Leica M6 Replacement

I'm a long time Leica M6 owner that's ready to resort to digital photography for a multitude of reasons, not the least of which is I don't really relish the photo finishing process and no longer have room for my down darkroom. What I'm most interested in is getting a digital camera that conforms as closely as possible to the Henri Cartier-Bresson school of 'street photography' in the same sprit as the Leica M6. I guess I tend to be most interested in maybe finding an "M" mount compatible digital and putting something like a Voigtlander 40mm 1.4 on it - if such a thing is even feasible. This is just an example - if a camera configured with a built in (or included) lens fills the bill, so be it... but let's just say a "retro feel" is a plus, but not at the expense of functionality. I guess I'd hope to keep the total cost under 1.5 or 2k, again, if feasible.

 

Obviously I have plenty of my own homework to do, but any nudges/suggestions would be appreciated!

 

Thanks in advance,

Al

The closest I can think of is the new M-E, based on the M240, but with a lower price and larger buffer. It might be out of your budget, but you already have the lenses. You might have to sell the M6, perhaps.

 

Otherwise, let me think... the Fuji X-Pro 3 is due to be released soon. So maybe be a little patient and compare that to the M-E.

Not to throw a wrench in, but is there any way you could outsource the lab work? It sounds like you still prefer film.

You could probably buy a(n ab)used M9 for about 2K (KEH "BGN" right now). Noise (audible shutter recocking) and bad 90+x mm focusing aside it should handle quite similar to your M6. - If one likes the half stop shutter dial clicks and no hard stop for them, is a question of taste. M9 isn't the latest & greatest digital M body and Leica probably not exactly the bang for the buck brand... But it should take pictures well enough, to compete with film. Caveat: senor corrosion might happen and replacement will cost another grand combined with a CLA.

 

The Fuji X-Pro# bodies Karim mentioned are cute rangefinder like looking digitals and produce presentable straight out of camera JPEGs.

getting a digital camera that conforms as closely as possible to the Henri Cartier-Bresson school of 'street photography' in the same sprit as the Leica M6.

Is something that I'm challenged to understand. I could load my M4-P, mount a 50mm, walk around & snap semi zone focused; hoping to either have guessed right or be swift enough. I could do eactly the same with a digital M body.

If I grabbed a Canon DSLR instead I would (according to my personal impression) not make more noise than with digital rangefinders and with previously placed AF spot I'd be able to acquire focus quite (IMHO manually unbeatable) swiftly. - With some Sony mirrorless cameras I could even rely on their eye detection AF and would not need to worry about AF spot placement. - Both approaches should be a little bit more likely to nail decissive moments at wider apertures than fiddling with an RF.

 

Adapting Voigtländer lenses on a MILC would to me feel as sluggish as trying to shoot my old Mamiya TLR, utilizing the flip in extra magnifier inside the chimney finder. You could rely on focus indicator inside your EVF at preset working aperture. - AFAIK thats not entirely accurate . focusing wide open and stopping down manually before you take a shot coasts time. - Activating EVF magnification for precision focus deactivating it stopping down and reframing takes too long for spontaneous street work.

Why buy a 40/1.4 to zone focus it stopped down?

I'd rather toss a stabilized Tamron 45/1.8 on an not overly expensive EOS or get something for my MILC of choice in it's native mount.

 

FTR: I am not familiar with CV's 40mms; I'm shooting 50mm 'crons or a 35mm Hexanon. I bought digital Ms because RF focusing works better for me than manual SLR shooting around the wider end and I had the glass. - Putting anything RF lens, wider than 50mm on an adapted MILC without sensor filter modification (about $500) is unlikely to work well. An autofocusing adapter for m-mount to Sony is available but in the same price range as a bread and butter prime.

 

Summary: A digital Leica would be in your reach.

To just take street photos, (results, not process focused) I'd buy something else these days.

 

Sorry I can't help with Sony vs Fuji. My Fujis are too old and slowly auto focusing, to pass as street cameras in my eyes. Performance of their newer f2 primes on more recent bodies might be well enough. - I can't afford that stuff right now, so I didn't dive into its reviews.

 

Making up your mind on your best 2 grand Sony option might take a while too. Will an APS body be enough? Do you need IBIS? (I'd love to have it but I am more the indoors events than street shooter.)

Maybe try a used Fuji XE series body first, with your Leica lenses, just to see how it feels? Should be able to find a nice XE1 for under 200€/£/$ then sell it again if you don't like.

 

I could never afford a Leica, but I loved my 35mm rangefinders. I now have an XE1, with focus peaking (requires a firmware update) and 'preview exposure in manual mode' turned OFF, it's perfectly possible to compose and focus with the lens stopped down, though not quite as good as a real split image. The X series Fujis feel like 'proper' cameras.

 

Given your budget, it's worth a try, no?

Thanks everyone, as I feared, some serious soul searching is in order - mostly along the lines of determining what it is/was about the M6 I care about the most and hope to see reimagined in another beast (if that turns out to even be possible.) Thanks for the suggestions and alternatives - there were several great ideas and options I hadn't considered. Greatful to have you guys as resources!

Fuji XPRO-2 seems a good choice if a digital Leica is beyond your means. It has an optical viewfinder and is definitely some kind of modern take on a Leica M. If you think an optical viewfinder is not such a big deal for you then you can go to the Fuji XEs or Sony 6000s, or Olympus Pen-F, all of which are M-like in size and the XE and Pen-F, at least, are retro in concept.

Nikon Coolpix A (with an optional viewfinder) or a cellphone?

The obvious solution is to replace the M6 with a digital M. All of your present lenses fit without adapters, and focusing is pretty much the same. Magnification of the finder is often low (0.68x) to accommodate a 28 mm frame line, at the expense of focusing accuracy. Compatibility is somewhat limited by the thick (1 mm) cover glass over the sensor, which causes a purple vignetting to occur and loss of resolution in the corners. These effects are offset in firmware, but only if you manually enter the lens model, or the lenses are coded. The classic DR Summicron 50/2 will not fit, due to interference with internal structures and the rangefinder roller.

 

I use two features in the M9 which approximate the sound and feel of the older cameras. The "Quiet" mode delays rewinding the shutter until you let up the shutter release. The "Soft" mode removes the step in the shutter release, so that it feels like a film camera. Winding an M camera was never very quiet, but could be delayed until a more discrete moment.

I wanted to try a Leica M after having used my M2 for years. I could not afford a recent model so bought an M8, trying to close out all the internet criticisms. It is my favourite camera now, superb at black and white, really nice colours. The CCD sensor gives a rendering which is filmic, the guys at Kodak who built the sensor were essentially film people. The shutter sound I like, again it reminds me of a film camera. On this camera I use my old screw thread lenses, Leica, Voightlander and Soviet, as well as a couple of Summicrons. Even the 7 Artisans 35mm and 50mm satisfy me and they are 6 bit coded. You might feel you have to put on IR/cut filters which I have bought second hand but try shooting without them first to see if you need them. The camera cost £900 from my usual dealer who gives a 6 month guarantee, this reassured me as I was more nervous about buying this camera than any other. It has performed faultlessly but if it were to pack up in the future it would still have been worth it for the fun and the experience I have had with it. I might replace it with an M9 in the future purely because I like to try new cameras. My dealer has several M9,s in stock including one, for under £2000 ,with a sensor replaced in 2018, this seems like a reasonable precaution to take. Every time I use my M8 it gives me joy and what price on that?. Good luck with finding your new camera, all the best, Charles.

Get the M10-D. It doesn't have a screen so it's closer to the M6 except it still have aperture priority mode and an electronically controlled shutter. It even has a non functioning film advance level.

I have recently returned from a family get together in Suffolk. For events I use a D4, on holidays I pack my Panasonic MFT gear but this time I decided on something different. In a small Billingham I carried a Bessa R with Voightlander 35 and my M8 with Summicron 50. With an adapter I could use the 35 on my digital. During the week I took far less images than usual but really enjoyed my photography. To take decent snaps of my new grandson with this outfit was a challenge as he chased around the farm after the cattle and horses, as a toddler he can move fast. Perhaps keep the M6 and match it with an M9, switching lenses, for a great rangefinder experience. All the best, Charles.

The price of Leica really forces your hand and most of us. If its the black & white look of the HCB days your longing for, I don't see why Fuji's don't fit the bill. I would keep the ball in the air with Fuji's, the X-Pro3 suggestion has a lot to it. Study what these cameras do, there are many film modes and methods to increase decrease contrast to suit the subject and conditions making the process a very versatile creative one. Bottom line I think Fuji has hit the mark in providing the most flexible, versatile creative Photographic tool of our time. I didn't get that you may or may not have a Leica lens arsenal with your M6. If you have multiple Leica lenses, that changes my equation in that a newer Digital M would be the logical choice, but then theres that math thing. An X-Pro3 with Fujicrons is a sure bet. I don't know if you know but Fuji's glass are superb. Like anything else, there not all jewels, theres the need to hand pick, but unfortunately when entering the digital realm there's this fanaticism to pixel peek of which within these forums become weaponized for one upsmanship in conversation. One method I used to balance out my decisions between the two, Leica, Fuji, was to scour flickr Fuji Photos and just look at the images, hundreds, to see the differences, or weigh out what is or what isn't desirable in the look. A task that seems impossible because there are so many variants inherent because of the in camera tools available in Fuji cameras, but stick with it and you can find a theme at least that either suits your taste or not. I think in general when hitting the right settings Fuji has more of a film look. The film look can be diffused, but it can also be enhanced. As for the APS-C verses full frame issue, the lack of a AA filter in Fuji pretty much mutes the argument. I think that argument died a couple of years ago.

As attractive as the M-E (240) is, I am not seriously tempted by it, For me, that ship has sailed, and the reasons are summarized below.

 

My second honeymoon with Leica (M9 vs M2/M3) lasted about one year, after 15 years of Nikons. I was looking at mirrorless cameras for a greater range of lenses and electronic viewfinder for precise framing and focus. At the time, only Sony made a full frame sensor, but the original A7 was totally uderwhelming. The A7ii made all the difference, with in-body image stabilization, a silent shutter option, and compatibility with nearly every lens made. Having built a collection of native-Sony lenses, there's no going back, but there's nothing I see as better, were I to make the decision today. The size and weight of a Sony A7xxx is nearly identical to that of an M9. A full-frame camera has better choices for wide angle lenses, which is what Leica style photography is all about.

 

I have a set of Zeiss Loxia lenses, from 21/2.8 mm to a superb 85/2.8, which are completely manual and about the same size as their Leica counterparts. They are small, black and unobtrusive, and nearly ideal for street and travel photography. I'm not into "candid" photography, but manual lenses are ideal for landscapes, which I love. I can carry four lenses in a small belt pouch, and the fifth on the camera. Zoom lenses are nice too, and were never an option with Leica. Every view is "live," and every lens fills the frame without a special finder.

 

There are more choices now, including several new brands of FF cameras. You probably can't go wrong with any of them, if you remember you are buying into a system, not just a camera. Most of your investment will be in lenses, which fortunately outlast several bodies (in terms of features). Sony isn't standing still either.

If the goal is to use adapted lenses, I'd seriously suggest the Fuji XE cameras rather than the XPRO, they're essentially the same hardware, but with a better evf, which is the key, as the clever hybrid viewfinder of the XPRO only works with Fuji's af lenses, so if you're going to be using it in evf mode, you might as well save some money and get the equivalent XE body.

 

As I said above, if you just want to give things a try, grab a used XE body and Fuji's Leica-X adaptor, should come in at under 200 of whatever currency if you shop around.

@BeBu: Seriously? - It might be fun camera looking, but although I was confident about burning film according to my hand held meter readings, I must say that at least the CCDs in my older Ms (8 & Monochrom) have less exposure latitude and the metering in the Ms doesn't compete with the matrix stuff seen in DSLRs or MILCs. I need my screens for histogram chimping and wouldn't like to sacrifice them. - Only imaginable exception: Maybe on a 3rd carried body (Assuming the others had similar sensors). Talking about chimping: The Ms' frame lines aren't always overly exact There are shots where I like the ability to chimp to recheck my framing but yes, HCB inspired work might not need that. - Since Leica charge extra for "no screen" I'll happily buy screens from them.

 

While you probably can run "Erich Salomon shot worse (gear)" as a mantra through your head, while trying to do the HCB thing with adapted fully manual glass on a MILC, it won't reduce the number of missed / not takeable shots.

 

The Fuji X-Pro finder doesn't really convince me. - It is a huge compromise. You get the option to use it as an old fashioned P&S with an OVF and no clue what the AF lens is doing. As an alternative you can switch to a not overly high resolving EVF, which should suck with manual focusing. The hybrid setting is a tad nastier than having a huge lens (hood) covering a Leica VF, I think you get a corner of the VF filled with an EVF displaying the image center spot. I guess shooting that way takes time to get used to; OTOH it will work around the in low light on older Fujis considerable EVF lag. - Its been a while since I handled an X-Pro2 at the mall. - I wasn't overly impressed by it but it had a slow AFing lens mounted.

as I feared, some serious soul searching is in order

Once you got it done, prepare for several trips to a mall with camera petting area. There is a lot of stuff out these days that I wouldn't any longer dare to recommend blindfolded. Briefing you to shoot a different film camera took few minutes. With digital you might have to hit menus and doing so can feel right or not and when it doesn't, you might never become really happy with that camera. Even the pre-M10 Leicas are a bit annoying. I wish they had a dial or 5 buttons to pick custom set lens profiles on top and yes also something to dial in ISO or exposure compensation directly. At least their menus are comparably nice and not overly cluttered. IMHO Leica compromised towards "retro", sacrificing "shooting machine" traits. - Besides the annoying need to hit the menu a PC sync socket feels missing too and the information visible inside the viewfinder is a bit insufficient. - For example it would be nice to see, which auto ISO the camera is picking.

Once you are past "would I like to shoot this", it might also be nice to have a friend moving 1' back and forth to focus on and get (more or less) impressed by your candidate's AF performance.

While AF sucked in the early days, it came a long way in some cameras. Since I regret neglecting that feature in some of my previous purchases I can't stress enough how worth checking it is.

@BeBu: Seriously? - It might be fun camera looking, but although I was confident about burning film according to my hand held meter readings, I must say that at least the CCDs in my older Ms (8 & Monochrom) have less exposure latitude and the metering in the Ms doesn't compete with the matrix stuff seen in DSLRs or MILCs. I need my screens for histogram chimping and wouldn't like to sacrifice them. - Only imaginable exception: Maybe on a 3rd carried body (Assuming the others had similar sensors). Talking about chimping: The Ms' frame lines aren't always overly exact There are shots where I like the ability to chimp to recheck my framing but yes, HCB inspired work might not need that. - Since Leica charge extra for "no screen" I'll happily buy screens from them.

 

While you probably can run "Erich Salomon shot worse (gear)" as a mantra through your head, while trying to do the HCB thing with adapted fully manual glass on a MILC, it won't reduce the number of missed / not takeable shots.

 

The Fuji X-Pro finder doesn't really convince me. - It is a huge compromise. You get the option to use it as an old fashioned P&S with an OVF and no clue what the AF lens is doing. As an alternative you can switch to a not overly high resolving EVF, which should suck with manual focusing. The hybrid setting is a tad nastier than having a huge lens (hood) covering a Leica VF, I think you get a corner of the VF filled with an EVF displaying the image center spot. I guess shooting that way takes time to get used to; OTOH it will work around the in low light on older Fujis considerable EVF lag. - Its been a while since I handled an X-Pro2 at the mall. - I wasn't overly impressed by it but it had a slow AFing lens mounted.

 

Once you got it done, prepare for several trips to a mall with camera petting area. There is a lot of stuff out these days that I wouldn't any longer dare to recommend blindfolded. Briefing you to shoot a different film camera took few minutes. With digital you might have to hit menus and doing so can feel right or not and when it doesn't, you might never become really happy with that camera. Even the pre-M10 Leicas are a bit annoying. I wish they had a dial or 5 buttons to pick custom set lens profiles on top and yes also something to dial in ISO or exposure compensation directly. At least their menus are comparably nice and not overly cluttered. IMHO Leica compromised towards "retro", sacrificing "shooting machine" traits. - Besides the annoying need to hit the menu a PC sync socket feels missing too and the information visible inside the viewfinder is a bit insufficient. - For example it would be nice to see, which auto ISO the camera is picking.

Once you are past "would I like to shoot this", it might also be nice to have a friend moving 1' back and forth to focus on and get (more or less) impressed by your candidate's AF performance.

While AF sucked in the early days, it came a long way in some cameras. Since I regret neglecting that feature in some of my previous purchases I can't stress enough how worth checking it is.

 

I am serious about the M10-D. If I like the rangefinder like the OP I would buy it. It does have the meter though. You can still chimp but you shouldn't need to chimp. If someone makes an SLR like the M10-D that is except for being a manual focus rangefinder it's a manual focus SLR. No screen, no P no S mode. I would love that.

The M10-D currently sells for $8,000 at B&H, which may be a consideration!

 

I think this come down to what is important to you. If you have a collection of M lenses and really like manual rangefinder focus, then it may be worth the money to get a digital M, though even an M9 may exceed your budget. A used Sony A7ii may be a really nice platform to use your M lenses (with some limitations with super WA lenses), and should be within your budget, though you now have an EVF to frame and focus vs an M rangefinder. If using M lenses is not important, then there are almost limitless options in DSLRs, mirrorless, and fixed lens digital cameras to choose from.

Just a last comment from me, if anyone is interested in a Leica M8 or M9 look for the You Tube channel My Leica M8, presented by an excellent gentleman called Hugo who documents his experiences with his M8 and M9. The initial question contained a wish to keep to a stated budget, that is sufficient for an M9 or for an M8 and lens. I have more advanced cameras that, even taking in to account my limited skills, hardly produce a bad shot so why do I so enjoy my old Leica? All the best to you whatever camera you have, Charles.

My Leica M6 replacement is a Sony a6000. I used it for a couple of years with a Sony 35mm 1.8 lens (equivalent to the 50mm full frame). I met a pro photographer in my neighborhood who was using the very excellent Sony/Zeiss 16-70mm 4.0 and went right out and ordered one. Fantastic lens, small and versatile, and very sharp. I don't miss Leica at all.

I have stuck my M6 on a wall as a decorative piece. M and R lenses still do excellent servive on an Olypus Pen F, No space consuming fake prism on top and commendably silent.

Focussing is a problem though. No need for looking at the back of the camera as with other digitals,, A look through viewfindeer like you are used to with a focussing aid. However, The focus point and spot metering point supposed to sit in the middle, where you instantly obtain a selectable 14x magnicfication. although more accurate than the split image of the Ms or even better than the visoflex II, , moves in unpredictable ways when you hold the camera and unavoidabl ypress the inconvenient rear wheel.

 

An extra bonus of the Pen F is a 50mp+ high resoulution mode that Leicas lenses can take in their stride (tripod or firm foundation needed) A bonus of the last 80.200 R is that it acts like a macro at the longest setting. In camera stabilization by jiggling the sensor actially works to provide stable hand held shots.. The summicron 50 version iV that originally came withe M6 will continue to serve you well.

 

BUT,. if you use the super angulon, be prepared to encounter difficulties. The 35mm might not like the 4mm thick cover glassses in front of the sensor, Leica has put in a vey thin version and rearranged the sensor to be less sensitive to skew rays, so for wider glass (not the retrofoci\us R wides) M9 might serve you better. The leicas have the advantage of not having a myriad of buttons that need pressing. Raw files give you the same opportunities to pull or push development as juggling developer concentration, timing and agitation, only easier and fasteron the computer.

 

p.

I'm a long time Leica M6 owner that's ready to resort to digital photography for a multitude of reasons, ... I'm most interested in is getting a digital camera that conforms as closely as possible to the Henri Cartier-Bresson school of 'street photography' in the same spirit as the Leica M6. I guess I tend to be most interested in maybe finding an "M" mount compatible digital and putting something like a Voigtlander 40mm 1.4 on it - if such a thing is even feasible. ... I guess I'd hope to keep the total cost under 1.5 or 2k, again, if feasible. ...

If you're selling your M6 and adding up to $2.0k to get to your budget, then IMHO your only solution is a pre-owned M9 or M/M-P 240, which can be had in that price range. But - of you're comfortable with that, I'd spend the very little extra and get the M-E 240 (it's new and covered under warranty).

 

One more piece of advice: Take the time and expense to have all of your M mount lenses 6-bit coded. The time and effort will increase your satisfaction 10-fold. Don Goldberg ("DAG") has a source for all M-mount lenses. Cost is around $75 per flange (plus shipping).

 

On a side-note - my only caution on the M9 would that you make sure the sensor has been replaced (the seller would have documentation form Leica). I've owned both the M9 and M240 and can tell you, although I love my M-P 240, the colors produced by the M9 are far better - and the files are more "film-like" in character.

 

Leica M9, 50mm Noctilux

One more piece of advice: Take the time and expense to have all of your M mount lenses 6-bit coded. The time and effort will increase your satisfaction 10-fold. Don Goldberg ("DAG") has a source for all M-mount lenses. Cost is around $75 per flange (plus shipping).

Plus 1 on coding lenses.

 

At the time, there weren't any third parties to do this. Leica would only code Leica lenses, and not necessarily ones of my vintage. It is a royal PITA to enter lens data manually.

I'm starting to think that the M240 could easily be improved simply by applying a colour profile (or LUT) to the images. That won't make it exactly like the M9, but close enough so that it won't matter. Of course I haven't tried this but someone ought to do an experiment.

Enthusiastic user of an M262 here......still image digital photography only. No live view, no movies, and no using an EVF. Rangefinder photography-only. Fantastic battery life. I love it. Have a full set of M lenses, from 18mm to 135mm that all focus accurately and keep me happy.

 

+2 on the 6-bit coding-thing.

 

28mm f2,8 Elmarit ASPH this morning..

 

 

90mm f2 Summicron from the mid-80's that I had 6-bit coded, at f4 this morning..

 

Edited July 26, 2019 by Greg M