Light meter?

system that only works properly if you develop each frame separately?

 

With digital, this is no trick at all.

 

An "Idiot's Guide" to exposure is the "O-zone system"

LINK The Ozone System: Photoshop Shadow/Highlight

 

:rolleyes:

When I shoot medium format film, I use a Minolta Autometer IIIF. I use the 10 degree attachment for reflective readings and it has the incident read adapter as well. If I was buying now, I'd get the IVF as it has an on-off switch. The III does not and I have to remove the battery between uses to conserve it. Common batteries are available for bith type unit. Note that the F suffix means it reads flash useful for indoor portraits and other flash photography. If you don;t need that just get the IV.

Whether that ‘average grey’ might be zone 4, 5 or 6, I can’t tell by eye, so I am winging it to some degree, but for the vast majority of purposes, it is close enough.

 

- I entirely agree with this approach, except I'd forget any reference to zones whatsoever.

 

Ansel Adams' system has one very positive point: Pre-visualisation.

So what the zone system is actually doing is making you look carefully at the tones in the scene to consider which ones are important and should be given prominence. Whether you assign some pretentious roman numerals to those tones is entirely beside the point IMO. It's the consideration process that's important.

 

There's also no real need to anally probe the scene with a spot meter. What it comes down to is basic exposure compensation to favour shadows, highlights or mid-tones.

 

Now there's a limit to the amount of exposure variation that can be tolerated if you're not going to change the development time - plus or minus one stop is readily accommodated by B&W film, maybe +/- two stops in the extreme. That's not a difficult or complicated choice to make, and entails no assignment of stupid roman numerals, nor splitting the scene up into ten, twelve or whatever zones and giving them pet names.

 

As I've pointed out before; there's a discrepancy of a half-stop between Ansel's written descriptions of zones V and VIII, and their true reflectance values. And if half a stop can go unnoticed for years by unquestioning zone practitioners; then what's the point of making such a song and dance out of exposure measurement in the first place?

 

"With digital, this is no trick at all."

 

- Indeed it's not, but the OP wishes to make life difficult for themselves by using film!

Edited January 2, 2019 by rodeo_joe|1

FWIW, the Minolta III/IIIf are known battery drainers. They are "supposed" to power down when not used for a few minutes, but I've found that my IIIf can drain a battery in a few days otherwise. The PX-28/4LR44 is not difficult to find, but also not necessarily inexpensive.

 

What I've taken to doing is putting a small piece of paper or cardboard under one of the battery contacts when I'm not using it. The corner of the card batteries come on, or a piece of the band around medium format film works well. I pull it out when I'm ready to use the meter, then put it back in when I'm done. I've had the same(lithium) battery in my meter for nearly two years doing this.

-

Ansel Adams' system has one very positive point: Pre-visualisation.

 

There's also no real need to anally probe the scene with a spot meter. What it comes down to is basic exposure compensation to favour shadows, highlights or mid-tones.

 

I've never quite understood why he used PRE-visualistaion? Isn't visualisation the same thing??

 

 

I don't have a spot meter, but I'm sure I've got an anal probe around here somewhere...……...

Edited January 2, 2019 by stuart_pratt

Be careful where you sit Stuart !

I have a "small" collection of folder cameras from the early-mid 50's and have fitted them with meters of the period. One might scoff at the Weston 835 or Gossen Pilot's, but their Retro looks go good with the Agfa's and others . They are spot on for a quick exposure. . if I want to go "anal" with my Zone System, a Weston III or V is used. If you can learn the basics of film photography & exposure, the light meter becomes an extension of your brain. Aloha, Bill

In the 'old' days of cine photography a down and dirty technique was to take a spot meter reading on the centre of the palm of your hand placed in the position of interest - as the back of your hand could change due to sun tan.

DOP's had pre-calculated the 'zone' of their flesh tone and adjusted exposure compensation accordingly.

A couple of DOP's I worked with were so experienced they could call the exposure in half stops by eye.

Matt's "hint" still works today. Meter your palm. Both reflective & incident readings will "generally" be about 1 f stop apart. I use this technique when color material is run thru the Vito II above. . .the Pilot meter lacks it's incident curtain, the Weston does not have one. Aloha, Bill

Any Weston pre-dating the model III will be calibrated in Weston's own film speed ratings. The model III's scale was adjusted to align with the ASA (now ISO) scale.

 

Most of the model 3s that I come across are fully functional, unlike the later models that nearly all have a dead or dying selenium cell.

 

However, the Weston 3 takes a peculiar type of invercone that's not easy to come by, and also requires an auxillary ND filter to change range. I was lucky enough to come across a couple of these incident light kits, and the special case needed to store the cone and filter.

Here they are -

Any Weston pre-dating the model III will be calibrated in Weston's own film speed ratings. The model III's scale was adjusted to align with the ASA (now ISO) scale.

 

Most of the model 3s that I come across are fully functional, unlike the later models that nearly all have a dead or dying selenium cell.

 

However, the Weston 3 takes a peculiar type of invercone that's not easy to come by, and also requires an auxillary ND filter to change range. I was lucky enough to come across a couple of these incident light kits, and the special case needed to store the cone and filter...

 

I've read a number of articles which state that selenium cells don't really die. The wiring does tend to get brittle, solder connections weaken, etc., but those can be repaired without replacing the cell itself.

I've read a number of articles which state that selenium cells don't really die.

 

- Those articles are just plain wrong!

 

I've had several 'dead' or inaccurate Weston meters apart, and in every case the selenium cell has had a low output that doesn't provide enough current to drive the meter to full-scale.

 

It's not the wiring, which is very robust. Even pressing a multimeter right onto the cell contacts in full sunlight doesn't measure sufficient current.

 

If the cells didn't die, how would the company Megatron have made numerous sales of replacement cells and offered a cell-replacement service for several years?

 

Don't believe everything that uninformed idiots post on the internet.

 

BTW, Megatron is no longer in business, and spare Weston cells are no longer available. The cost of a replacement cell made the meters pretty much BER anyway.

Edited January 5, 2019 by rodeo_joe|1

I got a Norwood Director working by taking out the large circular selenium plate and cleaning its edges and the rings in the body which press against the selenium to achieve contact. But I couldn't make sense of the readings. Some people say that if the photocells aren't exposed to light during storage they last longer.

 

Shame about Megatron, although Optimus Prime will be pleased.

I tend to look for convenience and an ability I wouldn't have otherwise. For old cameras with no meter but with an accessory shoe, the Voigtlander VC meters are great little modern meters that give you a pretty good idea of the exposure a simple in camera meter would choose. For added capability, spot meters will let you totally analyze a scene to see exactly what is going to come through on the film (since you're probably using film is you need a separate meter). I have an old Soligor spot meter with a little holster that I use sometimes. I also have a luna pro but it's ACTUAL batteries (mercury) are no longer available and it works reasonably well on current batteries but I don't use it as much these days.

I got a Norwood Director working by taking out the large circular selenium plate and cleaning its edges and the rings in the body which press against the selenium to achieve contact. But I couldn't make sense of the readings. Some people say that if the photocells aren't exposed to light during storage they last longer.

 

Shame about Megatron, although Optimus Prime will be pleased.

 

Older meters, and those made by Sekonic, seem to have better-made selenium cells than those fitted by Sangamo and Ilford to later Weston meters. Starting with the Weston IV, you can see that the cells look different from earlier ones - blue-grey rather than brownish, and appearing to have a thinner (or no!) protective laquer.

 

WRT cells being stored in the dark; my experience is that dark storage actually makes selenium cells less sensitive, and that they need exposure to bright light to 'wake up' and give their normal output again.

 

Unfortunately this doesn't work with the later generation of Weston cells, which stay stubbornly useless.

 

FWIW, there's an archived page from Megatron that gives some useful information on what sort of current you can expect from a fully-functioning selenium cell.

I use a Sekonic L-508, which combines an incident light meter with a spot meter and electronic flash meter into one unit. I use all three modes roughly equally - Incident for portraits and closeups, spot for landscapes and architecture and flash for multiple and off-camera flash units. That was a necessity with an all-manual Hasselblad, where even in-prism metering was of questionable use. Digital AE is much more reliable, and you get instant feedback. I still prefer use of a meter for portraits, groups photos and closeups, with or without flash. You can work by trial and error, but that takes longer, especially if you need to profile a large area for a group photo before the people arrive.

Weirdly enough, when it comes to selenium meters I've noticed trends that go more by specific meter than how the meter was stored.

 

I don't think I've seen a Weston III or earlier that didn't work and wasn't accurate.

 

At the same time, GE made a reasonably common handheld meter that always, to my eye, has always looked a bit like an electric razor. I have a few of those lying around-one of them will twitch a bit if I take it out in the sun and open the light shield, but the others are completely dead. I've handled one that worked and was accurate-it was one that someone brought into a local camera store along with a bunch of other stuff to sell when I happened to be there killing time(or at least it gave the expected light reading when pointed at one particular fluorescent light fixture in the store that is used so much for testing cameras/meters that anyone who works or hangs out in the shop can tell you what it should read).

 

Selenium meters built into cameras are almost always suspect in my experience, but I got a pleasant surprise when I bought a Canonflex RM and found that it was good. Not much later, I bought a Canon 7, which seemingly has the same meter mechanism, and it's also good.

 

My general experience with selenium has also been that if they give what I'd call a reasonable response(i.e. take them into full sun with the baffle-if present-closed and they deflect a good bit, or deflect in a reasonably bright room with the baffle open) they are PROBABLY reasonably accurate.

What is has the reflectivity of neutral gray in nature? A few examples include clear blue sky opposite the sun, green grass, or a red barn. You can use other common references as well, with the proper compensation. The palm of you hand (Caucasian) is about +1 stops (brighter). Tree foliage is about -1 stops (darker). You can take an incident reading if the light is roughly the same as that reaching your subject. However incident readings are best taken near the subject, pointing toward the camera (or the main source of light). For digital, if the light is a mix of light and shadow, expose for the highlights in which you want detail, and the shadows will take care of themselves. The rules are essential the same for slide film, except you can mostly forget about shadows. For negative film, expose for shadow detail, and trust highlights to luck and printing skill.

On the subject of metering there was an arcane device that never needed cell replacement or new batteries : The 'Harris Memory Meter III'.

Developed by the namesake of the 'Harris Shutter Effect', Robert S. Harris after he left Kodak, this simple but accurate device assisted many amateur photographers in the early 80s.

Exposures were calculated by rotating the inner dial to match the subject conditions.

(This was a more complex version of the simple exposure diagram sheet that was enclosed in each box of still's film.)

 

 

On the subject of metering there was an arcane device that never needed cell replacement or new batteries : The 'Harris Memory Meter III'.

Developed by the namesake of the 'Harris Shutter Effect', Robert S. Harris after he left Kodak, this simple but accurate device assisted many amateur photographers in the early 80s.

Exposures were calculated by rotating the inner dial to match the subject conditions.

(This was a more complex version of the simple exposure diagram sheet that was enclosed in each box of still's film.)

 

 

[ATTACH=full]1278611[/ATTACH]

 

You should memorize it rather than using it.

There was also the Johnson's Exposure Calculator (amongst many similar devices). For peasants like myself who couldn't afford photo electric meters, or TTL exposure cameras (an impossible dream).

I have a several Weston's, GE's, and a Sekonic L-86 (some work, some don't) with the Selenium batteries. Decided to upgrade to something more reliable, so I just bought a Sekonic L-188, Sekonic L-438 and a Pentax Spotmeter V from eBay. Got good deals on all 3.

I have a big, old Gossen LunaPro F that runs on a 9V battery. It still works like a champ. Being able to take incident readings is comforting sometimes...

 

Stay sharp,

Bob

You should memorize it rather than using it.

 

Ha!

The Harris Memory Meter/ exposure calculator had the possibility of : 9 f stops X 20 ISO settings X 10 shutter speed combinations = about 1,800 variations as well the 19 key lighting scenarios. ..... and my memory is unfortunately not as good as it used to be!

Ha!

The Harris Memory Meter/ exposure calculator had the possibility of : 9 f stops X 20 ISO settings X 10 shutter speed combinations = about 1,800 variations as well the 19 key lighting scenarios. ..... and my memory is unfortunately not as good as it used to be!

All you need is to memorize the 19 lighting conditions. The rest you can figure it out from there. Quite easy really.

All you need is to memorize the 19 lighting conditions. The rest you can figure it out from there. Quite easy really.

I don't think 19 covers it ;)