Is acute matte so much better

<p>In reply to Ingemar's response above:</p>

<p>I would also add that you need to be careful not to buy an old used standard screen being sold as the used Acute Matte screen whether the "D" version or the non-D version.</p>

...

<p>The older acute matte screens will have faint white crosshairs or they will be a split image with grid lines. That's it. They only made two types of original acute matte screens and those are it. I see on eBay daily where sellers ( who do not know the gear ) sell the old screens and call them "acute matte" screens simply because they have a box that says acute matte on it. The acute matte got put into the camera and the old screen got put into the box and now they are selling it as an acute matte because they have no idea what the difference is.</p>

<p>So it is definitely "buyer beware" when buying a Hasselblad screen on the used market.</p>

<p>If you see a screen that has dark black crosshairs then you can know it is the old original standard screen. A good enough screen for sure...but the acute mattes sell for significantly more money usually.</p>

 

 

I see a lot of screens for sale where I cannot see "faint white crosshairs" in the posted pic of the screen - they say they are Acute Matte screens. No dark lines, it just looks like an unmarked screen.

 

Should I be able to see the faint lines in a typical for sale photo? Or is buying one just a waste of time and postage to return it?

 

Thanks.

The last post to this thread was eight years ago, and I thought we covered this fairly extensively in your body/back repair thread, but anyway: the Acute Mattes are a big honking PITA to shop for on eBay, for several reasons.

 

Half the sellers wouldn't know an Acute Matte from their child's baby picture: they just buy out estates and list things as whatever the box indicates. Its been mentioned many many times over the years: back in the day, most buyers of Acute Matte upgrade screens simply put their original old dark black cross screen in the new AM box and filed it away. When they pass on, the non-Hassy-person who comes into possession of their gear just assumes the screen in the box matches the package, and eBay's oldest trap for photographers is sprung. Fortunately, the thick black painted cross is hard to miss in listing photographs: if the box says Acute Matte but the screen pictured with it clearly has a black cross on it, it ain't Acute Matte: pass, and look for another.

 

The genuine Acute Matte cross screen is not so easily identified, other than it NEVER has contrasty, easily-seen black lines on it. The AM cross in a micro-thin transparent engraving, which is almost impossible to photograph clearly for an eBay listing. If it comes with a box labeled part no. 41265, and the screen seems clear with no lines, chances are its the first (non-D) AM cross. If the box reads 42204, and the screen frame shows two little half circle cuts near a top corner, its the AM-D screen.

 

The other Acute Mattes are easier to identify in a pic because they ALL have a split image circle carved into their center: no matter how inept or reflective the listing pic, a split circle usually manages to be visible. There were only two versions: split with checkerboard grid lines, and split with microprism collar and 4 engraved cross bar spokes. The checker came in D and non-D, the other was made only as D (again, D is identified by frame cutouts). No Acute Matte ever had a diagonal split image: only horizontal.

 

There were two "prototype" bright screens Hasselblad sold briefly prior to Acute Matte. One was called the OptoFiber screen and it has no engravings or focus aids: completely clear. The other was called Bright Matte Screen: plain, with a small engraved center circle indicating the spot meter area of the meter prisms. This circle can seem to be a split image in photographs, which tricks people into thinking Acute Matte- it isn't. Ask questions, and look closely with the eBay magnifier: Acute Mattes only came as plain cross, split with checker grid, or split/micro/cross.. The OptoBright and Bright Matte are OK, but more quirky than Acute Matte. AM is somewhat annoying with the wide angle Distagons, but the OptoBrite and Bright Matte can be very annoying due to increased vignetting, rainbow reflections, etc. They were comparable to third-party BrightScreen and Beattie IntenScreen options.

Edited February 14, 2019 by orsetto

Thank you. The question I asked was not covered in the body/back repair thread. I understand re the black lines, and box mismatches. I assumed it would be best to revivify this more specific thread.

 

My question is whether the faint lines on a non-D Acute Matte plain cross screen should be easily seen in a typical for sale type photo.

 

From the "not so easily identified" text and sentence following, I infer the answer is no.

Let me try again, sorry if I strayed off topic earlier. There ARE a couple ways to narrow down whether an indistinct looking screen is Acute Matte. The easiest way is to vet the seller: if they primarily pitch themselves as a photographic equipment trader, or Hasselblad trader in particular, odds are you can trust the listing as legit. Check their feedback page and list of recently sold items. If 100% FB rating over past few months, most listings camera related, and their average description indicates they know a camera from a doorknob (and that a Hasselblad isn't a Nikon), they're likely OK.

 

The drawback to such sellers is you're much less likely to find a "bargain" AM screen thru them. They know what they have and what its worth. Occasionally, they may let a worn-looking AM cross screen go for under $90, but typically they'll price a decent specimen between $140- $200 ($229 or $250 for the D, not worth the premium IMO). Bargain hunting, to snag one between $80- $120, requires scavenging sellers who don't have any expertise or familiarity with Hasselblad (estate sales, my uncle just died, etc).

 

The trick with this type of seller is to glean more info without triggering their spidey-sense that the item is worth way more than they assumed. If their pictures don't clearly show the thin transparent cross, ask them to describe it to you. If they're willing to add another listing pic (or send you one via eBay message), ask them to shoot it from the dull side (bottom) instead of shiny side (top), i.e. "feet up". The cross is scribed on the dull side, which is less reflective and makes it easier to see (like my example in your other thread). It shows better if they don't use a flash to wash it out: angling it toward a window will usually make the cross "pop" in a pic.

 

As long as you can get a confirmed view of the thin cross, you're good to go. Nobody ever faked or knocked off this screen: only the genuine AM or AMD have a micro-thin engraved colorless center cross (virtually all the intentional and unintentional knockoffs have a split image). As you're already aware, a cross screen with the two tiny half moon frame cutouts is the D version (another dead giveaway its the real deal). If, after all these precautions the screen somehow still turns up as non-AM, eBay guarantees you can return it for full refund at the sellers expense (they must use the eBay return console to have eBay email you a prepaid return shipping label). Don't let a grouchy seller con you with their personal "no returns" policy: eBay permits this in listing text as a favor to sellers, but their over-riding enforced corporate policy is "the buyer is ALWAYS right".

Edited February 15, 2019 by orsetto

Lines in an Acute-Matte screen are embossed (raised) on the reverse side. There is no ink, but the lines appear dark and clearly visible when viewed with transmitted light. They're not hard to photograph, but it takes more technique than a cell phone with the screen laying on a flat surface.

Thanks. I know what to look for now, and how to vet.

 

BTW, I already see a misrepresented blac cross screen and an empty box for $5 starting bid...

 

I am familiar with old Porsches and people will often create equal or better parts for factory parts that are NLA -- seems no one has done this for these quality screens.

Edited February 15, 2019 by ralf11womba

I am familiar with old Porsches and people will often create equal or better parts for factory parts that are NLA -- seems no one has done this for these quality screens.

 

What you suggest has been done, but for various reasons ultimately did not work out. Prior to Acute Matte, there was a thriving rivalry between BriteScreen and Beattie Intenscreen as the only available screen upgrade mfrs for many cameras (not just Hasselblad). The problem is, they weren't really any cheaper than Acute Matte, so when that came out it pulled the rug out from under those companies. A huge chunk of their business was replacing the dungeon-dark original Hasselblad screens for pros: when Hasselblad introduced their own exclusive Acute Matte, it instantly became the gold standard for Hasselblad users. The remaining market was/is self-limiting: not that many photogs were willing to pay $200-$300 for a better screen back when that was a fraction of their camera cost, today few film cameras still in wide use are worth that sort of investment.

 

The AM was a hit because its brightness performance was optimized specifically for most Hasselblad lenses, and of course the precision of the metal frame height was a perfect match. The earlier third-party brighter screens could be dodgy with some Hassy lenses, and their frame height tended to be a hair off, which made focus accuracy a bit iffy for many users. The Acute Matte has its flaws, to be sure, but overall there's no better screen for a Hasselblad.

 

One possible exception might be a custom Hi Lux Ultra screen made by Bill Maxwell: I've seen one in a Rolleiflex TLR and it was marvelous, but I never had an opportunity to directly compare a Maxwell screen vs AM in a Hasselblad body. Maxwells are made to order and rather costly: $250 minimum depending on configuration. Rick Oleson seems to have bought the BrightScreen technology from its inventor's estate, and offers new BrightScreens for many cameras at a reasonable $80. But the only Hasselblad size he offers is an unframed version for the early 500c: no metal-frame screens for the more popular later bodies (I imagine he wants to steer clear of the imprecise frame mfg issue).

 

The only source for Acute Matte material was Minolta: once Konica/Minolta Camera Division tanked in 2006, that was the end of production (probably much earlier, 2003 latest). Other than Hasselblad 6x6 and certain Minolta 35mm SLRs, Acute Matte never became a mainstream commodity screen technology. The status of the Konica/Minolta AM patent is unclear: dormant, or licensed to another firm for non-photographic purposes? For the past decade, at least, its been strictly a second-hand market.

Edited February 16, 2019 by orsetto

With the current maturity of non-MF digital cameras, some of the advantages of film MF have evaporated; e.g., enlargement limits, dynamic range and the like. One still reigns, though, and that is the huge 6x6 optical viewfinder in Hasselblads and Rolleiflexes. You go out to photograph and it is like you're monitoring the world thru a small TV set. The Acute Matte screen is like the best among those "TV screens" available today. Don't deprive yourself of such a joy for a few bucks!

<p>Thank you for your information!<br />I ordered new acute-matte d with microprism and split image from Finnish seller.<br />Cost a lot, but <br />so what?<br />I am really convinced that it is worth every penny.<br />Now looking for 180/4....<br />Sincerely, Jukka</p>

 

Sorry that I posted a comment before noticing that you already acted---and wisely so! Would it be possible to provide the Website of that Finnish seller you've mentioned?

Thanks,

Paul

apostolos_tournas, perhaps you did not notice this thread is very old (ralf11womba and I may have unwisely re-animated it). The original poster jukka_1 has not replied since 2011, and hasn't even logged in to pnet since 2017. So I don't think you will get an answer from him, and if you did that Finnish dealer is probably out of business by now anyway. ;)

Yes, mea culpa. I thought it would be best to keep screen posts in one thread; camera lockup info in the other...

 

I hear you re the big screen and the lack of other advantages. I recently sold most of my Nikon gear and moved to m43 for most work.

 

The Hassy is just fun to use, much as an old Porsche 911 is fun to shift. I bought an 80mm CF lens for it (KEH BGN rated, $517, in shipment) and missed out on an Acute Matte 42165 screen but am still looking.

apostolos_tournas, perhaps you did not notice this thread is very old (ralf11womba and I may have unwisely re-animated it). The original poster jukka_1 has not replied since 2011, and hasn't even logged in to pnet since 2017. So I don't think you will get an answer from him, and if you did that Finnish dealer is probably out of business by now anyway. ;)

 

Wow, thanks for pointing out that to me! I have a habit to not check post dates, I'm afraid. Pity, for I'd like to get that info.