Surf photography

Being a keen photographer of kite surfers and less birds I often see photographers using D850 with long prime lenses and D500 with 200-500mm, which imho is some heavy stuff to carry around in addition to the tripod.

 

I have the 200-500mm and am wondering, what is the major difference to between using a D500 and setting the D850 to DX in cases, where the subject is far away. Somebody can explain the difference in handling and/or IQ. Instead of the D500 I could have a D7200 available, but yes the AF on the D500 is superior to the D7200, which may be a big advantage for birding, but not a major disadvantage, when used for surf photography I assume.

Not too sure exactly what you're asking here Erik.

 

All I can say is that the pixel density on the D7200 still beats that of a D850 in DX mode. As does that of the D500, marginally.

 

The D850 has 231 pixels per mm, the D500 has 236 pixels/mm, and the D7200 has 256 pixels/mm. So as far as pure 'resolution' goes, the D7200 is the clear winner of the bunch.

 

Whether the higher pixel density will pull any more detail out of your 200-500mm zoom is debatable, and takes no account of what happens at high ISO speeds.

 

I would guess that any difference in IQ is going to be quite slight, and that you'd be happy with the results from any of those cameras. Any limitation, IMO, is going to lie with the lens, stability and atmospheric conditions.

 

So it basically comes down to handling, water/weatherproofing and cost. I'm not sure anyone can really help with such personal choices.

Edited December 23, 2018 by rodeo_joe|1

Besides better AF, the D500 gives you 10 fps instead of 6 from the D7200.

 

Erik, do you already have a D850? If so, the XQD cards are common between the D850 and D500 and are faster. The advantage of using a D850 is that you can see a large area before your subject enters the center of your frame. For action photography, the ability to see a larger area so that you can anticipate the position of your subject a little earlier can potentially a major advantage, depending on your photography preferences.

ShunCheung - No I donot have the D850 yet, but I am considering it, as the price is now USD 2,735 in the local shop. I have the 200-500mm and instead of carrying 2 houses, I was thing of just changing the image area instead of getting a D500, which will save abt. 3 kg for the old man. I will try to get the D850 and may sell the D810 and then use the D7200, and the live with non-XQD cards, 3-4 fps less, assuming I can use the same batteries 15 and 15a.

The advantage of using a D850 is that you can see a large area before your subject enters the center of your frame. For action photography, the ability to see a larger area so that you can anticipate the position of your subject a little earlier can potentially a major advantage, depending on your photography preferences.

The downside of that is that the magnification in the viewfinder of what actually ends up in the image is smaller.

When tracking a subject, the larger sensor area of FX allows one to try to maintain the subject's eye in the center of the image area (which is the sharpest part of the frame, and contains the best AF point) and then crop if needed to obtain the desired composition. When using a DX camera, in some circumstances it may be necessary to move the eye off-center to keep the whole subject in the frame, thus potentially leading to less sharpness in the part of the image containing the eye. (I realize the eye might not be that important in surf photography, but speaking of action photography in general.)

 

Personally I find it tricky to photograph action with a 500mm lens even on FX, and I certainly wouldn't turn it into DX mode - the image area is unnecessarily limited, which can lead to undesired truncation of parts of the subject when it comes closer. If the subject is really far away then you probably should get closer and/or use a longer lens, to get close to filling the frame with the intended subject matter (I never really liked results from cropping deep, though I suppose one does what one has to).

Erik, if you want to use just one camera for everything, the D850 is your obvious upgrade. I thought long and hard about getting either a D500 or a D4S as a second camera for my D800E. I ended up getting the D850 with the grip and three D4/5 batteries. I sold the D800E and get by just fine with a single D850. If I know I would really need two bodies for something in particular, I can rent or borrow a second camera. Like the MB-D12, the MB-D18 has grown on me and I only remove it when I am on vacation and do not want to carry more than necessary. Two spare EN-EL15s keeps me going for long then.

 

The D500 will be an upgrade from your D810 for sports (better af, frame rate - and resolution if you crop somewhat today) but not much else. For landscape and low light work it is a step back. This holds true for the D7200 as well which has higher resolution but less advanced af than the D500. However, the D7200 is the only alternative with a built-in flash.

 

The D850 will be as good as the D500 for sports and outshine your D810 in all areas as an everyday camera. That is why it gets my vote (and got my money). The only trade-off was that I lost a built-in flash (I barely used), everything else was improved upon.

 

My take on the larger view but smaller magnification on the D850 vs the D500:

The larger view really is a noticeable improvement and as I photograph non-predictable subjects (birds) it is more usefull than a higher magnification of a smaller view. However, if you photograph predictably moving subjects the higher magnification is preferable. The D850 is already a step up in terms of magnification from the D810. Add the Nikon DK-17M and you get a 1.2 magnification, which would correspond to a 0.9 magnification. This could also be added to the D500 but there is no way to see more than what ends up on the memory card. (I would advice against using crop modes on DX-cameras.)

 

If you end up with a D850 and a D7200 both can use all iterations of the EN-EL15 batteries.

I first thought you said you were a teen photographer and I sure thought you'd been rode hard and put away wet, until I reread it and saw that it was KEEN photographer:)

My 2 cents: How about a monopod instead of a tripod for keeping the bulk in check? I can recommend an excellent carbon fiber monopod for under $50. *A monopod + a VR lens is a lethal combination and is just what your subject matter calls for.

 

Also consider hauling a foldable stool. Mine weighs around 600 grams and since I got it, it has literally transformed my photography.

For you, sitting down and having a heavy lens resting on a monopod is guaranteed to get you better pictures and a much more pleasant experience.

I first thought you said you were a teen photographer and I sure thought you'd been rode hard and put away wet, until I reread it and saw that it was KEEN photographer:)

 

I have been a teen photographer, but that is about 60 years ago, but is was fun -:)

My 2 cents: How about a monopod instead of a tripod for keeping the bulk in check? I can recommend an excellent carbon fiber monopod for under $50. *A monopod + a VR lens is a lethal combination and is just what your subject matter calls for.

 

Also consider hauling a foldable stool. Mine weighs around 600 grams and since I got it, it has literally transformed my photography.

For you, sitting down and having a heavy lens resting on a monopod is guaranteed to get you better pictures and a much more pleasant experience.

I have both tripod and monopod in the car, and the monopod is often used for the surf photography depending on the condition of the location.

You can still be a teen photographer, photographing teens surfing. ;)

These links may help you with your decision:

 

The D500/D850 Conundrum | DSLRBodies | Thom Hogan

 

Nikon D500 vs Nikon D850 Detailed Comparison

 

Nikon D850 vs. Nikon D500 - Sensor Comparison

 

Nikon D850 review. The best wildlife photography camera ever made.

 

D850 vs D500

 

Nikon D850 Review - Photography Life

Don't need to over-think this. If one specializes in wildlife, I would get the D500 unless you regularly deal with huge animals such as elephants, etc. I have both the D500 and D7200. The D500 has much better AF and faster frame rate. The fact that it can use XQD cards means everything is faster, but there is a cost for all that speed. The D7200 is restricted to UHS-I type SD cards. You can put UHS-II cards in, but they still perform in UHS-I speed.

 

The D850 is more a general-purpose camera. I would go for a D850 if you capture a lot of different subjects rather than being a wildlife specialist.

 

The 200-500 is pretty big. If you need 500mm, the better way to go nowadays is the 500mm PF. My problem is that it is very difficult to find. The catch for all of these is that good, current equipment costs plenty of money.

Edited December 25, 2018 by ShunCheung

An alternative is micro 4/3. With a smaller sensor, and the 2x crop factor, your kit weight drops nicely.

A m4/3 70-300 approx equivalent to a FF 150-600. It is a small package, about the size of my Nikon 18-140.

As I am getting older, to manage the weight of my kit, I have capped my DX/FX lenses at 300mm. Anything longer I shoot with the m4/3 system. This lets me carry the kit where I can't pull my wheeled cart.

Full daylight, lets you shoot down at a lower ISO, so the small sensor penalty is reduced. It will still lag a D850, but it may be 'good enough' for you.

Thank you very much for your comments. The comments I and my wallet likes is the first one from Thom Hogan in the comparison of D500 and D850, which means no need for a D500 for me. The type of photos I do, are Street/street portrait of ethnic people, landscape and Kite Surfing, the latter is the reason I got the 200-500mm, but not used that much, as I have to drive car to the location and stay there overnight. Unfortunately I don’t do any wildlife. My conclusion is therefore, that I get more out of D850 as a general purpose camera, as Shun Cheung also mentions, and now that a local shop has reduced the price by 20%, there will be a little left for a couple of XQD cards and then use my wife’s D7200, if change of lens is not recommended at the location due to weather conditions.

 

Thank you again for all your comments and Merry Christmas.