

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The darkroom at my high school was DARK. Black ceiling, walls and floor. It was hard to work in, because the only place where there was light was near the safelights. Every place else, you had to feel your way in the dark.

When I visited another high school's yearbook darkroom, I was SHOCKED. It was bright and easy to work in. If I dropped something on the floor, I could see and find it. The key was that the surfaces (walls, floor and ceiling) were NOT BLACK. It was white and light green (no idea why the light green). The light surfaces reflected the light from the safelight, rather than absorbed it.

 

So when I built my darkroom at my parent house, I used the lesson I learned. WHITE walls and floor.

The white walls and floor reflected a LOT of light. Two 7-1/2 watt safelights were all I needed, and it was plenty bright. 7-1/2 watts was the smallest bulb that I could buy. There were no dark spots anywhere. A couple of my classmates who came over were surprised at how bright my darkroom was, with such small bulbs in the safelights.

 

A few years ago, when I went to a local Community College darkroom, I noticed the same problem; BLACK ceiling, walls and floor.

 

If you do not have light leaks, you do NOT need a BLACK darkroom.

If you have light leaks, you fix the light leaks.

You're right about white walls and ceilings in darkrooms--if you don't have light leaks and/or bad safelights it works much better. In the darkrooms I've had, though, I have always painted the wall behind the enlarger and the ceiling overhead flat black to minimize any possible reflections or light leaks from around negative carriers. This isn't a problem with my Zone VI enlarger but it was with the Omega D 2 that I used for many years.

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The darkroom at my high school was DARK. Black ceiling, walls and floor. It was hard to work in, because the only place where there was light was near the safelights. Every place else, you had to feel your way in the dark.

When I visited another high school's yearbook darkroom, I was SHOCKED. It was bright and easy to work in. If I dropped something on the floor, I could see and find it. The key was that the surfaces (walls, floor and ceiling) were NOT BLACK. It was white and light green (no idea why the light green). The light surfaces reflected the light from the safelight, rather than absorbed it.

 

(snip)

 

My darkroom was built by the previous house owner. It is pretty small, but has four safelights,

so it covers well. Then I changed one to a #13 safelight, which is pretty close to dark brown.

 

With only the #13 on, I once dropped some paper on the floor, but couldn't find it. It is enough to find

and use the paper cutter, enlarger, and developing trays. That is for Panalure and for color paper

like Endura. I mostly used it with Panalure.

 

It also has a big #3 (dark green) safelight, which I have never used.

 

I even have a filter (from a thrift store) #10, which is darker than the #13, but haven't tried that one.

 

Otherwise, the darkroom is light on some walls and dark on some other ones.

-- glen

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You're right about white walls and ceilings in darkrooms--if you don't have light leaks and/or bad safelights it works much better. In the darkrooms I've had, though, I have always painted the wall behind the enlarger and the ceiling overhead flat black to minimize any possible reflections or light leaks from around negative carriers. This isn't a problem with my Zone VI enlarger but it was with the Omega D 2 that I used for many years.

 

Black around the enlarger makes sense, as that would also eliminate reflection from the paper, as you print, so maximize printing contrast.

 

Yes I remember the D2. Some times the condenser did not sit FLAT on the carrier, and the light would leak out from in-between.

It has been too many years, I don't remember if the head also leaked light.

OK there was the dumb move when someone would open the condenser door, with the enlarger ON. ARGH!!! Talk about a light leak.

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