Hasselblad 500 c/m - can't re-attach a12 back

I took the back off my 500 c/m to try an address a jam, and now I cannot get it back on.

There is a prong on the bottom of the body that sticks out (near the exposure signal window, which is white). The corresponding hole in the magazine is blocked by 2 pieces of metal.

I have not used the Hassy in a decade or more and am pretty clueless on all the interlocking mechanical stuff...

Thanks!

Yes, the dark-slide is inserted all the way in.

That prong is the problem. But half of the metal in the A12 back will press in ok, while the other half won't move.

Either the prong projecting from the body has move out of the way, or the metal in the hole or slot in the magazine has to move inward (or upward).

The prong it connected to the shutter release, as you press the release, the prong comes out. Is the shutter button depressed and locked With a twist?

Sometimes the prong will not spring back with the shutter, depending on the wind state - can you wind and release the body? Does that fix the prong? If not, something is not right with the body.

The dark slide will prevent the prong from inserting into the back (to prevent you from releasing the shutter with the dark slide in) Slide the latch button on the back and hold it, 1/2 pull out the dark slide to release the interlock, and you may be able to attach the back. But that is useless if the prong is not retracting properly.

Thx, I see how the dark slide was preventing the magazine from fitting on. So, now I get it nearly on... but the tabs will not quite lock either moving the button to the side or trying to 'gently' force it on.

The mirror is up on the body. If I push the shutter in and lock it with the lever turned to the T position... nothing seems to change. The winder does not turn in either direction, so I suppose the body is wound but cannot be released (?)

I also cannot remount the lens (Distagon 60/5.6) on the body, despite both of the slots being aligned with the red dots on body & lens.

NEVER FORCE ANYTHING.

Especially if you do not know what you are doing.

If the mirror is UP, the camera is NOT cocked.

Both the body and lens have to be cocked to mount the lens.

The blade and slot have to be HORIZONTAL, so that the blade can slide into the slot.

BTW, do you have a manual for the camera?

If you do not have the manual, download it and read it.

Thx, I see how the dark slide was preventing the magazine from fitting on. So, now I get it nearly on... but the tabs will not quite lock either moving the button to the side or trying to 'gently' force it on.

 

The mirror is up on the body. If I push the shutter in and lock it with the lever turned to the T position... nothing seems to change. The winder does not turn in either direction, so I suppose the body is wound but cannot be released (?)

 

I also cannot remount the lens (Distagon 60/5.6) on the body, despite both of the slots being aligned with the red dots on body & lens.

The problem is in the Body, once that is resolved, the rest will work. So don't try to put/force anything on.

Mirror up and wind not advancing means that the shutter button has been pushed in, and not released (or something inside has not returned), which is why your prong is still sticking out. If you cannot coerce the prong back in (jiggle it, pull it out a bit and release, but don't force it in), then it probably needs to visit a service person.

The blade and slot ARE HORIZONTAL.

I will see what I can do with the prong, assuming that is the only way to release the mirror.

I am amazed that having a visitor push the shutter button while the camera was completely assembled could cause such problems...

The blade and slot ARE HORIZONTAL.

 

I will see what I can do with the prong, assuming that is the only way to release the mirror.

 

I am amazed that having a visitor push the shutter button while the camera was completely assembled could cause such problems...

Well, pushing the shutter button should not do that, but we are talking about ~50 year old equipment, sometime with ~50 year old lube. I know I don't work as well at 50 years... although I probably didn't work that well at 0 years either.

A picture is worth a thousand word. If the mirror is up, the blade should not be horizontal, unless it's just pre-released. Are the barn doors open?

I have not used the Hassy in a decade or more

I am amazed that having a visitor push the shutter button while the camera was completely assembled could cause such problems...

Your first observation may explain the second.

Hasselblads, more than any other camera system, were designed to be used frequently. They are the absolute worst camera to leave sitting in a closet untouched for many years. The mechanisms seize, the lube clumps and sticks, and you end up with a stupefying repair bill (or selling at a dead loss). All the interlocks and mechanics rely on the camera being wound and cocked after every exposure, and the camera assumes you will wind and cock it prior to storing it for any length of time. Lenses should NEVER be removed or attached if the mirror is up, thats usually a good idea with backs as well.

I would just emphasize what others already said: don't force anything. The body seems to be throwing the typical Hasselblad "hasn't been used in years" tantrum: your visitor fired the shutter, the mirror stuck up, the exposure cycle is frozen (the shutter release chain thinks the camera is wound but the rest of the mechanism disagrees). Try removing the film insert from the back and putting it back in, to reset the counter and mount pin slot: in this unwound state it might latch on to the body more cleanly (if not, perhaps it needs its own crank to be wound until it stops). Occasionally, you can get the body cycles re-aligned by jiggling the wind knob while pressing the shutter button slowly in, or pressing the pre-release tab on the body side (near the wind knob). Sometimes carefully winding the emergency clutch in the camera throat (using a small screwdriver thru the back flaps) will release everything and reset it. In any case, the body (and most probably the lens shutter) likely needs an overhaul and re-lube. The A12 magazine should be OK, unless the foam spring in the dark slide slot has decayed (fairly simple DIY repair).

the barn doors are closed but can easily be pushed open

BTW, just to play around, I tried turning the slot head shaft on the body counterclockwise - turns easily and seems to cock the shutter button - still will not accept lens tho it did retract the prong on the rear of the body but not quite all the way. I did get the back mated with the body however, so that is some progress.

Next trick will be to get the lens on the body again.

Next trick will be to get the lens on the body again.

Do NOT attempt this unless/until you can get the body itself to wind and fire smoothly first! The body and lens can have very arcane picayune sync problems: if the body isn't cycling perfectly, you could end up with the lens jammed on the body in a non-usable state that resists the screwdriver trick ($$$ repair bill).

Only try mounting the lens if you are certain the body glitch is resolved (back fits properly, body winds the back and cocks the mirror smoothly, mirror/flaps goes up and down properly as fired and wound). Make sure the lens is cocked (fully open so you can see thru it) before mounting. Do not hesitate when mounting the lens: twist it firmly and quickly into place (any slight hesitation could cause a jam). If the complete camera winds and fires well, keep exercising it as often as possible for several days before you try removing the lens again. Check that all the shutter speeds sound like they are reasonably accurate (no sticking or dragging at speeds below 1/15th).

the barn doors are closed but can easily be pushed open

 

BTW, just to play around, I tried turning the slot head shaft on the body counterclockwise - turns easily and seems to cock the shutter button - still will not accept lens tho it did retract the prong on the rear of the body but not quite all the way. I did get the back mated with the body however, so that is some progress.

 

Next trick will be to get the lens on the body again.

ARGH !!!!

You cock the LENS by turning the link connector, NOT the body.

Your "playing around," poking and turning, will sooner or later break something, if you haven't already.

Take everything in to a pro camera tech; get it put back into operation properly, and get a CLA at the same time.

the shutter is open on the lens

the back is now fitted properly on the body

I do not understand the following:

"body winds the back and cocks the mirror smoothly, mirror/flaps goes up and down properly as fired and wound"

The winding knob does not move in either direction.

As for taking it in to a Pro Tech, my understanding is that will cost several hundred dollars. True? If so, it is not worth it to me, as technology has turned these bodies into ergonomically esthetic toys as compared to digital cameras.

I am interested in getting it working again if I can do it myself or for not too great a sum. And I do appreciate everyone's help in furthering that goal.

I do not understand the following:

"body winds the back and cocks the mirror smoothly, mirror/flaps goes up and down properly as fired and wound"

By that I meant: when you fire the camera the mirror goes all the way up (does not sag) and the back flaps fully open, then fully close when you let go of the shutter button. The knob winds smoothly until it stops, as it winds the mirror lowers and then locks down for viewing.

I've used Hasselblads for fifteen years, and gone thru many malfunctioning second-hand bodies and lenses to build my kit. In my experience, a frozen winding knob that will not move when the mirror is up is a problem not easily DIY repaired. The inner body needs to be pulled out of the shell, at minimum. Someone with knowledge of the mechanism can sometimes then fix the seize simply by releasing the part of the mechanism thats stuck, resetting the cycle, then re-assembling the camera. Even then, its usually advisable to have the body fully overhauled by a tech: that kind of temporary seize indicates deeper issues brewing.

If you aren't particularly interested in ever shooting with this Hasselblad again, I strongly advise selling it as-is on eBay or some other venue. The lens, A12 and waist level finder are worth more when sold separate from the body. If you keep poking around casually, you might damage enough to further erode the resale value. A good-condition "as-is" 80mm Planar lens alone can easily fetch $300, the A12 $125, the WLF $75, and a malfunctioning 500cm body $150. Either sell it and pocket the proceeds, or budget $400-$650 to have it professionally serviced (body, lens and back all together at same time). Yes, a dead Hassy is a very VERY expensive thing to resuscitate: this isn't a camera system one can "dabble" in at low cost. Sooner or later, every Hassy lens, body and back will need such a servicing.

I did say a picture tells a thousand words.

the barn doors are closed but can easily be pushed open

 

BTW, just to play around, I tried turning the slot head shaft on the body counterclockwise - turns easily and seems to cock the shutter button ... (snip)

This means the key was not horizontal, but at an angle - unless it's completely out of sync. You description of horizontal did not match our understanding of horizontal. Hence pictures.

I would get the body firing without the lens or back first, because if that is not working properly, then you run the risk that whatever you attach to it will get jammed.

The reason Gary suggests taking it in to a store/tech that is familiar with these things, is that you will get a person that will tell you how it's suppose to work and what is not working properly, and what not to do. I've never seen someone charge for this advice. You can decide yourself if you want to pay for repair or a cleaning and lube. Trying to diagnose the problem with just words is prone to misunderstandings, as the above has shown. But we still like to try!

Troubleshooting by text is extreeeeeemly difficult. We cannot see what your eye is seeing, nor can we read your mind.

Any miscommunication / misinterpretation / misunderstanding with the resulting wrong action can result in a damaged camera.

Again, get the manual, and RTFM.

And stop guessing and playing around when you don't know what you are doing. Or expect that you will damage/break the camera.

At a certain point, you have to give up and hand it off to a pro to fix, or sell it.

If you intend to keep it and use it, as @orsetto said, you should send it in and pay for a CLA anyway. If the 40+ year old grease has dried up, rather than lubricating, it can be sticking parts together, and preventing them from moving. In my other hobby I have seen grease that had dried and hardened so much that it was almost SOLID, and NOTHING COULD MOVE.

I have read the manual, thank you. There is no tech anywhere near me so it would have to be shipped.

Again, I am interested in seeing if I can get the body functioning. I can take pics and (hopefully) post them if someone can tell me what part of of the body they would like pics of...

Tom, the 'slot' on the body shaft certainly looks horizontal. Would a photo of it help?

BTW, the lens is a 60mm/5.6 - apparently pretty old and not very common.

I have read the manual, thank you. There is no tech anywhere near me so it would have to be shipped.

 

Again, I am interested in seeing if I can get the body functioning. I can take pics and (hopefully) post them if someone can tell me what part of of the body they would like pics of...

 

Tom, the 'slot' on the body shaft certainly looks horizontal. Would a photo of it help?

 

BTW, the lens is a 60mm/5.6 - apparently pretty old and not very common.

That is a problem, there are fewer people around that know how to use old film cameras.

A picture always helps, more than most people think. Dose the slot and key match the diagram I posted above from the Hasselblad manual, it's showing the lower part of the body's lens mount (top) and the matching part on the lens (bottom). However, as long as nothing is broken, and both parts are tensions (body wound and lens key wound clockwise), then they are ready. But I strongly recommend that you do not try to attach the lens until the body is functioning as it should.

The body should wind and release all on it's own, with nothing attached. If it is not doing that, I don't recommend attaching anything unless you really know what you are doing. Get the body working first.

The 60mm f/5.6 is from the 1600F/1000F era, it was continued when the 500C came out for a few years before being replaced by the current 60mm. I've never used one, and most people seem to want them as collectors. Being that old, it is the old lube that is the issue. Mechanically they are robust, but the lube Zeiss used in that era has a tendency to resinefy over time, acting like glue. Hasselblads were also used professionally, so many were regularly serviced, with many still working. But independent service centers over time added various amounts/types of lube, which sometime results in other issues.

Well, I know how to use my old Nikon film cameras it is the hassle-blad that is causing problems...

anyway, here are photos of 2 different orientations of the shaft in the body - by moving the speed wind tab on the side, I can rotate the shaft counterclockwise easily and then trip the shutter - that is also why there are the two orientations (one has the raised tab on the LH side; the other on the RH side at the bottom of the tab on the shaft)

Your photos confirm that the body is malfunctioning and needs to be serviced. Believe me, I've been in your shoes: hoping to hear of some DIY trick to make the camera work again. Unfortunately, that is rarely the answer: aside from clearing the occasional simple jam with a screwdriver, and replacing worn dark slide foams, there are no simple DIY repairs.

The Hasselblad firing/winding system is an excruciatingly complex mechanical timing ballet. Understand, the shaft does not simply rotate when you press the shutter button: it pauses a couple times at very precise intervals. If this timing is off by the tiniest fraction of a second, the body mechanism seizes and/or the lens/back get jammed. Your body is very clearly seized: while you've been able to coax the shaft key into proper lens mounting position (tail up, aligned with red dot), the mirror is stuck in the up position. That means the mechanism is out of sync: no way, no how should the mirror be up while the drive key is in lens mount position. After firing, with the mirror up, the drive key should be pointed just above the red dot (at the edge of the baffle), tail up. Pre- or post-firing, the shaft key should be locked in position (not easily moved with your fingers). The shaft key position shown in your second pic is all sorts of wrong. The mirror staying up is wrong. If jiggling and playing with the wind knob and shutter button don't spontaneously drop the mirror, its frozen. If you mount the lens to a body in this condition, you risk it getting stuck.

Even if you don't care, even if you get lucky and the lens goes on and off easily, the camera is still not working properly (and trust me, it will get worse). It needs an overhaul. As the years passed and pro Hasselblad photographers migrated to the newer electronic H digital system, the nationwide Hasselbald mechanical repair network dwindled to almost nothing. Most of us now need to ship our Hassy gear to some distant tech for pricey repairs, just as vintage Rolleiflex and Leica M owners are stuck with less tech options than they can count on one hand. Its the world we live in now: if you want to use a vintage premium system, high repair costs from out-of-town techs comes with the territory.

When my Hasselblad pieces break, I always take a breath and consider whether it would be better to repair or replace. Almost always, I decide to replace: in todays market, you can sell a dead Hasselblad body for roughly half the cost of a replacement body, then buy the replacement. The repair cost on a malfunctioning body is usually at parity with simply buying a functional replacement, and buying a replacement can get you running weeks or months faster if its your only body. Yes, its true that replacing risks another fault developing down the line, but paying blood money for a repair is no guarantee either: I've had bodies serviced by very reputable techs go out on me again within a year. Keep in mind, the system was originally designed to sell for the price of a car, and be serviced at yearly intervals (Hasselblad set up their service network long before they marketed their cameras). Things can and will break down: some owners are super lucky and go ten years without a glitch, others have pieces go out in annoying rotation (fix the lens, a month later the body goes out, fix the body, three months later the back goes out: wash, rinse, repeat until you go bankrupt).

The 60mm f/5.6 was only made between 1957-1961. It is rare to see one of these paired with a later body than 500c. Viewing/focusing this slow wide lens thru the older 500c viewfinder screen would be utter torture: its bad enough with the 80mm f/2.8 Planar. Even with an Acute Matte in the 500cm, this lens would be a PITA to use. It is somewhat collectible due to low volume (approx 2200 made), but fetches good money ($400-$600) only if working perfectly. Most of them have gummed up shutters, which limits the sale price to half that at best (since repair will cost as much or more). Again, I'd suggest just selling everything unless you seriously think you might return to Hasselblad photography. Even then, I think you'd be better served replacing all the pieces (except maybe keep the A12). A newer 500cm with black 60mm f/4 CT*, black 50mm f/4 CT*, or any 80mm f/2.8 lens in good working order might be a more usable investment than repairing the (really old) body and lens you have now.

Hassy tells me that "there is no cost for evaluation. The typical cost for a V-system service is $300."

I'm not clear on what a V-system is; seems like this should be a C system of a 500C system. Anyway, I'll send it n to them once the package transport system clears after the holidaze.

Yes, it was torture trying to focus the 5.6 lens - one reason I never shot many rolls of film with it.

Well, I know how to use my old Nikon film cameras it is the hassle-blad that is causing problems...

 

anyway, here are photos of 2 different orientations of the shaft in the body - by moving the speed wind tab on the side, I can rotate the shaft counterclockwise easily and then trip the shutter - that is also why there are the two orientations (one has the raised tab on the LH side; the other on the RH side at the bottom of the tab on the shaft)

The first photo shows the body fully cocked. The lens (if also properly cocked) should mount unless it is broken, or one of the pins on the body are whacked because a lens was forced on/off. Everything there looks OK though. The mirror should be down at that position, but since you have been winding the key instead of the wind knob, that's not surprising.

The second photo shows the body partially release, and the key is not in a position where it would normally stop - so something is wrong with the body. The thing you call a "speed wind tab" is likely the mirror pre-release? Perhaps you should look at the manual, it is available from butkus.org to download for free (maybe you already have). When the mirror pre-release is triggered, the mirror goes up, the barn doors open, and the key should stop about a 1/8 rotation further prior to your picture. After that, pressing the shutter should rotate the key until it is vertial (which triggers the shutter in the lens). So you have triggered the shutter, but the key got stuck before it reached the vertical position.