Leica M10-D

I've been wishing that Nikon make a DSLR with manual focus, A and M exposure modes only and separate LCD but Nikon doesn't dare to make one. So I take the Df which I think it's as good as Nikon can do. There won't be a better Nikon than the Df for me.

I actually do think that's a way that Nikon might have done better with the Df (lopping off the rear LCD to make it thinner) - although I'm not sure their software team were entirely up to it. I maintain that the Df could have been "done better", likely in a way that would actually have even been preferable for BeBu, but I somewhat doubt enough sell that Nikon will rush to produce a Df2 (given that the D610 and D750, which surely must sell better, are still due a dSLR replacement and they've got a whole new system to launch). We'll see whether Leica's engineers are any good at app software...

 

That said, the M10-D saves about 1mm of thickness compared with the M10-P (which has a screen). Screens have become pretty thin these days. The M Edition 60, which also lacks a screen, is even thicker. If it's just a case of not allowing yourself to be distracted by the screen (and self-restraint isn't adequate), I suspect someone somewhere sells opaque screen protectors - and if not, surely there are plenty of film photographers out there with supplies of masking tape. I now vaguely want to investigate a rotating screen protector that's polarised, so you can choose to black out the screen but change your mind in an emergency. But even I have slightly more practical product ideas.

I agree that the Df would have nicer if had been both narrower and especially thinner.

I'm not sure what a 'separate LCD' would be? An smartphone?

Also, I can't see how a black (non-operating) rear LCD is distracting? Would a small LCD that only displays histograms be less distracting?

The ability to check exposure immediately after shooting...without having to wait for film processing... is one of the great advantages of digital stills over film.

I agree that the Df would have nicer if had been both narrower and especially thinner.

I'm not sure what a 'separate LCD' would be? An smartphone?

 

That's Leica's solution. It's not unreasonable, so long as you actually have a smartphone with you and don't mind any synchronisation overhead. Phones tend to have much better screens than cameras. On the other hand, having two devices to deal with is fairly unwieldy, and the first thing I'd do is find a clamp to attach the phone to the camera.

 

Also, I can't see how a black (non-operating) rear LCD is distracting?

 

That's my position too (and I have absolutely no problem with menus on a dSLR, so long as you don't have to dive into them when shooting) - but it does make the Df less "like an F3". Leica claim that the lack of LCD frees the user from distractions; I think I have enough restraint not to use the LCD unless I need to. Having a phone connection at least gives you a choice.

 

Would a small LCD that only displays histograms be less distracting?

 

One of my wish list items is to have a way for the histogram to be visible in the viewfinder. I can think of ways to do that with an optical finder, although there are more obvious ways to do it with an EVF (and indeed you can get it on the rear LCD).

 

The ability to check exposure immediately after shooting...without having to wait for film processing... is one of the great advantages of digital stills over film.

 

No argument from me, especially since I don't entirely trust the AF accuracy or metering on recent Nikon dSLRs. Presumably waiting until you get home to see whether you've had the camera on the wrong settings the whole time is a way to bring back the excitement of waiting for a roll of ruined film to be processed.

.....and those nice Leica people make mono models too!

 

No screen, no colour, no AF.... what's not to like?

 

But £6500.. really?

.....and those nice Leica people make mono models too!

 

No screen, no colour, no AF.... what's not to like?

 

But £6500.. really?

 

Of course, it's only $650 in the US. :-)

 

(Actually $8000, which is almost a sensible exchange rate.)

Ironically, keeping the wifi open to operate the camera from your cell is said to run down the batteries even faster than having a screen to check exposure on the camera. So if you buy this camera, you probably want to be the type who DOESN'T actually use the cellphone much.

 

Heck, the reason I converted to digitals (mostly) was that I liked knowing what the picture looked like before getting back home. To me, that's one of the principle advantages of digital. Sure there is the "no film and processing costs" thing too, but mainly I make mistakes (not a pro) and I like to see them earlier than when I'm scanning.

Well, at least when your camera battery runs flat, you'll find that you can't phone for a taxi to take you home, because your phone will be flat as well. :-)

 

And agreed. I think I do have a digital camera somewhere that has no screen on the back (other than the GoPro, but I have an accessory screen for that), but that's because the camera in question is credit card sized and cost about £20.

 

Leica are their own little niche when it comes to usability. I wouldn't be surprised if the target customer is not the smartphone crowd, but at least it's an option for configuration that you don't get if there's no menu system at all.

I like that Leica is prepared to be experimental. I'm just imagining Nikon or Canon making a black and white camera, or a camera with no screen in back or a camera with no meter and it's just inconceivable. Someone asked on a podcast if anyone is ever going to make another high end film camera and the answer was just laughter really. I suspect the only company who might do something that crazy might be Leica (though it would probably be some kind of special edition). I'll bet not too many manufacturers are even maintaining their old film cameras. I wonder what support Nikon and Canon users of late model film cameras get at their companies. I hope they're still getting supported. Leica is certainly unique. I'm glad they're still around to confound expectations.

 

All that said, I want a screen.

No-one expected the Nikon D810A, but it appeared..........:cool:

 

Mono-D850 or Z7...?

 

Seriously it's not hard to do. If you can butcher the chip after it's been made to be a decent mono performer, you can take it off the production line before all that colour making stuff is added. Afterall, the chip is entirely monochrome underneath anyway.

 

There are RAW converters already that can handle these mono Franken-Files.

Well, there used to be the mono backs from Kodak, which were Nikon-based (I think). A monochrome Df variant wouldn't be shocking to me. You can kind of achieve it by grinding off the filters, but it's not as trivial as just leaving out the IR filter (which I suspect Nikon did because it was easy - I effectively have this with a replacement filter for my D90, and it cost barely more than a used D90 normally would). Whether they sell in enough quantities to interrupt the sensor production line is another matter.

 

I don't believe Canon still supports the 1v. If Nikon "makes" the F6 still, I'm sure it's in the "we still have some on a shelf" sense. Leica are actively still making the M-P I believe, but then they only ever made them in low quantities, and they're not exactly full of cutting-edge features. An "F7" would really benefit from the D850's AF module and meter (despite the fact I just complained about both), and it's not going to be cheap to put together, after which you'd get a grainy image which in common film stocks might be about 6MP, and then cost 30p/exposure to shoot and develop (commercially). As a concept, I'd love an F7 to exist (with my magical request for an actual "do everything" lens mount), but I'm not going to buy one. If they didn't do it for the 100th anniversary, I strongly doubt Nikon will do it at all.

 

But then I didn't expect the Df, so I know nothing.

(with my magical request for an actual "do everything" lens mount

 

I guess that's what the Z-mount has/will become. It's uber short flange distance means pretty much every known system from pre-mirrorless days can easily be made to fit mechanically with no optics required.

I guess that's what the Z-mount has/will become. It's uber short flange distance means pretty much every known system from pre-mirrorless days can easily be made to fit mechanically with no optics required.

 

"Mounts everything" isn't "do everything"! I think it should be possible to make a modern electronic mount that supports pre-AI bunny ears and has a mechanical feeler for the AI-S maximum lens speed post (and the focal length post). I don't think anything clashes. I'd be interested to see it tried. Not for any practical reason, to be clear.

Well, there used to be the mono backs from Kodak, which were Nikon-based (I think). A monochrome Df variant wouldn't be shocking to me. You can kind of achieve it by grinding off the filters, but it's not as trivial as just leaving out the IR filter (which I suspect Nikon did because it was easy - I effectively have this with a replacement filter for my D90, and it cost barely more than a used D90 normally would). Whether they sell in enough quantities to interrupt the sensor production line is another matter.

 

I don't believe Canon still supports the 1v. If Nikon "makes" the F6 still, I'm sure it's in the "we still have some on a shelf" sense. Leica are actively still making the M-P I believe, but then they only ever made them in low quantities, and they're not exactly full of cutting-edge features. An "F7" would really benefit from the D850's AF module and meter (despite the fact I just complained about both), and it's not going to be cheap to put together, after which you'd get a grainy image which in common film stocks might be about 6MP, and then cost 30p/exposure to shoot and develop (commercially). As a concept, I'd love an F7 to exist (with my magical request for an actual "do everything" lens mount), but I'm not going to buy one. If they didn't do it for the 100th anniversary, I strongly doubt Nikon will do it at all.

 

But then I didn't expect the Df, so I know nothing.

 

Not that I need a film camera because I have enough of them to last for the rest of my life. However, if someone makes a film camera that I want to buy it would not one with cutting edge technology but rather a simple and featureless one. My problem is that I really like what Leica did for their cameras but I don't want a rangefinder but Leica rangefinders are the only ones that I think they did right.

Leica fans will buy Leicas, now matter how expensive or chronically disabled. Consequently, their designers can do no wrong. If there were a significant market for LCD-less digital cameras, you'd see more of them, some with Nikon or Canon labels. The EVF is another matter, and there are dozens of digital cameras without an eye-level viewfinder.

 

If film cameras had the option of an instantaneous review, I'm also sure they would have been abundant. If you don't like the LCD, turn it off or simply ignore it. Just don't let us catch you peeping ;)

Maybe Leica ought to fit a timer too, so that you can't actually see the picture you've just taken for another 48 hours - or 7 days for colour?

 

A counter to block use for 3 minutes every 36 exposures? Or alternatively a clockwork driven generator that's only good for powering 36 shots?

 

An ISO dial that doesn't go above 400? Together with a button labeled 'push' that actually does nothing except increase the contrast of the image?

 

There's this thing called 'progress'. Everyone's entitled to ignore it or embrace it. As they wish.

One for the EMBRACE queue please...:)

I've been wishing that Nikon make a DSLR with manual focus, A and M exposure modes only and separate LCD but Nikon doesn't dare to make one. So I take the Df which I think it's as good as Nikon can do. There won't be a better Nikon than the Df for me.

Simple piece of duct tape can fix all your problems:).

I've obviously been buying the wrong brand....

 

My duct tape can do non of those things......:(

 

However, if you rip it off the reel in the complete dark, you can make lightning!

Simple piece of duct tape can fix all your problems:).

That is why if Nikon were to make a camera my way it's custom made and I certainly can't afford it. If I won the 1.5 billion loto I would ask Nikon to make me one of those.

If I won the 1.5 billion loto I would ask Nikon to make me one of those.

 

- Nikon Europe would charge you €1,500,000,001..... plus VAT.

- Nikon Europe would charge you €1,500,000,001..... plus VAT.

I wouldn't deal with Nikon Europe. I would deal with Nikon Japan and have them make it in Japan not in Thailand. I am sure I can work out a deal with them for a bit less than that.

The DF with the AF set to M, any of my great old lenses, and most of the new ones is manual focus whenever I want it to be. I keep the screen on the back of the camera shut off - I have to deliberately press a button to view it. Most often, for a relatively short shooting session, under normal light conditions I see images (after the first check) for the first time when I have uploaded to the computer. The DF was intended for folks who had worked their way up the Nikon film camera line over the years (and had legacy lenses) - to us, it is a comfortable size, and as intended, the handling is similar to the older cameras. I have two smaller mirrorless, Leica D Lux and the full Ricoh GXR system. They are very good cameras, but I use them mostly for special purposes and when I am not on a "photo mission" they are just too small for comfort, and frankly less useful all around photographic tools. The will take very good photos, and I post their output regularly, though less than that from my Nikons. In my case, it is a matter of taste and history!

That is why if Nikon were to make a camera my way it's custom made and I certainly can't afford it. If I won the 1.5 billion loto I would ask Nikon to make me one of those.

 

If you'd like me to break some bits of your Df for you, BeBu (cutting some contacts to the screen, disconnecting autofocus, wedging the mode dial so you can't select P or S), I'll gladly do it for less than 1.5 billion. I suspect I'd find it quite cathartic. :-)

If you'd like me to break some bits of your Df for you, BeBu (cutting some contacts to the screen, disconnecting autofocus, wedging the mode dial so you can't select P or S), I'll gladly do it for less than 1.5 billion. I suspect I'd find it quite cathartic. :)

Nah! I don't think you can make a decent looking camera.