Advice for a Colour Film Photographer who wants to shoot B&W Film

Funny that.

I'd wager, there are quite a few here who did the yearbook. I also have a few rolls from those days - somehow the negatives from most of the best shots haven't yet emerged. Suspect they are long gone. And here we go, off topic.

We’re still talking about shooting black and white.

Funny thing is I had forgotten talking those black and white photos back then.

Ever since I have shot color, and now all these years later I am getting into black and white again.

It occurs to me that part of the appeal of the black and white was a subconscious nostalgia for those memories.

Just another of Life’s circles.....

We’re still talking about shooting black and white.

(snip)

The process for generating black and white pages for yearbooks is only blue sensitive, so color prints don't work well.

There are special blue pencils for doing layout that won't show up in the final page.

(And color pages cost much more.)

So, yes, another reason for doing black and white photography.

What IS the proper B&W paper to print these negs on?

Well, I confess that I scan the images into my computer and print them on a reasonably high quality printer that does good B&W. I no longer have the space to run a print lab.

Well, I confess that I scan the images into my computer and print them on a reasonably high quality printer that does good B&W. I no longer have the space to run a print lab.

I suspect that is more and more common.

It seems that there is (or was) an RA-4 black and white paper:

https://125px.com/docs/paper/kodak/g4006.pdf

But sometimes it is nice to have real silver images.

Hi

First of all - sorry to take so long to get back to you all - I have been away on holiday to Berlin and come back to a heavy work load. Secondly, thank you for your generous and helpful responses - typical of this site.

So, this is how I am going to approach B&W photography:

1. Think more carefully about the actual picture in terms of its merit before I click - thank you Donald Miller. I agree. I need to think more graphically and artistically (shapes and forms). Slow down in other words. Be aware of shadow areas that might block up or bright areas that might blow out.

2. Consider the use of say graduated filters/other filters to get the balance of exposure right first time when dealing with contrast in a scene (remember I am thinking of trying to get decent prints right first time and I do not have the time or space to develop my own). Also think more about metering processes. Thank you Sandie and k.mac and Wouter And yes - a good monochrome picture is worth its weight in gold.

3. Think about materials. I have stuck with FP4 and Tri-X 400 but I now also have some Delta100/400. On holiday in Berlin I came across something now very rare in England - a good old fashioned film camera shop on! I couldn't believe it when I walked in - I was giggling like a child in a sweet shop to the point where the German proprietor asked me about my mirth and I had to reassure him that I was not going mad. The place was full of film cameras - no digital at all. So I bought a roll of APX 100 and Kosmofoto 100 (rebadged Formapan 100). I have used XP2 Super and it is amazing stuff and will use it again.

Wouter - that B&W landscape is beautiful - if I can get pictures like that I will be content. My only concern with XP2 is that I find many tones of grey but true blacks tended to elude me. Hence why I am trying out silver halide a little more.

4. Come to terms with the Zone system - yes indeed James. I will investigate.

5. Alan Klein - I love your pictures. I am heavily into 35mm and cannot justify moving up but if I could afford it, MF(even a basic 645 kit) would be my next step up. We'll see if my fortunes change eh?

BTW the shop in Berlin is called 'Click & Surr' and it is on Garten Strasse, some 20 minutes away from Berlin's main railway station. Here is their English page and it looks as though their Kodak G100 slide film has been delivered according to their face book page.

clickundsurr.de/en/

Once again thank you ALL for your comments and suggestions.

(snip)

 

Wouter - that B&W landscape is beautiful - if I can get pictures like that I will be content. My only concern with XP2 is that I find many tones of grey but true blacks tended to elude me. Hence why I am trying out silver halide a little more.

 

(snip)

 

I believe XP2 has the low gamma usual for C41 films. If you scan it as a C41 film, it should come out just fine.

If you print on color negative paper, with appropriate filtering, it should also work, assuming usual exposure and scenery.

(Many now scan the negative and print the scanned image, with the same result.)

If you print on traditional black and white papers, you will need a higher contrast, maybe about grade 4 in

paper or variable contrast filter.

XP-2 excels when shot at around EI 200 and used under moderate to high contrast situations. Like all C-41 films XP-2 has a very, very long shoulder and is basically impossible to over expose because of the super high lattitude of color neg films. Outside on sunny days, studio portraiture etc XP-2 does very well and will produce very lush highlights that anything but the best handled conventional B&W films will turn into a gritty mess.

It also pushed a stop very nicely. Helps perk up the contrast.

Where people screw up with XP-2 is under expose it, shoot it under low contrast situations like over cast skies, and/or subject it to minilab processing and expect fine art results. It's also not happy when shot on variable contrast papers above grade 3 because color dye clouds tend to get very harsh on multicontrast paper. Printed on graded paper and over exposed a tad it was a gorgeous medium to work with. About as close to old verichrome as you'll ever get. Because it didn't have that stupid mask that Kodak T-400CN did you got a bit more density range with XP-2.

Getting dmax or dmin has nothing to do with 'silver' or anything else. It's using the appropriate film for the brightness range of the scene, and if using conventional B/W film adjusting processing accordingly. Expose for the shadows / develop for the highlights. Unfortunately XP-2 is pretty much locked into one contrast range. Underexpose it under low contrast lighting and you'll never recover it.

Hi There

 

Through out my life I have been chiefly a 35mm colour photographer starting off on C41 and then graduating to E6. I have also used B&W film too but not as much.

 

I am formerly 35mm colour landscape photographer trying to be like Galen Rowell but based in the UK.

 

E6 photography is getting really expensive now and although I have a digital camera, I love the analogue photography process so I am now edging towards being totally B&W on the analogue side. The expense is made easier by the fact that I can still get films from Ilford of 24 exposures which keeps the cost down (I used to be able to get Tri-X 24 exposures in the UK too but now that is getting harder and I love Tri-X - it is so easy to work with). So, I will be trying Delta 400, 100 etc., and using my old B&W favourite HP4.

 

My question is does anyone have any good tips for getting decently exposed pictures in B&W? I am not in a position to develop my own film and have to rely on a lab and sometimes the results can be variable. Therefore, exposure and filtration need to come together I suppose to make every shot count with decent, balanced exposures. I have used B&W in the past for photographs of my children as they have grown up and the odd scenic and the results have been very rewarding.

 

The other factor of B&W photography is one of the 'inner eye'. As a colour photographer I know what I am looking for given the materials I am using and how to control them. Sometimes the colours make the photo - not the subject (do you see what I mean?).

 

But what are the rules (if any) for B&W scenic photography? To me, the lack of colour means that there is more emphasis on content or graphic quality Have I got this right?

 

In short, how does a B&W photographer think?

 

Many thanks!

Well first, different films give you a very different image. There are fewer these days, but there are still some so I'd try a variety of different films to see what appeals to you. Second, It's not hard to process black and white film, all you need is developer, stop bath, and fixer (and if you want Hypo Clear and Photo Flo). The materials are cheap and the temperature control is less critical than color. You don't need a darkroom, just a changing bag, a development tank, a thermometer, and some chemicals. It's probably going to be even harder to find someone to develop your B&W than it is E6. But it's easy and satisfying and a little magical.

At that point you will need a scanner, and film scanners are also in short supply, though flatbed scanning may be a bunch better these days. Third, there's always just using your digital camera and converting to black and white, which is pretty rewarding. Plus you can even get a camera converted to black and white (some cameras) by removing the Bayer filter. Some cameras come that way like the Leica Monocroms but they are expensive.

If you can't get Tri-X (my choice of film when I still shoot it) you might look into getting 100' rolls and a bulk film loader (I have 2). You can freeze it too, so you could buy more than one roll and freeze the ones you are not using. Then you'll need film cartridges, reloadable ones hopefully. I don't know for sure all that is still available, but if it is, that should make the film cheaper and lay in a supply.

Black and white film is a lot more forgiving in latitude than color slides are. If you can expose for slides (E6) then black and white should be easier. You might look into the Zone system, if only to get an appreciation for evaluating a scene for proper exposure.

The scenes that work in Black and white rely more on form and pattern rather than color, which is obvious I know. Which is why I would start by taking your color shots on computer and using some program like Photoshop or Aperture or Lightroom, etc. to convert them to black and white. Maybe even buy a book on black and white conversion and experiment. You might find that the control you have in converting a color image to black and white is pretty appealing. Using a red filter to brighten red and darken green may be a time honored standard, but you can do much the same thing AFTER THE FACT on the computer.

"Seeing" in black and white IS hard. It takes practice and time. I'm no expert. But you CAN do this in digital. If you do choose film (and that's great if you do), then developing the film will be way easier than finding someone to do it for you and bulk rolling your film will probably be cheaper and easier than locating a source of film you can buy by the roll. AND if you don't have a darkroom, you need to research scanners. I have a good one that is no longer in production, so when it breaks, I'll be in the same boat. But with a scanner, the "printing" part can be relegated to the computer and (if you wish) an inkjet printer. Be aware that ink for an inkjet is expensive and if it isn't used consistently, the inkjets clog up. If you decide to print, do it a lot, or at least regularly.

Good luck.

if I can get pictures like that I will be content. My only concern with XP2 is that I find many tones of grey but true blacks tended to elude me. Hence why I am trying out silver halide a little more.

Thanks for the compliment.... appreciate it. I have to admit, that image was not taken on XP2, it's Delta 100 developed in Perceptol (which I find a great combination of film/developer). That said, I have worked with XP2 and really find it great film. XP2 is in my experience easier to scan than normal B&W film, so in 'hybrid' workflows, it makes a great choice. I only stopped using XP2 because I like developing film myself.

And thanks, now I am sure I need to return to Berlin :-)

particularly for use in cranky old cameras wielded by similar individuals!

Hey! It took a while, but that just sank in!

The one small tip - consider contrast vs. color. When I was working at photography frequently using films alternately on the same shoot, I used a B&W viewing filter. Tiffen still makes one.

Kodak Wratten # 90.