Hasselblad 500C mirror does not raise

I just took delivery of a "bargain" 500C and believe there is a problem with it. (yes I know the most expensive Hasselblad or Mercedes is a cheap one) :)

 

I removed the back and when I fire the shutter release, nothing happens. I would expect the mirror to flip up and the blinds to open (maybe in reverse order) but they do not. I can manually lift the mirror and at that point if I fire the shutter the blinds open. When I run the winding knob through its rotation the mirror will return and the blinds close but I am back at the point where the mirror does not raise when the shutter release is depressed.

 

Any suggestions on how to resolve this other than to turn it over to a repair service? I have the skills to repair cameras and intricate mechanical devices but no experience with a Hasselblad. Thanks

Short version: the body timing is off and/or something is sticking. The Hasselblad mechanism is a convoluted ballet of intricate spring and gear timing: one glitch and the body is useless until serviced by a pro. Hasselblad is one of the least DIY-amenable systems ever made: unless you paid very little for it and don't care if you make things worse, don't tinker with it. Send it to a pro.

 

Long version: your 500C is the earliest body model, typical examples are easily 50 years old or more. Aside from the normal age-related issues common to any Hasselblad, the 500C had teething pains as Hasselblad made several running changes to the mechanism in response to feedback from photographers and repair technicians. There was some resistance to these part improvements from some less-savvy techs back in the day, resulting in a number of 500C bodies being more gummed up inside today than they should be. For these reasons, any malfunctioning 500C is best left to the skills of a factory trained tech who knows the first-generation bodies inside out, such as David Odess. Of course, such service will not be inexpensive, and you should weigh this cost against the option of trading a funky 500c toward a newer 500cm with more uniform mechanicals and interchangeable focus screen. Given the age and fixed. dim screen most people would find trading toward a newer 500cm the better long-term use of money than repairing a failing 500C (the exception being very late 500Cs with interchangeable screens: these are actually early 500cm bodies that would be worth repairing).

 

If you really really want to try fixing it yourself, search the DIY repair threads here and tutorial videos on youTube. Keep in mind, successful DIY repair of a Hasselblad body or lens involves equal parts luck and skill: there were at least a dozen bespoke tools and jigs Hasselblad furnished to authorized repair shops that were required for proper calibration. Seat of the pants repairs made without these OEM jigs and tools can work out OK, but theres always a risk of tricky issues like film plane registration inaccuracy, hair trigger jamming, etc.

Edited September 17, 2018 by orsetto

Thanks Orsetto for the reply. The previous silence was killing me :)

 

Interestingly, when working on old cameras,(especially European ones (hello Zeiss, Pentacon, Hasselblad, Exacta, etc.; I'm talking to you) solidified/petrified/no-longer-lubified grease is usually the culprit. In this case it is the absolute absence of any lubricant which is causing the mirror to stay immobile upon shutter release. Not sure if the guy who assembled mine originally had had a bad weekend or not but someone forgot to lube the bellcrank that operates the mirror! It is suffering from the effects of Rightfully Unwanted Surface Tarnish (RUST)

 

I searched the web and found nothing on this problem. There were a few videos and tutorials on problems like "how to get your 503cw out of the case" or what to do with a sticky 500C auxiliary shutter, but none on mirror issues. There is nothing written in forums on this either; trust me, I looked.

 

Bottom line is that inside the body, there is a single screw holding a cover over the mirror bellcrank and its pivot assembly. The challenge is getting at the screw due to the angle of attack being restricted by the lack of any way to reach it without a special fine bladed 90 degree screwdriver. Those with a little ingenuity will figure out a way to loosen that screw; its not impossible. Once the screw and cover are off, you can service the mirror bellcrank and pivot to your heart's delight without disturbing anything. It can be removed from inside the body once you remove the retaining screw on the other side of the mechanism (the screw holding the center gear). In my case, not knowing what we know now, I came at it from the other side and completely disassembled the drivetrain. My pinvise holding a needle is pointing at the offending mirror bellcrank pivot.

 

So now I have a hell of an assembly job ahead of me with nothing helpful to go on other than photos I took along the way. Wish me luck. Worst case another body is cheap and I now know as much as I need to to service one. In the meantime though, it will be interesting to go through the reassembly process I'm sure and now there is something in the archives to help the next guy. One thing though, if you have a service manual on a 500C, I would appreciate a look at it so I can get mine back together sooner.

Clearly, you've had some solid experience poking around Rube Goldberg inspired vintage European camera internals. Wasn't sure of that when I replied, and didn't realize you'd already gone pretty deep into disassembly. Hence my suggestion to send it to a pro tech or swap it for a newer model (generally the best option when confronted with a balky ancient 500c). The Hass lenses are a bit more DIY repairable for adventurous types than the bodies, which tend to be more tricky to fix than they first appear (the 500c more so than the later 500cm, 501, 503, etc).

 

Yes, I do have a service manual for the 500 series: I'll try to send you the PDF file via PM (can't remember the link I got it from years ago). Since you're got it stripped down now, you might be better able to glean some hints how to proceed than someone starting from scratch. Like most camera service manuals, its a bit inscrutable: good luck, and let us know how things go!

Thank you for your initial reply and your offer to provide the manual. Everything you wrote was accurate and sound advice. In my case I have a mental deficiency that encourages me to jump into intimidating situations. Don't mistake my impulse to disassemble something as evidence I can get it back together. We'll see :) Seriously, my first job was with IBM fixing their Selectric typewriters. These devices launch over 100 parts in sequence when a single keybutton is pushed. At the time I didn't realize it but that experience would serve me well with my hobbies later in life.

It is certainly a worthy goal to learn how to repair these classic workhorses, given the rapidly dwindling supply of available or affordably-priced technicians these days. Too bad Hasselblads, Rolleis and Leicas are so over-complicated and inconsistent from one serial number range to the next: even if you've had success at DIY-fixing one example, you never know what new excruciating gremlin will confront you once you get another one opened.

 

I've managed to DIY-fix a couple defective 500cm bodies and C/CF lenses, but it was nerve wracking work for sure that I don't look forward to repeating. Other than replacing the light traps in my film backs, I'm done poking around inside Hassy gear. The next time something breaks, it gets sold for scrap unless I feel my use of it can truly justify an eye-watering repair tab.

Edited September 18, 2018 by orsetto

I guess Hasselblad's marketing and advertising expenditures continue to pay dividends long after the product has become obsolete. Truth be told, my purchase was made not because I have experienced anything compelling as a result of using one, but because the Hasselblad just seemed to be such a Holy Grail camera. When I was shooting 35mm the difference between a Canon and a Nikon or a Nikon and a Konica was obvious. The Nikon simply took better photographs. But with the Hasselblad, I'm not sure the difference will be so obvious between it and my Bronicas. But first things first, I've got to get it back together and probably service the lenses that came with it. Thanks again for your moral and material support.

Cleaned up the "mechanism plate" and related parts and am trial fitting them. Just managed to install the coil spring into the film drive gear and I'm calling it a night.

The trouble with "dipping your toe into Hasselblad" is it generally results in the system devouring your entire leg (and an arm). There's something very seductive about the 500 system, not least the mystique that built up around it if you were young enough to be "exposed" to it. I started twelve years ago with an impulse purchase of a tattered ex-Navy 500c kit with 50-80-150 silver lenses for a "bargain" price of $999. It proved not much of a bargain after all, as every single piece of the kit was in sad shape and had to be resold. But it whet my appetite for more, until at one crazy point I actually owned all this:

Sanity eventually prevailed: now I'm down to about a third of these, and need to get rid of a couple more. Luckily I got most of them at below market pricing, but it was still way too much money concentrated in one system (and when the shutters began to go, don't ask about the repair costs).

 

The Zeiss lenses really do live up to their reputation: that part of the legend is largely true. There is something about the rendering that you can't quite match with Mamiya or Bronica optics, as good as they are in their own right. Of course thats subjective, with much depending on the type of work you do and whether it exploits such subtleties. As elegant as the Hasselblad system can be, its also clunky, balky, eccentric, and prone to mind-numbing regular maintenance costs. The Zeiss lenses float the whole shebang, but only if a photographer feels the results justify the dramatic cost premium over other perfectly good, more reliable systems like Mamiya RB67, Pentax 645 or Bronica SQ. I've tried them all, loved them all, but finally pared down to Hasselblad 500cm for SLR and Mamiya 330S for TLR.

 

Fortunately, prices are low enough (and stable enough) now on the more common Hasselblad bodies and lenses that most anyone can afford to try the system for a year, and if they don't get on with it resell at little to no loss. The item most prone to wild price spikes is the A12 film back: those who want to limit their initial outlay should consider the MUCH cheaper A24 back instead. The workaround loading procedure for 120 film in the A24 back is just slightly different than the "proper" A12, and of course you need to remember the A24 film counter will keep going past 12 exposures if you forget to reload. While a bit of an unofficial kluge, the 120-in A24 trick is very affordable: the A24 back typically sells for 1/4 or 1/5 the price of an A12.

Edited September 19, 2018 by orsetto

Whoa! That looks more like Hasselblad's booth at a Photo Show than one man's arsenal.

Well the 500C is back together and working fine!

 

All told I probably have eight hours into the body between cleaning, figuring out what goes where and in what order, lubing, redoing a few tasks, etc. The biggest mystery to me was the pre-tensioning of the shutter drive mechanism. The most significant physical feat was winding and inserting the advance/aux shutter "clock spring". No doubt the boys with factory training have a simple tool to make quick work of both of these tasks.

 

I have to admit a couple of things:

1. The 503CW manual Orsetto provided WAS of great help. Initially, the difference between the 503CW and 500C mechanisms seemed too significant but after reviewing it a couple of times,I realized it answered the key questions I had. Thanks Orsetto!

2. The 500C is a wonderful mechanical device (and I'm sure many of the later models are even better). Additionally with my minimal experience repairing my own cameras (Contarex, Contax, Zeiss Ikon ) none of these are as well made and although I have never had my Bronicas apart, I doubt they can compare from a build quality perspective. The tolerances used in the Hasselblad are tight; everything fits together very well with no "coaxing". The materials used are top notch. The plating and coatings on the components are robust - even after 56 years (my body was built in '62) they are in remarkably good condition. Overall, the amount of simplicity built in is remarkable as well. I have not seen this in German cameras, so hat's off to Victor Hasselblad and his team.

 

Hopefully I will shoot a roll of film this weekend and see if all the components are working as they should. Here is a shot of the fully assembled 500C mechanism. A big THANKS again to Orsetto for providing his comments and help. I couldn't have done it without them.

Shot a roll of T-max 400 with the 500c and 80mm Planar last weekend. A couple of shots have a small indication of light leakage so I will see if that continues to be a problem. Overall I'm pleased with the results of the first roll.