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My big reason for leaving Lightroom....


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I know the topic of alternatives to Lightroom have been covered many times. But I am thinking of finally quitting. But not for the reasons you (probably) think.

- I mostly don't mind the interface. Performance is a bit sluggish, but I can live with that.

- I understand the reasons for a subscription model, and I can accept that.

 

I run Mac OS X. And I am a retired Apple software engineer. So I think I understand Macs, OS X and software.

 

What really bugs me is Adobe's software installation model. Firstly, there is the stupid "Creative Cloud" app that runs in my task bar. It does nothing for my user experience. Sure, it alerts me for updates, but I would way prefer that message only to appear when I launch or am running Lightroom. I use Lightroom probably less than 10% of my overall time at the computer. Why do I want CC running the other 90% of the time? When I remember, I quit it, and then (because I subscribe) I have to remember to relaunch it when I want to use Lightroom. I mean really.

 

Now, even when I quit CC and Lightroom, my computer's process space is polluted by Adobe processes. Like "Adobe Desktop Service" and "AdobeCRDeamon" (I have 3 of them running for some reason). AdobeIPCBroker. CCLibrary. CCXProcess. Core Sync. Core Sync Helper. And I have probably missed some. Let me reiterate: this is when CC is NOT running and Lightroom is not running.

 

Now you might tell me to just ignore this extra stuff. It is mostly invisible, anyway. But every one of these pieces is a potential point of bugs and a potential point of security compromises. But mostly, it is completely and utterly unnecessary for Adobe to have architected Lightroom this way.

 

I checked Capture One (trial) today. Yes, while it was running there were some background processes, but when it was not running, there were none of its stuff running. And that is exactly as it should be.

 

The only processes that should be running should be the ones that are necessary for the task I am doing, or for the functionality of the OS.

 

If you think I am missing something, I would love to hear about that.

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You can designate programs which run on startup in Setup/Users & Groups/Login Items. All of the actions you describe regarding Creative Cloud are set under Preferences in that program, including Run at Login and Check for Updates. Apple systems have never been immune from hacking, but weren't used widely enough to make the effort worthwhile until the early 2000's. My "conversion" occurred in late 2016.

 

I frequently exchange images and information between Creative Cloud applications, and several OS X and iOS devices. Creative Cloud makes that easy and reliable. Capture One is what, an island unto itself?

 

I use many imaging applications other than bear the Adobe name. In general, they play nice with Adobe when needed, at least if they wish to survive.

 

Hey! It's your choice, but I'm not persuaded.

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You mention two levels of software: Apps and (Background) Processes.

 

It's not only Adobe that adds 'automatic startup' Apps and Background Processes during installation or when the App is first used. Skype, Evernote, Dropbox, Bing, Canon - to name just a few - do too. As @Ed_Ingold says, you can (and should) choose which Apps start up automatically and disable the ones you don't need/want. I use Windows 10 and clicking on Settings - Apps - Startup shows me a list of the programs that may be run at startup. For each, there's an on/off button so you can easily turn any off any you don't want. The Adobe Apps you mention, for example.

 

At the level of Background Processes, things quickly (for me) get much more complicated, less clear and technically much more detailed and uncertain. Some App-related Processes still run in the background even though the Apps are disabled at startup! I never really understood how this could be until I read this page on Autoruns at Microsoft.com. Turns out that Apps (or installations) set "keys" in various places in Windows (like the Registry) to autorun background processes. I suspect that these keys don't get reset if you disable the App on startup. So the "keyed-in" background processes keep autorunning anyway. I'm pretty sure that - even you stop an unecessary process in Task Manager - its "key" will still autorun it the next time you boot or use the App.

 

Most background processes use up very little memory (around 5% on my 16 GB laptop) and 0% CPU time when they're not doing anything. Some background processes are very useful and helpful and some are not. The difficulty is knowing which of these 2 categories a background process falls into. I'm just guessing here, but it's possible that Adobe, being an "integrated solution/service provider", has background processes running than enable you to open Photoshop from Lightroom, access Adobe's on-line resource libraries (or your own shared resource libraries) from any Adobe App, enables a drop-down menu in the 'list of Apps' screen, can open any supported (updated/extended) media formats, etc. I think that the intention is that Adobe products just work, even if thes App itself or the supported data formats have been updated or extended. I think the same is true for most other background 'update' processes. Just like the Windows (or browser) 'automatic update' function, the background processes check from time to time whether there are any updates that you should be aware of.

 

The only alternative to this (as far as I can see) is - if you're online - is that the App checks for updates each time you start it. In this case, your user experience would be ''click on Lightroom (or any Adobe product)" and then wait while it checks whether any updates are available and how to update. The benefit of a "background process" is that it periodically does these checks in the background and immediately "knows" when you start Lightroom whether updates are available and how to install them. You just press "OK" and carry on with what you intended. I think many App/Service providers these days choose to optimize the 'response time' to users for upgrades by doing any 'upgrade' work in the background (which users shouldn't notice).

 

The 'less helpful' background processes are the ones for Apps/Services that you almost never use and those that have no other purpose than to send back your App/web behaviour to the supplier. For some of these (for example browsers), you can explicitly opt in or out of 'monitoring/feedback/crash' options. Other Apps don't give you the explicit choice and are probabablyly buried deep in their 'Terms and Conditions' which few people read in detail.

 

In the Windows Task Manager, you can (with caution!) stop any processes that you think are redundant. Stopping processes can make your system unstable and cause crashes. In the Task Manager, that's not a problem because you can just re-boot and everything's back to normal.But it's a pain to have to repeat this every time you start up Windows.

 

I downloaded the 'Autoruns' program on the Microsoft page and ran it. The "help" funtion was the most useful because most of what I saw on the screen was just gobbledygook to me! But I did see a couple of Process "keys" that really did look redundant (for example, a background process for an anti-RSI App that I'd disabled at startup). Unclicking this process did stop it automatically starting up. The same is true for 'update processses' for a couple of other Apps but not for all that I'd "unclicked". I don't know why.

 

The Autoruns program allows you to 'unclick' the Processes that you don't want to run on startup. But unless you're confident about what you're doing, I'd advise against using this program (or at least use it very cautiously!). The program makes permanent changes to the Windows 'Registry'. If you use it, keep a record of the changes (clicks/unclicks) you make so that if an App suddenly doesn't work, you can undo restore the 'clicks' prior to your recent changes. Stay away from all 'Windows' processes!

Edited by mikemorrell
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Now you might tell me to just ignore this extra stuff

 

I won't tell you to do anything, but that is what I do. These background processes (a small percentage of the many on my computer) have never caused me any problems, so I ignore them and instead focus on whether Lightroom is a good tool for letting me accomplish what I want with my photos. It is (for me--again, I am not offering advice), so I'll stick with it. I find the package itself good for my purposes, and I also enjoy the fact that it integrates in various ways with the other software I use often: Photoshop, Zerene, and Nik.

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Easy for me, I just quit the CC application (menu item/task bar). Open it now and then for it to talk to home base or alert me to updates.

IT absolutely doesn't have be running, for long periods of time to use any Adobe application.

Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com)

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As far as the "cracked copies" thing, I find that the fees Adobe, and many others, have always charged for their products to be beyond outrageous. There is no defence or justification for what they do. Originally all their software was developed for business use only so they new they could could charge what ever they wanted because it would be "written off." Now that they supply a massively increased market including individuals at home, nothing has changed. To have to outlay more for one piece of software than a very good computer is ridiculous. Don't even get me started on Microsoft. If these companies, and others, actually made their software affordable to the masses, they would be shocked at their increased sales volume and profits.

 

 

On another note, now that I am angry, I process massive digital images from stitched files, and to introduce Adobe Suite CC that cannot do what CS6 can do was/is a crime. One day I will give them another try, but now that I have stepped up to a 5DS R from a 21 MP camera I doubt things will get any better. What happens when I start stitching 100 MP files from a GFX in a few years?

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Well, John, I'll keep the doors locked when you're in town ;)

 

Without software, a computer is just a warm box. Without fees, who would do the programming and development? Without continual development, you don't just stop progress, you fall behind. There are probably at least a dozen members on the Photoshop development team alone, who expect to be paid, and direct labor is a fraction of the cost of production and distribution.

Edited by Ed_Ingold
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There are reasons, some expressed above, why many of us still run our old, pre-subscription Adobe software.

 

It is a matter of concern, though, that Apple OS updates increasingly work poorly with the older programs, and will break them definitively very soon.

 

For me, High Sierra may be the last....

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I hate all the apps that run in the background especially on my cell phone. I'm sure extra data is being used at my financial cost plus who knows what other interference is going on. You give up your privacy, serenity, security, and safety when you start operating apps. I wish there was a way around this. Too many apps are working in the background when you're not using them.
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@AlanKlein, see my previous reply on Apps and Processes. I'm sure that this applies to all devices (including cell phones). I truly believe that it boils down to a question of trust: do you have confidence that an App supplier is acting in your best interests (w.r.t. your user experience, your privacy, your data usage, etc. ) or not? In many cases, it's a question of reaching a comprimise between 'having background processes that keep you up to date' (but possibly comprimising your privacy and occasionally using some resources) and running the risk of things not working when you expect them to.

 

On cell phones there's almost always an option (setting) to upgrade your OS and Apps only when you're connected to Wi-Fi. So these upgrades don't cost you anything. I'm an IT-dinosaur and I'm in complete awe of just how easy it is to use any devices/Apps these days! Everything that needs to be upgraded is done 'in the background' without me even noticing. I don't have to worry about 'upgrades' any more. I don't really care about how many 'background processes' are running on any of my devices. What matters most is whether there's a good reason for these and how many resources they're using up.

 

I'm not stupid. I know that many 'free' Apps such as Google and Facebook collect and distribute my personal data to ad companies. This is a personal choice.

 

I hate all the apps that run in the background especially on my cell phone. I'm sure extra data is being used at my financial cost plus who knows what other interference is going on. You give up your privacy, serenity, security, and safety when you start operating apps. I wish there was a way around this. Too many apps are working in the background when you're not using them.
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Thanks Mike. My question was related to the iphone. Your previous post seemed to do with desktops. How to you check data quantity used through the wireless company by each app on the iphone? For some reason, my wife's iphone data use has doubled or tripled in the last few months. I'm trying to figure out why that happened.
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Most background processes use up very little memory (around 5% on my 16 GB laptop) and 0% CPU time when they're not doing anything. Some background processes are very useful and helpful and some are not.

I use Dropbox, and I don't mind its task bar or its background process: they are needed for its core functionality, namely to keep my files synchronized on all my devices. When I add a humungous file from one of my devices, I am happy when, two days later, say, I can get it on another device without having to wait for a server download. I am NOT against background processes: I am against unnecessary background processes. There is only one good use case for Lightroom - an optional background process to keep Lightroom up-to-date. There are some apps I would not touch with a 10 foot barge pole: I just know too much to be confident that my privacy is not being compromised.

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You can designate programs which run on startup in Setup/Users & Groups/Login Items. All of the actions you describe regarding Creative Cloud are set under Preferences in that program, including Run at Login and Check for Updates

I just did an experiment: I turned all these options off. I quit creative cloud. I restarted my computer. I went to "Logins Options" on my preferences pane. Only Dropbox was showing. But when I look at what tasks are running I see these:

 

Adobe Desktop Services

AdobeCRDaemon (3 of them, actually)

AdobeIPCBroker

CCLibrary

CCXProcess

Core Sync

Core Sync Helper

 

There may be more. Furthermore, the first of these was using 70% of my CPU for a while.

Not only are they (from a functional point of view) unnecessary, but Adobe have gone out of their way to make it hard for most users to stop this behaviour. It is possible that they are there to make launch of their apps faster. But if that is the case, I would much rather be given the choice with a preference like "enable processes for faster launch". The Core Sync ones I can understand, but I don't use Adobe cloud for photos so what is being synced here? My hunch is that the some of the other processes are there for the purpose of analytics. And the purpose of analytics is to improve marketing, not my experience. The others reflect laziness on the part of the software engineers.

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In Windows, I was in control of all processes, including ones which are necessary for normal operations. There are endless ways to mess up. In OSX, not so much. Apple computers seem intended for those who do have a job to do without hacking, nor are there many ways to do so.

 

The processes you see mostly run in background. If you do something with higher priority, they sit and wait until you're done. If a background process shows a high percentage of CPU activity, it is largely because other processes, including those associated with Photoshop and Lightroom, take so little time in total, even if their demand for CPU power is high for the moment. As I am typing, my CPU is running at only 3%, 2% of which are jobs I'm running. Yes, CC is present and alive.

 

I'm not losing any sleep over this.

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I just looked on my main computer. Once the bootup processes are all over, all of the Adobe background processes (I have four running) are using so little that they display as 0% of CPU. The only background process that is using appreciable resources is McAfee, which hasn't yet finished it's boot-up scan. 0% is not worth worrying about, IMHO.

 

the creative cloud app itself does seem to use a tiny fraction of a percent when it is running, but there is no reason at all to have it running most of the time. You can go to preferences and tell it not to load when the computer boots. That's how I have mine set. The update notification will still load (using 0%) and will alert you when there are updates waiting. I only execute the Creative Cloud app when I need it.

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These processes run in background for your convenience. They remind you when updates are available, even download and install them if you wish. They open applications quickly with just the right information to operate on files you select with a right-click (or by default, according to file extension). You can select-copy-paste or click-drag pages or objects from one CC application to another. Adobe Acrobat is at the ready when you want to save a text or graphics file in what is probably the most universal file format, PDF. The content you spend so much time creating is shepherded carefully and completely to where you need it to be.

 

I don't like it when Apple nags me to "upgrade" to Mojave, but their intrusion is modest compared to Microsoft's incessant plugging of Windows 10 (which is one of the main reasons I switched platforms after over 30 years).

 

If you don't log into CC once a month or so, you CC applications will revert to a demo mode, briefly, then stop working. That's not a problem with my work station, but means I have to log in my laptop before traveling, especially overseas, to bring things up to date and restart the timer.

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Long before, when Volkswagon was run by engineers, not MBA's. It was about the time GM and Ford realized premature rust was more effective than new design features in determining obsolescence.

 

My point is, when you say your product is "as good as..." you are actually promoting the "as...".I've been led down that path with software too, with much disappointment once I discovered what I was really missing. The latter includes customer support, continual development, and longevity in terms of work flow and human interface. Time is money, including time it takes to learn and become effective with the product.

Edited by Ed_Ingold
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I left Lightroom because it had become pretty clear to me that Adobe aren’t very good at their jobs. E.g., Fuji X-Trans has been around for years, but Lightroom still can’t render the files nearly as well as Iridient can, and that’s developed by one guy. But what really did it for me was when one day my Dell’s 512gb ssd ran out of space. That made no sense, so I started digging and it turned out that Lightroom had cached 300gb of video from folders on a cloud drive that I’d never asked it to load into a hidden folder without telling me. That’s because of a bug that had been known for years and never fixed.
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