Fuji GW690BLP faint outline on negatives

Hello--

 

I've recently bought a 690 and discovered all of my negatives have this kind of white outline / blurry frame just inside the edge of the frame:

 

 

It's sometimes slightly less visible (I couldn't find any pattern that corresponds to amount of light or angle of it, or using it on a tripod vs viewfinder to my eye), but it's present in every picture, so it's making me lose a good chunk of useable negative...

 

I checked other people's scans online, that had everything, including the sprockets, and seems like nobody has this problem!

 

The camera looks ok on the inside, nothing on the pressure plate that would correspond to this; none of the interior looks worn out in a way that would reflect like this (or so it seems to me). And it's not the viewfinder lines (however unlikely that might be) because those aren't full rectangles. Any ideas what could be the culprit?

 

Any clues would be helpful-- thanks!

I don’t know if this is your specific problem but it looks like the foam seals have deteriorated and really need to be replaced.

It seems to me that the edge of the picture frame is set by a metal frame which sits a tiny way in front of where the film is held on the bright rails. I wonder if that pale frame-line might be made by light which falls on the metal edge and is reflected onto the film. If so, I don't know what you do about it. Examine the inner edge of the metal; is the black paint good, and nicely matte?

thanks for the quick responses!

 

Robert: the seals are all on the door side and appear brand new; I also checked under the pressure plate, all looks great, no crumbling/fraying/anything...

 

Dustin: the only other suspect I can think of here is this, marked with blue arrow:

-- it looks much brighter in the picture because I had to put a desk lamp directly over it, but the interior matte material does leave an black metal edge like this. It, however, appears to be like that by design / since manufacture -- double-checked the ebay shots of the same model, and they all have it like that.

 

Not even sure how to test it to maybe further narrow down the problem. (Is there a simple way to make this bit more matte to eliminate that?)

You could have some fun trying!

You could try sticking a narrow strip of black craft paper to that part, maybe using low-tack tape. Maybe just mask two of the sides, or leave gaps in a pattern, so if this is the problem, you'll see the pattern in the negatives. It will cost you a roll of film to test it.

If you decide that part is causing the problem, then you could work out something that's like strips of craft paper, but more robust for the long term; or you could try to find a good matte black paint. Micro-Tools (.de or .com depending where you are) used to sell it, but it's not listed now. Since it's internal, not exposed to wear or weather, I guess you could use an art paint; hobbycraft (in the uk) sell a matte black acrylic paint for modellers; cheap and water-based!

Does the dark line on the negative (light on the positive) extend between the frames as well as in the frames? If between the frames then likely a light leak in the back of the camera. If only in the frames then possibly a light leak in the front of the camera.

Does the dark line on the negative (light on the positive) extend between the frames as well as in the frames? If between the frames then likely a light leak in the back of the camera. If only in the frames then possibly a light leak in the front of the camera.

 

nope, just in the individual frames. and it's very consistent, too.

 

You could have some fun trying!

You could try sticking a narrow strip of black craft paper to that part, maybe using low-tack tape. Maybe just mask two of the sides, or leave gaps in a pattern, so if this is the problem, you'll see the pattern in the negatives. It will cost you a roll of film to test it.

If you decide that part is causing the problem, then you could work out something that's like strips of craft paper, but more robust for the long term; or you could try to find a good matte black paint. Micro-Tools (.de or .com depending where you are) used to sell it, but it's not listed now. Since it's internal, not exposed to wear or weather, I guess you could use an art paint; hobbycraft (in the uk) sell a matte black acrylic paint for modellers; cheap and water-based!

 

very good idea with masking part of it to diagnose-- thanks for the help!

 

(p.s. also happened to run into your flickr page earlier this afternoon while chasing down some mamiya 645 info :)

Good luck with it!

Are you absolutely sure that the lines are on the negative and caused in camera? It could equally be a reflection off the scanner filmholder edges or enlarger negative carrier.

 

Maybe you've already checked that, but the question had to be asked.

 

Also, are your negatives of normal density? Thin negs will exaggerate any tiny exposure variations like this.

 

The viewfinder has nothing to do with the film exposure, and couldn't possibly cause this effect.

Are you absolutely sure that the lines are on the negative and caused in camera? It could equally be a reflection off the scanner filmholder edges or enlarger negative carrier.

 

Maybe you've already checked that, but the question had to be asked.

 

Also, are your negatives of normal density? Thin negs will exaggerate any tiny exposure variations like this.

 

The viewfinder has nothing to do with the film exposure, and couldn't possibly cause this effect.

 

I scan them on an Epson V600 so it would only cause two of the edges at best (and it would show up on my 6x4.5 scans, which don't have any lines). Thanks for confirming the viewfinder bit, I'd assumed they are completely separate.

 

Got some "Shurtape P743 Black Photo Tape" to mask off a few bits and see if it helps, will report findings -- thanks for the help!

Classically, those lines are caused by the film gate, which is painted metal.

 

There is a metal frame all around the film gate, close and constant distance from the film. Light from the lens outside the frame hits it and can get reflected back towards the film. The edge of this gate is usually painted flat black, but some are slightly shinny, or chipped. Even flat black will reflect some light, the trick is to make this reflection too little to notice. The lines should appear sharper the smaller the aperture you use.

 

Early Yashicamats were really bad this way, and applying a good flat black paint helped.

Classically, those lines are caused by the film gate, which is painted metal.

 

There is a metal frame all around the film gate, close and constant distance from the film. Light from the lens outside the frame hits it and can get reflected back towards the film. The edge of this gate is usually painted flat black, but some are slightly shinny, or chipped. Even flat black will reflect some light, the trick is to make this reflection too little to notice. The lines should appear sharper the smaller the aperture you use.

 

Early Yashicamats were really bad this way, and applying a good flat black paint helped.

 

Thanks Tom!