Posting for Critique

Myriads of grumpy old men remain in place everywhere. Concepts of the past abound and are sometimes overrated by those stuck in that past. Millennials are doing some amazing things. If only the grumpy old men weren’t distracted by pop icons such as Paris Hilton, who’s way too easy a mark.

 

Nobody deserves the appellation of “snowflake” period.

Until the food supply gets tight and the power grid fails.

The workforce that was those “grumpy old men” is gone.

The basics aren’t entertaining or glamorous anymore.

Snowflakes abound.......until the heat is on.

Not having the courage to face Truth does not change it.

There are some amazingly talented and hardworking youngsters.

It is the average that is in decline.

And that is what governs the rise or decline of society.

There are some amazingly talented and hardworking youngsters.

It is the average that is in decline.

And that is what governs the rise or decline of society.

Exactly.

Someone said that since Michael Jackson it is not longer a question of form replacing substance. Now form IS substance. In the mind of the entitled snowflakes. Just to hurl back an empty cliché, Gary, of myriads of grumpy old men, will not suffice. There could be a good reason why some old men are grumpy. They remember the old days where things mattered and you got punished for bad judgement, wrong analysis, mistakes founded on lazy preparation and general inadequacy. By now it is much more often possible to be irresponsible without consequences. Be a sociopath with a winning smile and cynically elbow your way through society not only not caring about real empathy and real truth but in secret regarding them as your enemies while you claim the opposite, or simply because you are unable to tell right from wrong anymore - now that is a rewarding strategy today.

But you still cannot build a bridge, an airplane or a vaccine that function well by just using "smart communication", attitude, empty posturing and an unhealthy big dose of unwarranted assertiveness. It is only because of today's amazing technology and overwhelmingly rich societies in general that this phenomenon is possible. The phenomenenon of the spoiled, the pampered and the immature. Only these days you can get away with a staggering high percentage of the population that in reality are dysfunctional and unable to cope properly. In stead they cheekily and with a stupid grin yell out that something that in reality is total garbage - actually do fly. Who cares anymore? Who can actually anymore assess soberly what is reasonable and true and important - or what is just: loud garbage. It is very often the grumpy old men that are best at just that.

A funny example of one of my points:

and another one:

An excellent articulation of what grumpy old men know instinctively.....

This grumpy old man with a considerable measure of sadness for what is being lost.

All at a time when Mankind never had it so good, we are standing at a lush green precipice.

I’m from ’78 ( Gen X, the last real slacker generation!) and don’t see myself as a “ grumpy old geezer” just yet, lol.

grumpy old man in training

Nobody deserves the appellation of "snowflake" less than JDM.

Thanks, I guesso_O

Someone said that since Michael Jackson it is not longer a question of form replacing substance. Now form IS substance.

A couple of things in response to this...

1. Abstract art and much Expressionism is a kind of form IS substance. It's not the be-all and end-all, but it's something worth considering and dealing with. No, I'm not likening or comparing Michael Jackson to Mondrian, Rothko, Kandinsky or Klee. Just responding positively to the form IS substance idea.
   
2. I'd say Michael Jackson wasn't a matter of form IS substance. In part, he may have been style IS substance, but add to that a bunch of talent. Sorry, but he knew what he was doing and did a great job doing it. He certainly impressed and moved me with his voice, his rhythm and his moves.
   
3. I'm happy to take back "grumpy old man" which was just my response in kind to the "snowflake" comments that had already been made. But there's a repetitive generational thing that happens among some members of each generation. A condescension toward older folks among younger folks and a condescension toward younger folks among older folks. I think it's silly, both ways. Sometimes, it's endearing. Like my grandma, who used to tease my mom and aunt about them having been bobby soxers who would swoon at Frank Sinatra, someone who also had style with a capital "S" and much more. Grandma, of course, took much more seriously the great singers of her era. My mom and dad used to tease my brother and me about The Beatles (yeah, yeah, yeah) and The Stones, preferring their Big Bands and crooners to music they simply didn't understand or like. I listen to it all, from Rudy Vallee to Eddie Cantor to Ella and Frank, Mick and Lennon, and whatever rap strikes my ear. And Beethoven, don'f forget Beethoven!
   

Until the food supply gets tight and the power grid fails.

The workforce that was those “grumpy old men” is gone.

The basics aren’t entertaining or glamorous anymore.

If the power grid fails, I imagine we'll be happy there are folks who know how to work in the fields, cutting tree limbs that fell on wires, rewiring stretches that need fixing, hoisting electronic poles and more. We'll also be happy for those in their 20s and 30s less experienced with working with their hands and more experienced with working with 0s and 1s to get that grid back on line. My hope would be that instead of pitting generation against generation and claiming that the average of the younger generation is causing or involved in some sort of societal decline, the generations would work together and would be open to and respectful of each other, even when thinking of them as an average.

If the power grid fails, I imagine we'll be happy there are folks who know how to work in the fields, cutting tree limbs that fell on wires, rewiring stretches that need fixing, hoisting electronic poles and more. We'll also be happy for those in their 20s and 30s less experienced with working with their hands and more experienced with working with 0s and 1s to get that grid back on line. My hope would be that instead of pitting generation against generation and claiming that the average of the younger generation is causing or involved in some sort of societal decline, the generations would work together and would be open to and respectful of each other, even when thinking of them as an average.

So many holes, so little thread......

“Electronic poles” ?

“0’s and 1’s to get that grid back on line” ??

“My hope would be that instead of pitting generation against generation and claiming that the average of the younger generation is causing or involved in some sort of societal decline, the generations would work together and would be open to and respectful of each other,”

You mean like this, if I may quote you directly.....

Myriads of grumpy old men remain in place everywhere. Concepts of the past abound and are sometimes overrated by those stuck in that past. Millennials are doing some amazing things. If only the grumpy old men weren’t distracted by pop icons such as Paris Hilton, who’s way too easy a mark.

You mean like this, if I may quote you directly.....

Myriads of grumpy old men remain in place everywhere. Concepts of the past abound and are sometimes overrated by those stuck in that past. Millennials are doing some amazing things. If only the grumpy old men weren’t distracted by pop icons such as Paris Hilton, who’s way too easy a mark.

I mean exactly like that. I hoped that my comment would be taken as an ironic and extreme reaction to what had been said about snowflake millennials. What I said was as offensive as what had been said already, to fight fire with fire. Maybe not the most effective way to argue, but my follow up comments about my actual hopes for generational cooperation and respect should make clear the context for the more fiery original language and the ultimate point of my thinking.

Snowflakes should avoid fire.....

;)

You’re a waste of time. Ignore time.

“Ignore time”

That pretty much makes the point.

Snowflakes should avoid fire.....

;)

You’re a waste of time. Ignore time.

"Myriads of grumpy old men remain in place everywhere. Concepts of the past abound and are sometimes overrated by those stuck in that past. Millennials are doing some amazing things. "

This discussion reminds me of my father lecturing us kids in the 1950's that the present generation (of baby boomers) would not amount to much because they did not live through the great depression like their parents did. I regarded these lectures as the rantings of an old grouch (my god, he was over 50!), and ignored them. Years later in the 1960's, after graduating with a university degree in engineering, and looking for my first engineering position, I encountered a few grumpy older interviewers with a similar outlook, that I could not possibly be a good worker because I did not suffer through the depression like they did. Fortunately, I found younger and more optimistic managers who were willing to hire me.

Because of these and similar experiences in my younger life, I resolved to not grow up to be a grumpy old man. I have mostly succeeded, despite there being profound societal and environmental ills that we have left to the next generations to address. Being a grumpy old man (or woman) is no way to motivate younger people, they will just ignore you, as they should.

Guys - let's keep it "nice". "A smart man believes only half of what he hears - a wise man knows which half." Jeff Cooper

Dear Sandy,

Oh, I get it, I get it. If one talks about “snowflakes” and presents some analysis together with some innocent and humorous examples of the unfortunate phenomenon, one is political incorrect and not “nice” and should rightfully be reprimanded, castigated and immediately stopped. If somebody tries to stigmatize others by just calling them grumpy old men unrightfully clinging to power hindering "progress", it is quite all right and well deserved...?

I know you want to do a great and conscientious job as a moderator, fair enough. But let’s leave George Orwell and the “Thought Police” from the novel “1984” behind? I’m sure no one gets irreversibly traumatized from such a minor discussion, that even might seem refreshing for some in its (self-)uncensored honesty? I am sure you know which half is, after all, the wisest to believe ;-)

Dear Phil,

Look up Jeff Cooper, more correctly, Colonel John Dean "Jeff" Cooper U.S.M.C Ret.(now deceased) you might even be able to ascertain which side of the political divide I fall on. As a moderator it is necessary for me to be as evenhanded as I am able. That is remarkably difficult since I have strong opinions. Key task, to keep a civil discourse and a welcoming environment for present and potential new members, and that is what I shall try to accomplish. My experience is that there is a tipping point before which it is possible to defuse a situation, after which harsher measures come into play. As to Orwell, I had the good fortune to get an education before it became indoctrination, unless fairly obscure, I'm familiar with important literature. No one can get "injured" on the internet - possibly it would be better if they could, they would be a bit more calculated and civil in their speech..

I'm wondering why the irrational hatred for President Trump expressed from time to time on photo.net goes unchallenged... just sayin'.

Free speech, you have it as well. Some can / should be moderated, most cannot. Typically, I pass that kind of issue on to other Moderators, since, as mentioned, I have strong opinions. :D

I think generally this place is well moderated.

And I appreciate the patience when things get testy now and again.

Gotta know when to walk away.

On the other hand, a bit sad a bit bland a little color-lacking? ;-)

I took the role of moderator, I will do my best to do it honorably and properly. Prior to that, I was rather vocal in support of what I believe.

Actually, I would favor dueling to resolve serious personal issues - apparently there is a movement to bring that back in some parts of the world. Of course, in this digital universe, that would require actually confronting opponents. ;)

Dueling....

The guys that can shoot always prefer that...;)

I took the role of moderator, I will do my best to do it honorably and properly. Prior to that, I was rather vocal in support of what I believe.

Actually, I would favor dueling to resolve serious personal issues - apparently there is a movement to bring that back in some parts of the world. Of course, in this digital universe, that would require actually confronting opponents. ;)

Wow, nothing bland or color-lacking in that statement. Well beyond what I could have come up with myself, actually. Now I smell gunpowder and leather saddles and sense the rich, warm breath of humour among real manly men by the fireplace aided by a good old bottle of Jack. I shall fumble for my bulletproof vest, just in case...;)