Nikon Button Choice.

I just don't see the benefit of that extra level of configurability.

It would already help if Nikon would allow the same options to be programmed to each function button instead of a what appears to be quite random and restricted selection of functionalities.

 

I like that most buttons on the Z6/Z7 are now to the right of LCD (something I had wished for on Nikon DSLRs for years). But that's about where liking the Z6/Z7 interface stops for me.

 

IF Nikon indeed copied Canon (not saying they did and whether or not is irrelevant anyway) - then the copy has far surpassed the original. I believe the only UI more confusing than Canon's can be found on Olympus.

We use the same, finite collection of camera bodies for so many different subjects and under so many varying conditions, that being able to reprogram most, if not all, buttons seems like a very good idea. For example, I watched a tutorial the other day where the photographer shooting wildlife with a long, heavy telephoto had reprogrammed the DoF preview button to "replay". This would allow him to keep his left hand in support of the big lens and still selectively chimp his images, using a button that's in easy reach of his right hand. I tried it and I think this will be my default for when I'm hand-holding a long lens. I only very rarely use the DoF preview, particularly when shooting long telephoto, so it's no loss. Otherwise, I have to find a place to rest the lens while manipulating the playback with my left hand. This likely isn't a big deal for the vast majority of photographers, but it sure is useful in this specific condition. I wish I could reprogram the center button on my D810's multi-selector to function as the "OK" button, as is the default on my D7100. Again, this would avoid much of the two-handed nature of manipulating menus using the left-side OK button.

(Oh, and the problem with a monopod is tripping over it, or clouting people. Just because I'm using a big lens doesn't mean I'm not moving what, by my standards, is "quickly".)

 

I find it very annoying when I can't quite hold the lens absolutely still when waiting for a bird to arrive, for example, on a suitable branch or tree trunk, or when the subject is present, each shot has slightly different framing (without intending it to be so). With a tripod I get highly controlled results much more easily, and I don't have to hold the lens while waiting (which can be hours). I can occasionally hand hold a long lens to get a quick shot of a subject in a position which is beyond the reach of the angles possible with my tripod head, for example, but most of the time I'm waiting and there the tripod is a big help. I find that if I move about (or even move the lens quickly while hand held) the birds tend to flee, whereas if I stay put they will often get closer to me after a while of waiting. There are exceptions, of course, but by far the most common situation is that I can get closer shots by waiting. If I move about freely with a hand held lens it is typically seconds that I have to get a shot before the subjects leave. But I can understand why people would want to move about while shooting (people need exercise and want to see new things, some just don't like to stay still).

 

As for other people, don't see them around when I'm shooting wildlife and if such an unusual occurrence did take place, I would either hope them to leave or go away myself. ;-) Hey, there is a reason I live in Finland ...

Andrew, it's the 4 buttons on the top panel becoming a dial on the left and then the same dial on the right.

 

They have ON/OFF switches that used to be on the back panel moved to the top left.

 

then there's that bizarre massive rotary wheel on the back which became a standard 4 way jog switch.

 

I'm not saying Nikon are much better, but pop "Canon DSLR back views" into Google images and spot the changes!

 

Compare the 40D to the 400D...;) Canon EOS 40D Review

I don't understand the Canon thumb wheel positioning, does it not require one to twist the thumb down to reach?

 

Looking at the Eos 50, it's actually not too bad to get a thumb onto - helped by the body being fairly thin. I can only assume that on a 5D, you're supposed to stretch out your fingers so you're not fully holding the grip - but it's caused my thumb physical pain when I've tried it in a store (I'm sure because I'm doing it wrong). I suspect the lower position, assisted by the increased depth of the dSLR, is there so you can still get to the dial when you've got a grip attached - which makes it equally inconvenient for both. :-)

 

Also the 180-400's TC switch can be reached without lifting either left or right hand from their shooting positions.

 

Yes - I've heard that complaint. Arguably a problem with the Canon even if you have it on a tripod! Surely not everyone in a user test uses the camera in exactly the same way, such that they never see these issues? Several Canons used to have depth of field preview on the left side of the mount, which even my novice experience indicated was mind-bogglingly dumb - they don't even have Nikon's excuse of a mechanical interlock.

 

I just don't see the benefit of that extra level of configurability. If you have a car, for example, would you configure the steering wheel to be the accelerator, and perhaps turn left/right from the windshield wiper switch etc.

 

Eh, I play Real Racing 3, and it has (roughly, I've not checked) six different options for how to configure the steering, braking and acceleration. The windscreen wipers on my wife's MX-5 go the wrong way because they were cheaply converted when they made the car right-hand drive. I've driven cars with the indicators and wipers swapped. My Skoda has electric windows in the door; the MX-5 has them on the transmission tunnel. Don't get me started on fuel cap locks. Modern cars really do have electric controls for positioning the seat and wheel.

 

There are physical controls in certain places for a reason and it is so that people can drive reflexively and basically drive any car.

 

Make bet? What proportion of Americans can drive stick shift properly? Whenever I drive an automatic I have to fight the urge to slam my left foot on the floor (or brake) when I expect to change gear. I drove in California recently and had a fight in working out how the oddly-shaped automatic gearbox was behaving - and I think I was driving in one of the dedicated gears rather than generic drive at one point. I always flail around until I find the parking brake (not a lever in the centre as I'm used to). I've no idea how to use a flappy paddle gearbox (or which way round they work). Cars have different steering racks (nonlinear in some cases). And, of course, every time I cross a junction or move in a car park in the US, I have to say "drive on the right, drive on the right, drive on the right" under my breath. And I'm actually quite used to it now. I still rev the MX-5 whenever I drive it because the clutch is so different from the Skoda - and the Skoda is a diesel, so its engine revs and torque curve are completely different.

 

I'd gladly have a way to reconfigure the buttons on the dash or AV system. But then, my new Android Wear watch has a dedicated swipe direction for fitness... for which it has no features, and I'm never going to use it anyway. Any arbitrary configuration decision made by an engineer under any circumstances is probably a mistake for someone.

 

The more critical the function is, the more same it should function in all cameras. The reflexes evolve over decades of shooting and this is why changing them is disruptive.

 

I didn't actually suggest moving the shutter release - although of course the shutter release on a Rolleiflex is in a weird place. Canon and Nikon traditionally zoom in different directions. Dials have certainly moved and swapped over time, or between ranges (particularly on single-dial cameras, but even with two dials easy-ISO/easy-EC move according to mode). There's more than one way to do even the basics, which is why it's good to be able to configure the camera to do what you're used to. Hence Nikon allowing the +/- exposure readings to be flipped on recent bodies.

 

I'm more concerned with the more minor stuff. Some things are deeply buried in menus when I consider them primary controls (exposure shift on auto-ISO springs to mind), others are target-specific (buttons for metering mode vs buttons for AF area - all of which used to be on the right hand on the D700 before Nikon moved them). When I'm doing something specific and time-sensitive with a moving subject, I need the camera set up how I want, not how an engineer decided would work best for everyone.

 

It would already help if Nikon would allow the same options to be programmed to each function button instead of a what appears to be quite random and restricted selection of functionalities.

 

Indeed. I don't see how this is better than being more general.

 

I like that most buttons on the Z6/Z7 are now to the right of LCD (something I had wished for on Nikon DSLRs for years). But that's about where liking the Z6/Z7 interface stops for me.

 

I even looked at the Z6/Z7 review before my comment about button locations, but was clearly too cross-eyed, because I persuaded myself they were on the left. This would be the biggest plus of the Z6/Z7 design for me. Nikon could get rid of that complaint from me by putting some programmable buttons on the right half of the LCD...

For example, I watched a tutorial the other day where the photographer shooting wildlife with a long, heavy telephoto had reprogrammed the DoF preview button to "replay".

 

Huh. That's often a problem I have, but then I completely forget that you can configure the programmable buttons to do this. Thank you for the reminder, I'll look into it.

 

I wish I could reprogram the center button on my D810's multi-selector to function as the "OK" button, as is the default on my D7100. Again, this would avoid much of the two-handed nature of manipulating menus using the left-side OK button.

 

Does it not usually work as OK? I thought it typically was, except for a couple of cases like card formatting. P.28 of the D810 manual (at least, the version I have): "While pressing (right) or the center of the multi selector generally has the same effect as pressing (OK), there are some cases in which selection can only be made by pressing (OK)."

 

I find it very annoying when I can't quite hold the lens absolutely still when waiting for a bird to arrive, for example, on a suitable branch or tree trunk, or when the subject is present, each shot has slightly different framing (without intending it to be so).

 

I now imagine you framing on random branches and sitting in a field for a few weeks until a bird happens to land there. :-) Yes, horses for courses, I use a tripod (or on rarer occasions monopod) if I'm pointing at a reasonably static subject, or at least if I don't need to move the camera position. On the other hand, tracking swifts or dragonflies that are buzzing my head with a 70-200, 200/2 or 200-500 involves a lot of aerobic swinging about and in some cases running alongside a pond. For tiddlywinks, when someone gets in position to play, they're there for a few seconds - and I have to get to the right side of the table for the way they're facing (or their arm blocks everything), dodge everyone standing in the way, and not annoy everyone else in the room more than necessary. Even a light monopod would be somewhere between an inconvenience and a trip hazard. For skittish wildlife in a quiet area, there's a lot to be said for holding very still (and reclining in a car, in the case of my squirrel images - which, btw, didn't make the cut for WPoTY - another time!); if everything is active, you need to be able to move.

 

As for other people, don't see them around when I'm shooting wildlife and if such an unusual occurrence did take place, I would either hope them to leave or go away myself. ;-) Hey, there is a reason I live in Finland ...

 

<Insert Brexit joke about how much us Brits like having other people around.>

I didn't actually suggest moving the shutter release - although of course the shutter release on a Rolleiflex is in a weird place.

 

I wouldn't say that-the shutter release position on a Rolleiflex has become pretty much the default location for medium format SLRs and TLRs both. The only camera I have that "breaks" that tradition is my Pentax 645, which places the shutter release where you'd expect it on a 35mm camera(fitting the "overgrown 35mm camera" inspired parts of the design). Otherwise, my Haselblad 500C and 500ELM, the Bronica SQ-A I used before that, the Bronica S2a and ETRS I owned for a while, and the Mamiya RB67s I use some also have the shutter release in the lower right corner.

 

As for car controls-the only manual I drive regularly messes me up on pretty much all other manuals. My MG puts 1st gear forward and center, the same place as 3rd gear on a typical 5 or 6 speed. That means that when I drive something that's not an MG, I often try to start the car in 3rd gear. On the other hand, it's yet another useful anti-theft device(aside from the manual transmission in the first place, the manual choke, and the other BL quirks), as I have an aftermarket knob without the pattern, and most folks would never find reverse without that unless they were familiar with that transmission. Also, I drive the car all the time and still sometimes have to fight it to get the unsynchronized reverse to engage in the first place even though I know where it is.

 

There's also the fun quirk at least with a lot of BMC/BL sports cars where the tachometer is x100 rather than x1000, and is on the left(most US cars put the tach on the right). I've been driving down the interstate before at 75+ mph with a passenger and had them comment on the fact that we were "only" going 45mph and that it was strange that I was still passing people going that slow :)

there are some cases in which selection can only be made by pressing (OK).

Which is why I wish I could reprogram the center button to match the D7100. If it works on that body, there's no reason it could not work well as a reprogramming option.

Edited February 11, 2019 by DavidTriplett

Ah, I defer to your expertise of medium format, Ben. Predictably, my only other medium format experience (other than handling a Mamiya 6 briefly) is with my Pentax 645.

 

Interesting MG feature. I've driven a car with the gears in a configuration like that, but it was on a skid pan, and apparently it was the accidental result of some rough handling of the gearbox by a rugby team earlier in the week...

 

I think I've had that with the tachometer too. But then I have to keep doing some maths when I'm somewhere that counts in kph instead (because the UK is only mostly metric).

There's also the fun quirk at least with a lot of BMC/BL sports cars where the tachometer is x100 rather than x100

My very first experience driving a friend's MG (when I was 15 and not yet legal) I confused the tach and speedo, resulting in a much higher than legal speed. I'm ever so grateful there wasn't a traffic cop around for that one...:cool:

With mirrorless taking over sooner rather than later, I think the entire interface will change and most changes will be made with the i-menu via touch on the back LCD. None of that will work with the camera up at the eye unless Nikon (or any other manufacturer) decides to duplicate everything via button press and dial turns when the EVF is used.

As for car controls-the only manual I drive regularly messes me up on pretty much all other manuals.

Must be the reason I am always confused and try to start my stick-shift Ferrari in reverse.

Humm, so what is it with the parking-chocks in American carparks?

I now imagine you framing on random branches and sitting in a field for a few weeks until a bird happens to land there. :)

 

I did say hours, not weeks. I don't point the lens at "random branches" but ones where I know birds to frequent. With water birds, during hard winter they tend to hang about in areas that are among the last to freeze but shielded from strong winds. There are situations where the birds (e.g., swans) are in the water and stay relatively still for a time. Then suddenly they may take off. If my lens isn't ready I won't be able to react in time. If I have to spend my energy keeping the lens fixed on the subjects, I probably won't be able to monitor signs that they may be taking off in a moment. By using a good tripod, the viewfinder image stays still and I can see things that may be precursors to taking off. And I find it infinitely more pleasurable to wait while the tripod is holding the lens ready.

 

You can chase wildlife if you prefer. I find it is very unusual for that to lead to successful images, though occasionally it can happen. I think it's better to hang around and then they will show to me or the camera what they are comfotable in showing. If I move actively a lot, it's unusual to get more than a few seconds to get shots. But I can see that environments differ from each other and different techniques may work elsewhere.

 

On the other hand, tracking swifts or dragonflies that are buzzing my head with a 70-200, 200/2 or 200-500 involves a lot of aerobic swinging about and in some cases running alongside a pond.

 

I can't really outrun animals, they enter my vicinity at their pleasure. I saw some dragonflies in a swampy pond last summer but there was no chance of chasing them in the swampy water. I would think a motion / proximity sensor triggering the camera would likely work for such a subject, though I haven't done it myself.

 

For tiddlywinks, when someone gets in position to play, they're there for a few seconds

 

In such circumstances I understand you would hand-hold the gear. However, I think most people would use something like a 70-200/2.8 to get those shots and have the flexibility of shooting with different framings quickly (considering that you may not be able to choose your position freely) and because it's a lightish weight lens, all the controls are available even when hand holding the camera and lens. If you use an unusual lens such as the 200/2, then you can expect some discomfort. Still there are now so many custom buttons (lens buttons, Fn1, Fn2, Pv etc.) that it's hard for me to see that one would not be able to configure the camera with enough control cover a given shooting situation even when hand holding a 200/2.

 

For skittish wildlife in a quiet area, there's a lot to be said for holding very still

 

I think the animals should be given time to familiarize with the photographer, but calm movements should be fine. They know you are there and once they get used to you they may be willing to allow you to go about your business while they do theirs.

 

didn't make the cut for WPoTY - another time!);

 

Well that is a tall tree to climb. I shoot wildlife only to add a little bit of color and life to my landscape images, to give the reminder of who lives in the landscape, ambitions of world fame are really not in my plans.

 

if everything is active, you need to be able to move.

 

I don't know if that's the case. I can't outrun the animals, I find I can only really wait for them to come close to me, if they should choose to do so.

 

<Insert Brexit joke about how much us Brits like having other people around.>

 

Well, I look forward to seeing a reapplication of membership in a short time and perhaps an appetite for mingling again. :)

I did say hours, not weeks. I don't point the lens at "random branches" but ones where I know birds to frequent.

 

Oh yes - I'm sympathetic (and have used tripods pointing at bushes and bird tables, or even the occasional nest). I jest, but most of the time I don't have the patience or time. Besides, stay in a field for a couple of hours in the UK and it'll probably rain on you.

 

You can chase wildlife if you prefer. I find it is very unusual for that to lead to successful images, though occasionally it can happen. I think it's better to hang around and then they will show to me or the camera what they are comfotable in showing. If I move actively a lot, it's unusual to get more than a few seconds to get shots. But I can see that environments differ from each other and different techniques may work elsewhere.

 

Yes, it depends where I'm going and what I'm doing. Sometimes you wait somewhere and the wildlife walks past. Sometimes you walk through a woods and suddenly see something.

 

I can't really outrun animals, they enter my vicinity at their pleasure.

 

Yes, I should specialise in snails. (Actually, chasing invertebrates in macro is tricky, now I've tried it.)

 

I saw some dragonflies in a swampy pond last summer but there was no chance of chasing them in the swampy water. I would think a motion / proximity sensor triggering the camera would likely work for such a subject, though I haven't done it myself.

 

I think I tried the trap focus thing. It's never seemed as effective as you'd hope, although I've not tried on the D850. They were largely ignoring me, just moving fast. The ones in Canada were a bit more relaxed and stopped to look at me, although I was having serious autofocus trouble with them.

 

(Tiddlywinks)

 

In such circumstances I understand you would hand-hold the gear. However, I think most people would use something like a 70-200/2.8 to get those shots and have the flexibility of shooting with different framings quickly (considering that you may not be able to choose your position freely) and because it's a lightish weight lens, all the controls are available even when hand holding the camera and lens.

 

But... my hand's on the zoom ring. And it's not that light, if I'm aiming it. I still can't easily get at the top left button cluster while I'm shooting, unless I develop prehensile eyebrows.

 

Still there are now so many custom buttons (lens buttons, Fn1, Fn2, Pv etc.) that it's hard for me to see that one would not be able to configure the camera with enough control cover a given shooting situation even when hand holding a 200/2.

 

If you could program everything to do everything, maybe. Fn2 is positioned on the D850 to be chin-activated (it's more useful on the D5). For chasing birds in flight, I may have AF-On for 3D tracking activation, Pv for single point AF activation, Fn1 for area AF... and then struggle if I want to change metering. The 200 f/2's buttons may get used for AF recall, and I'm struggling with the rest. Irritatingly I never actually use the Info and i buttons in normal use, so reprogramming them would help.

 

I think the animals should be given time to familiarize with the photographer, but calm movements should be fine. They know you are there and once they get used to you they may be willing to allow you to go about your business while they do theirs.

 

Depends on the environment, as ever. If the animals are being scared off by others walking through the area every two minutes... There's a lot to be said for being somewhere quieter!

 

(WPoTY)

 

Well that is a tall tree to climb. I shoot wildlife only to add a little bit of color and life to my landscape images, to give the reminder of who lives in the landscape, ambitions of world fame are really not in my plans.

 

Yes, I know my place. Mostly I wanted to entertain the judges; I hope I raised a smile. Besides, I've not always agreed with some of their choices, so I'm not taking it personally. You get a discount on next year's portfolio, so there's that...

 

(Brexit)

 

Well, I look forward to seeing a reapplication of membership in a short time and perhaps an appetite for mingling again. :)

 

I just need you to marry me so I can get an EU passport, Ilkka. (My wife may have something to say about it... Perhaps adoption?)

Andrew! Which camera has trap focus? I like that feature but it seems that none of my camera can do that.

Andrew! Which camera has trap focus? I like that feature but it seems that none of my camera can do that.

 

Canon used to have it by that name, but I believe removed it (possibly around the 5DIII - it's been a while since I looked at the manuals). You can fake it by trying to acquire focus with your hand over the lens, waiting for the lens to fail (which it does at infinity, then focus manually. At least, so I understand, I never tried it and don't have a lens with USM override.

 

The Nikon equivalent is to use AF-C with rear-button focus (AF-On, option a4 on the Df) and focus priority release (option a1 on the Df, set to "Focus"). You have to hold down the shutter, but it should trip the moment the camera thinks it has focus. For reasons I can best describe as "stupid", the camera needs to think it's trying to achieve autofocus - so you need an autofocus or chipped lens (and chipped to something that thinks it has autofocus); it doesn't work with a purely manual lens, nor with something AI-P or equivalent. That's from memory - I may be mis-describing it, but hopefully a "trap focus" search in the forum will confirm. Nikon accidentally(?) removed it from the D810, IIRC, and claimed that the change was a feature until people complained and they put it back. I might be conflating it with the D800 - now it's no longer an issue with current firmware they blur together. :-)

 

It's not quite as reliable as you'd hope, but I've been known to use it while trying to photograph flowers that are blowing in the wind.

The way I understand trap focus is that one uses back button focus, and AFS with focus priority. It requires single point focusing and a camera that allows focus priority with the back button released. Not all cameras do. If you focus on a desired distance, then release the focus button and move the camera so the focus point is no longer at that distance, the camera will not fire unless something appears at the correct distance. So for example, if you focus on the top of a fence post, then move the camera to aim just above it, the camera will not fire until a bird lands on it.

 

You need back button focusing, because with shutter button focusing, the camera will fire after focus is confirmed once. Focusing and recomposing would be impossible otherwise. Retaining focus priority when the back button is released could even be considered a mistake, and it's not present in all cameras. The low end cameras like the D3200, for example, revert to release priority when the back button is released. So does the D7100 no matter how the priorities are set in the menu. But when I tried this with the D7200, I found trapping had been re-enabled in it. I recall reading that trapping was disabled for a time in a number of full frame cameras, and required a firmware update to re-enable it after customers complained. I suspect it could have been done on the D7100, but never was.

Oh yes - you're right, Matthew, you need to be in AF-S not AF-C for trap focus to work (sorry, it's been a while and I wasn't sure of myself when I said that). I don't have my camera in front of me.

 

I'm not quite sure, logically, why you should need to be in AF-S - the only difference in behaviour should (no?) be whether the camera continues to hunt for focus (when asked to) after focus has been acquired. The way I think of it, AF-S should require that focus be acquired once (since - forgive me, it's been a while since I used AF-S - the shutter was first half pressed?), after which the shutter should fire irrespective of whether what's currently under the AF point is in focus. AF-C should require that the current AF point be in focus at any point before release. I guess AF-S has the distinction that something passing through the focal plane will briefly trigger as "in focus" and then allow arbitrary later shots no matter whether there's anything at the focus point, whereas AF-C would stop shooting again once it lost focus. I don't really see why this should affect trap focus of itself. I don't dispute that this is what happens, I just don't understand it. If anything (which is why I remembered it backwards), AF-C would say to me "keep paying attention to what the AF system is telling you".

 

Retaining focus priority when the back button is released could even be considered a mistake, and it's not present in all cameras.

 

Oh, is this the logic? Nikon described it as a feature, but failed to explain why it could be seen as useful. I guess in AF-C you could have the mindset that you can keep tracking until you decide not to (and remove your thumb from AF-On), independently shoot while out of focus, but not want to release while pressing AF-On until focus had been reacquired. I'm not sure how AF-S is supposed to be different here. Frankly, the options could just be explained more orthogonally - there are enough other configuration tweaks to AF in the menu, describing this properly shouldn't have been difficult. Do what I say, not what you think I mean. (DWISNWYTIM)

 

I'd forgotten that the D7100 got hit by this change. It would have been around the right vintage for the Df to get caught in the behavioural change and not get picked up by the fix. Irritatingly, Nikon neither documented this properly, nor provided a way in the menus to tell one behaviour from another. Oh, and checking the archives, it seems to be the D800 that lost the feature, and had it re-enabled by a BIOS update; I've obviously forgotten what other models were affected.

 

I've yet to try it on the D850, and should. I'm curious to know whether the Z bodies behave differently.

Oh yes - you're right, Matthew, you need to be in AF-S not AF-C for trap focus to work (sorry, it's been a while and I wasn't sure of myself when I said that). I don't have my camera in front of me.

 

I'm not quite sure, logically, why you should need to be in AF-S - the only difference in behaviour should (no?) be whether the camera continues to hunt for focus (when asked to) after focus has been acquired. The way I think of it, AF-S should require that focus be acquired once (since - forgive me, it's been a while since I used AF-S - the shutter was first half pressed?), after which the shutter should fire irrespective of whether what's currently under the AF point is in focus. AF-C should require that the current AF point be in focus at any point before release. I guess AF-S has the distinction that something passing through the focal plane will briefly trigger as "in focus" and then allow arbitrary later shots no matter whether there's anything at the focus point, whereas AF-C would stop shooting again once it lost focus. I don't really see why this should affect trap focus of itself. I don't dispute that this is what happens, I just don't understand it. If anything (which is why I remembered it backwards), AF-C would say to me "keep paying attention to what the AF system is telling you".

 

 

 

Oh, is this the logic? Nikon described it as a feature, but failed to explain why it could be seen as useful. I guess in AF-C you could have the mindset that you can keep tracking until you decide not to (and remove your thumb from AF-On), independently shoot while out of focus, but not want to release while pressing AF-On until focus had been reacquired. I'm not sure how AF-S is supposed to be different here. Frankly, the options could just be explained more orthogonally - there are enough other configuration tweaks to AF in the menu, describing this properly shouldn't have been difficult. Do what I say, not what you think I mean. (DWISNWYTIM)

 

I'd forgotten that the D7100 got hit by this change. It would have been around the right vintage for the Df to get caught in the behavioural change and not get picked up by the fix. Irritatingly, Nikon neither documented this properly, nor provided a way in the menus to tell one behaviour from another. Oh, and checking the archives, it seems to be the D800 that lost the feature, and had it re-enabled by a BIOS update; I've obviously forgotten what other models were affected.

 

I've yet to try it on the D850, and should. I'm curious to know whether the Z bodies behave differently.

You have to buy a Z Andrew!

I too don't know why trapping would work only in AFS, and have not actually tested to see if it is actually true. At some point I'll have to steal stealthily into my wife's camera bag and fiddle with her 7200 again, and see what happens if you try to trap with AFC in focus priority mode. I can think of a reason or two why it shouldn''t, but don't know if Nikon thought the same.

 

I'm not sure why you'd want to use AFC for trapping, and if it worked as it does in AFS it would mean you couldn't reliably let go of the back button while firing at a moving subject, for fear the camera would stall, and you could not, as you do now, use AFC and back button to focus and recompose. If you leave AFC at release priority, you can use it with BBF as you would AFS, track motion by keeping the button down, or let go of the button and hope that your desired subject will either be within the depth of field or will re-enter it. That can be really handy if you have a lens that tends to hunt and a complex target, such as a bird in leaves, because some lenses (like the 55-300 I love to hate) may intermittently lock onto the subject and then unlock from the tiniest movement of camera and VR, and lose it altogether. And meanwhile, you can keep focus priority in AFS, and trap or not trap as you please.

 

I'll try to steal that D7200 later and report back.

I too don't know why trapping would work only in AFS, and have not actually tested to see if it is actually true. At some point I'll have to steal stealthily into my wife's camera bag and fiddle with her 7200 again, and see what happens if you try to trap with AFC in focus priority mode. I can think of a reason or two why it shouldn't, but don't know if Nikon thought the same.

 

I'm always happier to accept something that inconveniences me if I think there's a good reason for it to work the way it does! (Even if that way only helps other people. It's when it helps no-one that I get irritable.)

 

I'm not sure why you'd want to use AFC for trapping, and if it worked as it does in AFS it would mean you couldn't reliably let go of the back button while firing at a moving subject, for fear the camera would stall, and you could not, as you do now, use AFC and back button to focus and recompose. If you leave AFC at release priority, you can use it with BBF as you would AFS, track motion by keeping the button down, or let go of the button and hope that your desired subject will either be within the depth of field or will re-enter it. That can be really handy if you have a lens that tends to hunt and a complex target, such as a bird in leaves, because some lenses (like the 55-300 I love to hate) may intermittently lock onto the subject and then unlock from the tiniest movement of camera and VR, and lose it altogether. And meanwhile, you can keep focus priority in AFS, and trap or not trap as you please.

 

I can see why you'd want AF-C for trapping, at least. If you're trying to lock onto a branch in a tree, with other branches in front of it, AF-S will lock onto the first thing and stop focussing. AF-C will keep going for so long as you hold down AF-On, so if the AF system tends to lock onto branches waving in the wind, with AF-C you can keep trying until focus hits the right point - with AF-S you'd have to keep pumping the AF-S button to reinitiate AF. Admittedly with AF-S you'd know when it had achieved focus (because it would stop), whereas AF-C would potentially lose focus again - which is why both are useful behaviours. Release priority (for focus and recompose) is separately useful for both. You can switch between them with menu banks, although I don't use trap focus enough to make much use of this.

 

Essentially, there are three orthogonal behaviours:

• Should AF stop once AF has been achieved (AF-S) or continue for so long as AF is requested (AF-C)?
  
• Should the shutter release when there is no subject in focus (release priority) or only when the subject is in focus (focus priority); Nikon extend this with "focus + release" and "release + focus" priority, although configuring a tolerance for "in focus" would be pretty useful too.
  
• Should the camera switch to release priority when AF is not active, so the AF-On button can always be used for focus and recompose?
  

The last one seems to have been an arbitrary decision by some Nikon engineers rather than being under user control, which ought to have been the obvious way to avoid people complaining about either choice.

 

(And I still think all these should be orthogonal to whether the lens has autofocus, whether you've overridden focus on an AF-S lens, etc.)

 

I'll try to steal that D7200 later and report back.

 

I'll be interested. I failed to get to my D850 before I had to leave this morning.

I just checked trap focus behavior with both the D810 and the D500 - it works on both but there are differences.

On the D810, one needs to be in AF-S mode, single point, focus priority, focus activation via AF-ON only. Acquire focus, release AF-ON button, press shutter release - image only taken if something is in focus under the single point.

 

D500: trap focus works in both AF-C and AF-S mode and is also not limited to single focus point only. Camera needs to be set for focus priority and focus via AF-ON button. In addition, out-of-focus release needs to be disabled (that option does not exist on the D810). Having the camera set up this way naturally eliminates the possibility to frame and recompose (except in the fortuitous case where something will be in focus under the active AF area when the camera is moved).

I just checked trap focus behavior with both the D810 and the D500 - it works on both but there are differences.

On the D810, one needs to be in AF-S mode, single point, focus priority, focus activation via AF-ON only. Acquire focus, release AF-ON button, press shutter release - image only taken if something is in focus under the single point.

 

D500: trap focus works in both AF-C and AF-S mode and is also not limited to single focus point only. Camera needs to be set for focus priority and focus via AF-ON button. In addition, out-of-focus release needs to be disabled (that option does not exist on the D810). Having the camera set up this way naturally eliminates the possibility to frame and recompose (except in the fortuitous case where something will be in focus under the active AF area when the camera is moved).

 

Cool - Nikon got there before me! (I take back some of what I say about Nikon not thinking through their options.) I've just checked the manual, and the D850 should have the same behaviour as the D500. I've used trap focus on the D810, although infrequently, so that was more familiar to me. It sounds like the D500/D850 version separates the behaviour choices in the way I'd hope. I suspect that hoping it would work with manual-focus lenses may be a lot to ask, but I'll try it when I get home if nobody gets there first. :-)