Zabriskie Point-5053a

Shouldn't the "artist" be doing something more than lavishly and gloriously documenting reality?

It’s not about a should or shouldn’t. It’s about possibilities.

"artist"

Why did you put artist in quotes?

It's coming into the season in which I select images to be entered into the photography contest at this year's State Fair. I did quite well last year (surprisingly), and I have high hopes for this year. Based on all your feedback I think this is one of the images that will be entered. In particular I think I'll work some of Leslie's detail suggestions to refine this to the Nth degree. I'm afraid the entry requirements will prevent the alternate, 1:1 format. Print sizes and proportions are strictly defined. I'm ever so grateful for all of your feedback and input. Even those with whom I may not agree add perspective and insight. I love and appreciate this interaction. Thank you, my friends, for engaging with me in this exploration, and for allowing me to engage with you.

I’m still left thinking about: what is the difference between a place and the picture of a place?

Sam, your question was the direct subject of an entire course in Architecture school, titled "Theory of Representation". An image of a person, place, or thing can only be a finite representation of the subject, and can be manipulated in myriad ways to reflect a given perspective or perception of the subject. My own goals relative to my landscape images are focused on communicating the wonder of my own experience in the places I photograph. Others will have different purposes, certainly, with techniques and perspectives defined by those purposes. As we keep telling one another: there's no single "right" answer. I guess this is why I find photography so engaging, there are as many right answers in this discipline as there are in Architecture. Thanks, again, for your input.

It’s not about a should or shouldn’t. It’s about possibilities.

 

Why did you put artist in quotes?

 

I was thinking of my realist artist friend, that thought of himself as less than a complete artist because his only successful work was as a realist.

I was thinking of my realist artist friend, that thought of himself as less than a complete artist because his only successful work was as a realist.

His realism or lack of it wouldn’t make him more or less of an artist. When he stops worrying about that, he’ll be free to be the artist he wants to be, if he wants to be one.

my realist artist friend, that thought of himself as less than a complete artist because his only successful work was as a realist.

I think the key thought here is the idea of "successful" art. In the case of a professional artist who makes his living through his art, one category of successful would be marketability and financial success. For a dilettante like me, success is much more in my own eyes, though I do not discount the opinions of others when seeking critique. I could spend days and weeks bemoaning the fact that I never made a name for myself as an Architect of post-modern monuments or high-modern residences, but that would be a waste of time and tears. Rather, while I can be wistful about all the projects I've not had the opportunity to do, I'm much better off focusing on the areas where I have become a respected and effective professional. I suspect Dave's artist friend feels likewise, in that he'd have liked to be known for a greater variety of work, but I suspect he'll not be too sad to have put food on the table and a roof over his head through his realist art. I'd like to be a better portraitist, but it's unlikely to happen unless I make it a focus. I'm quite happy doing landscapes, thank you.

His realism or lack of it wouldn’t make him more or less of an artist. When he stops worrying about that, he’ll be free to be the artist he wants to be, if he wants to be one.

 

Sadly, he has passed and I don't think that inner conflict was ever resolved. Clearly, to outside observers, he was a complete artist. Any feelings of shortcoming were entirely internal.

Sadly, he has passed and I don't think that inner conflict was ever resolved. Clearly, to outside observers, he was a complete artist. Any feelings of shortcoming were entirely internal.

And, often, feelings of shortcomings are a form of inspiration to move ahead, to change, or to seek new inspirations. Of course, they can also hold one back. But inner conflict is surely what drives a lot of art and artists and that’s a realism as much as any other kind of realism. I don’t love the whole idea of realism, as a matter of fact. I mean, Van Gogh’s swirls and painting textures weren’t exactly realism but they actually are probably a very real and accurate picture of how he saw the world and how one can see the world when one looks at it differently. Different is not unreal and inaccurate is not unreal either. Artificial is not unreal. Unnatural is not unreal. Conflict, to me, has a stronger and more passionate reality than beauty which, again personally, I see as more ideal than real, though I certainly recognize the reality of beauty in the world.

Sorry for the loss of your friend. He sounds like a great guy.

Sorry for the loss of your friend. He sounds like a great guy.

 

Yes, he was, and brilliant in many ways. The demons he suffered seemed to always start within and then become self-fulfilling. While suffering in his final years, he hid from his friends, too proud to be seen as weak. ;-(

Overall, I love the image. It brings back fond memories of visiting Death Valley many times, beginning when my parents brought me there when I was a child.

 

Here are a few specific comments:

1. I agree with Leslie that the image is tilted a bit to the right. I never noticed until I read her comment. Badwater Basin in the background, which alternately floods and evaporates is, by nature, horizontal.

2. But, I disagree with Leslie about the strong blue color of the background mountains. I think that the blue is too dominant and that decreasing the blue saturation would help give the photograph a little more aerial perspective.

3. Cropping the image in order to reduce or eliminate the blank sky is a good idea. But, like Supriyo, I would not crop out the distant peaks. The cropped image should still fit well in a 1:1 format. I would not eliminate the highest peak, Telescope Mountain, accentuated by the bit of snow on it's summit.

4. I also really like the black and white version, but suggest that you play with black and white filters. A green filter, for instance, can reduce the luminance and contrast of the background mountains, while a red filter can do the opposite and make the image appear more two-dimensional. Using a strong blue filter can almost make the mountains disappear! - not that I would recommend making them disappear.

Edited June 9, 2019 by Glenn McCreery

The blue in the background is what bothers me about the image. I like the square crop that eliminates the bland sky and at least some of the background. I took the liberty to play with the image a bit in ACR as well as ON1 with the goal to tone down the blue and the highlights and bring out the colors more; here's the result:

 

I also took the liberty of playing with the image, in my case with Photoshop CS5. I reduced the blue saturation, straightened Badwater Basin using "warp", cropped to reduce the blank sky, and fit the image in a square format by changing the aspect ratio. I like more subtle colors for the desert scene than Dieter. Edited June 9, 2019 by Glenn McCreery

If I do a straight conversion to black and white using NIK SilverEfex, this is what I get.

Edited June 9, 2019 by Glenn McCreery

The blue in the background is what bothers me about the image. I like the square crop that eliminates the bland sky and at least some of the background. I took the liberty to play with the image a bit in ACR as well as ON1 with the goal to tone down the blue and the highlights and bring out the colors more; here's the result:

 

 

I like the adjustment to the blue here, but I think that you did a global adjustment, resulting in too much red in the near field. Also, I'd straighten Badwater Basin. (Even if the original is actually correct, landmarks sometimes mislead the eye and need to be "straightened" to remove a distracting element).

 

I love that so many are diving into this image in-depth, bringing this sub-forum real life.

but I think that you did a global adjustment, resulting in too much red in the near field.

Actually, I did both a local and a global adjustment. Blue saturation was reduced in ACR and blue luminance increased; the shift to warmer colors was a global adjustment in ON1 Effects. There was also some tonal adjustment of highlights (darkened) and midtones (darkened).

I wonder if you have seen the movie 'Zabriskie Point' by Michelangelo Antonioni.

Supriyo, I found it on YouTube and tried to watch. Not much in the way of cinegraphic quality to recommend it.

 

Dieter, I like your take, though the changes in tone have lost much of the sense of the stark desert light. The mountains in the far background are certainly better resolved. Glenn's two options are also engaging. The less saturated colors are fine, and might even be more accurate. In both the less saturated and B&W versions it is the extraordinary detail which keeps the image interesting. All the rest is really more personal preference, which I like to see.

 

Thanks again to everyone who has contributed to this thread. It has been a fascinating journey, and I have learned so much from all of you.

Of the various versions, I like the original best, but cropped to remove the sky area. I think it has the best balance of color, detail and saturation.

In the interest of follow-through, here are two alternate evolutions of this image. Both have been formatted in the 11x14 proportions that will be required for my anticipated entry. I've made several adjustments in conjunction with the crop(s), mostly to address the overpowering blues in the deep background, and to try and better control the very bright reflections off the sand and gravel in the foreground wash. I've also tried to consider as many of the excellent recommendations made in this thread, at least to the degree they are not mutually exclusive or anathema to my vision for the photo. Please consider these two:

 

As always, any further feedback or comments are sincerely appreciated, though I understand if we've all tired of this thread and it's time to move on to the next. Thanks, again, for participating!

Wow, that vertical crop contains all the elements of the original yet puts them all into a context that blends well, doesn't distract and eliminates all unnecessary aspects and viewpoints. The sight line leads one naturally from near to far, with the color gradations and distances in sequential harmony, the blueish tones in the middle ground right of center, mirroring the distant mountains and the sky above.

 

The wider crop brings us more into the dramatic foreground, and leads us out into the flat expanse of the lake bed as we follow the meandering pathway established by the "wash", Both of these are great.

established by the "wash"

Just for the record, this is actually a dry wash, arroyo, or wadi, depending on which continent you're from, part of Gower Gulch. It is not a lava flow or other type feature. This area had recently seen substantial rainfall, with the resulting sharp cuts and lines in the sand and gravel of the wash. There had not yet passed sufficient time for wind or foot traffic to knock the sharp edges off the erosion features. Thanks so much for the kind words and analysis!

Wow, that vertical crop contains all the elements of the original yet puts them all into a context that blends well, doesn't distract and eliminates all unnecessary aspects and viewpoints. The sight line leads one naturally from near to far, with the color gradations and distances in sequential harmony, the blueish tones in the middle ground right of center, mirroring the distant mountains and the sky above.

 

The wider crop brings us more into the dramatic foreground, and leads us out into the flat expanse of the lake bed as we follow the meandering pathway established by the "wash", Both of these are great.

 

I see this too. I think the vertical crop tell the whole story and has better balance between the elements.

Original post was my favorite. Unreal of the blue in the mountains felt fitting and expressive. Final post feels documentary and more mundane. Depends what you're after. Very different photos. Neither is right. Glad you allowed yourself to play with it different ways. What others do with it is their vision not yours. I'm much more interested in seeing you work it out since it's yours. Thanks for letting us in on your process.