Trusty cheap light meter?

I went on a cheap meter binge lately, myself. It turns out that the LightMeter app for my Android phone is as accurate as any, and reads lower light than some. My particular Gossen Super Pilot CdS is working with modern batteries, so far; whether it will track correctly as the batteries drop in voltage is yet undetermined. The Super Pilot SBC was the one I should have bought in the first place, and works perfectly. I have bought several old Westons over the years as have yet to get one that worked, so I'm not big on that brand. The last one was a nice meter, but getting it fixed is another $80 or so, and that's not going to happen. I have a Polaris flash meter that is light and has survived a decade without fuss; they're under $100 used. A tiny Gossen Pilot works fine but not for low light; I keep it with my 5x7, which usually gets used outside. The LunaPro F was a smart buy as a cheaper flash/ambient meter, taking 9V batteries, but it's relatively large.

 

To tell the truth, though, I usually stick my finger up in the air and that's within a half stop. Nearly 60 years of experience does that. I never found those charts very accurate; their full sun recommendation doesn't worry about the shadows at all, for a start. Like most one-size-fits-all ideas, it doesn't actually work if you care at all about exposure.

ld Gossen meters are rugged and long lasting. I got one that had obviously been scorched by something and partially melted and it has still worked for decades now.

 

This one is similar.

Gossen Luna-Pro Digital Light Meter

 

Weston Master meters are also more of a possibility than you might think. Yes they are selenium and the cell has a lifespan that is probably well past the sell by date, BUT many were kept in cases and the meters still work accurately. No batteries and they are often very pleasant to use.

 

Leica has a lot of clip on meters from the OLD OLD days which are often surprisingly serviceable and not really collector's items.

Leica Meter 2

 

For NEW and much more expensive options, you can get the Voitlander VC meters Voigtlander VC Speed Meter II (Black) 45AD104B B&H Photo Video

 

One last option are the old spot meters that Adorama and similar stores used to sell. They're surprisingly rugged and cheap, especially used. They used 9V batteries. Some came with holsters. There were more expensive ones too made by Minolta and others.

 

 

 

 

Carbon. Why are you resurrecting all these old threads?

Carbon. Why are you resurrecting all these old threads?

 

I'm assuming it might be by accident (it happened for a lot of people after the forum reconfiguration). I've messaged privately to check whether it's deliberate.

 

Not that the extra information isn't interesting and potentially useful to someone searching for answers, but it's highly unlikely to help the original poster.

Something like the Minolta Auto Meter III or IV either the F or non F version are good meters. Most of them would be very accurate.They are great for incident metering. About the only drawback is that in reflective mode they measure a relatively wide angle and is more difficult to aim. A typical built in meter of a modern camera is better in this respect.

I wrote: "For the most part, I find selenium cell meters either work or don't, as the contacts to the cell are fragile."

 

"For the most part, I find selenium cell meters either work or don't, as the contacts to the cell are fragile."

 

- Not my experience. The majority of selenium meters I've come across are inaccurate through low sensitivity of the cell. The cells, especially in Weston 4, 5 and Euro models, also become non-linear; making the low and high scales no longer match.

 

A quick check that the needle deflects when pointed at a light-source isn't a sufficient test.

 

There are plenty of more modern meters that don't use a delicate moving-coil needle or doddery old selenium cell. Shepherd, Quantum, Minolta, etc. It's worth paying a bit more for a reliable meter IMO.

 

OK, yes, I have seen that.

 

But I have not seen them one or two stops off. The needle might move a tiny bit, but then again it will do that if you shake the camera enough.

 

As well as I understand it, it is amorphous (non-crystalline) selenium on an iron sheet, with a thin (transparent thin) gold layer on the front.

Then somehow wires connect onto those, and not as reliably as you hope.

 

I have a Canon VI, which was designed for a shutter-speed coupled meter, and the original one died many years ago.

(The camera I have took my baby pictures when it was new.)

 

The meter I have works about half the time, and often enough a light tap on the side will get it working again.

 

There is a switch that selects either the whole cell, or just a small part of it, with two scales of f/stops to read

off and set as appropriate. Sometimes when set for the more sensitive scale, only the less sensitive one

works.

Carbon. Why are you resurrecting all these old threads?

 

It's a little of both. Sometimes I don't see the date, there are not that many posts on this forum so they may not be too far down from the top. Sometimes I just think they are questions worth answering, especially if they seem like common questions. I can't tell you how much I've seen questions about light meters because even though we are in the age of digital now, there are a lot of people still using film cameras too and are often looking for ways to use them. Or maybe they just don't have the money (though these days film probably has it's own surcharge in terms of finding equipment and chemicals).

 

Heck I used to go down to the photo store for chemicals and reels etc. Now there ARE no camera stores anywhere near me. So you can't go down there and see what things look like in the way we used to. In this case, I thought posting pictures of some cheap light meter options might be worthwhile for anyone interested in the options. These are the options I used. I still use some of them even today (the spot meter for instance). Being able to look at a scene and see the different light levels is useful even with a digital camera, even when digitals have much better dynamic range.

If anyone's getting good exposures with an aperture of f/22 in full sunlight @ ISO 125 & 1/125th of a second, they're either living on a different planet or have a faulty and very slow shutter!

 

Why not suggest they just stick a wet finger in the air and think of an aperture number?

 

What a pity no one was around to tell Kodak and the other film makers how wrong they were. I glad that's been set straight now.

What a pity no one was around to tell Kodak and the other film makers how wrong they were. I glad that's been set straight now.

 

- So am I.

We no longer stick a strip of POP paper in a metal holder and wait for it to turn light brown either. Nor do we peer through a bit of fogged film to see which number is just visible.

 

The words "Cheap and reliable light meter" are a bit of an oxymoron. Usually a light meter is cheap for a reason, and one of those reasons may well be its poor accuracy or reliability.

 

I can only go by my own experience, which is that any meter using a mechanical moving-needle indicator will eventually fail, especially if driven by a selenium cell.

 

I have Sekonic and Gossen moving-coil CdS meters that have failed due to the meter going open-circuit. Plus I've seen dozens of inaccurate selenium meters from many manufacturers. As a result; I can only conclude that older meters aren't generally a good deal, at any price, and that it's worth spending more to get a more modern design.

Yes but ONE of the reasons a light meter is cheap is age, and another is [lack of] rarity. There are a LOT of Westons and Gossens out there and with digital cameras (and any kind of semi modern film camera) all having excellent meters, the need for them is not high. There are people today who need buggy whips, but not many so I don't imagine they're expensive on the used market if you see what I mean.

 

I spent my formative years using a Konica I because my dad gave it to me and it was my only camera. I started with the only meter I could find, an old GE meter (man that was a terrible meter). I spent a fair amount of time messing around with old cameras that had no light meters so I carried one a lot. But aside from the Voigtlander VC meter which I use on old Leica Ms, or the spotmeter, I tend not to actually carry them these days. You can get some great old light meters these days for very little because they aren't really collectable (except for the occasional one like the Weston with zone markings).

 

That said, yeah, get a modern design if you can. I kind of think though that the Gossens are a sweet spot. They ARE a modern design, they're loads of them out there, and they really aren't that expensive.

 

Bear in mind though that there is a technique for using a light meter well. You have to pay careful attention to where you're pointing it, whether it's better to do an incident reading, and so on. I don't pretend to know the rules well, but you have to pay attention to the meter's idiosyncrasies. And usually you don't have the manual when you buy used, so go online and try to find one that's close and do some experimentation. I used to get some funny looks carrying the Gossen around my neck or the spotmeter in the holster. It's kind of like stepping into history.

 

And I have the IOS app for the light meter and it seems like it might work if you have an iPhone and it might be a place to start if you're really on a budget.

As I have suggested the early Minolta digital meters are quite cheap ($50) unless if you don't think $50 is cheap. I found most of them in used condition are still very reliable and accurate. I believe they are better than 1/3 stop accuracy. I don't think they can fail that easy so I think they are reliable.

I would not use a meter with selenium cell. I would not use a meter that requires mercury battery. If I have them then they are more for collecting than functional.

As selenium meters go, Westons are maybe the most common and the way they were sold tends to help them survive longer. First, there’s that plastic baffle that is usually closed (for higher light levels) which blocks some light going to the cells. Then they mostly came in a leather case that blocked the entire cell. I do like using the CDS cell meters better, but if you’re conscious of what you’re aiming at, selenium meters can work fine.

 

It’s interesting to take all my meters and go outside and compare them all. You often learn something about how each meter works. The in camera ones are a lot more sophisiticated than just the generic metering most handheld meters do. On the other hand, the spot meters tell you a lot about the image that you can’t get any other way (except maybe through histograms on modern digitals and the the sparkling associated with some cameras attempting to show you what is outside the dynamic range of the camera either full black or full white). My gossen has a spot meter attachment which doesn’t quite narrow the focus to what a real spotmeter can do, but it narrows the focus quite a bit.

 

In the old days, with forgiving black and white films (or even color negative) you didn’t need to be THAT perfect, but with color slides, it got more problematic.

 

So if you’re using an older camera without a built in meter to shoot slide film, that’s probably when you’ll get in trouble hand metering. I used to bracket more with slide films.A good spot meter might be the way to go with slides. But there’s no reason why you can’t use selenium meters for black and white print film. I did it for years and yes the meters are older now but just test out the meter to make sure it’s moderately accurate (and not dead or misreading) and learn its idiosyncrasies. I have bought (and sold) two cameras with built-in selenium meters, the Contarex Bullseye and the Canon 7 rangefinder. The Canon was accurate, the Bullseye was reliably off by a stop.

 

If money was no object for an OLD camera with no meter but which has a hot or cold shoe, the Voigtlander VC meter (type 1 or 2) is a great meter. Trouble free, attractive, and accurate (CDS I believe). But it’s about $200. But if you’re a starving student, or anyone else on a budget, you can probably find cheap hand meters of all kinds. If the seller doesn’t bother to check it, CDS meters might be a better idea. If they DO check it, there is no reason to not try the selenium meter, if it’s cheaper.

 

I agree that the Minolta meters were great meters. I have one calibrated for Infrared (sadly the film it was calibrated for is now gone). But it still works.

 

I guess I just think these old meters are cool and fun.

I guess I just think these old meters are cool and fun.

 

I agree that those old meters are cool and fun but like the weston II that I have I would much rather guess at my exposure than using it. But sure I like it as it's cool and fun.

Mine is a Weston Master III. The IIs were a little more primitive. The V's and later ones were even nicer looking but I've never seen those in the wild.

If the seller doesn’t bother to check it, CDS meters might be a better idea

 

That might be the common belief but from my experience, used CDS meters can be out as much as any selenium cell meter. Unless a seller can assure the buyer that the CDS meter reads within a half fstop, be prepared to work on the meter to make it accurate

 

If a Sekonic L98 is out, there's no way of adjusting it to make it right unless a resister or two is replaced. But the large and bulky Gossen Sixtar has three easy to get at rheostats in side to adjust and they will more than likely need adjusting. (nice meter but has a very slow moving needle)

 

With a selenium cell Zeiss Ikophot, if it's out by one fstop, it's possible to adjust it to make it a very accurate light meter for between 10am to 3pm without even pulling it apart, just sacrifice the "Zero-ing" of the needle and use the same adjusting screw to adjust the needle to suit between the hours mentioned, checking it against a meter of known accuracy. An Ikophot has a total adjustment movement of one f stop, by turning the Zero-ing screw

 

A CDS meter can be more difficult to repair or adjust than a selenium cell meter. If the CDS only has a bad battery wire, that can be easily fixed, if not, you might be in real trouble. A selenium cell meter most of the time has a bad connection to the cell or a worn out cell, which can be replaced using a good cell from another meter or a solar cell from a small solar calculator. Interestingly, one of those black Polaroid meters, which I have, has no soldered joints on it's selenium cell, the wires are just pressed against it. It wasn't working when I got it, but as soon as I laid a finger on one of the wires, it came to life and has been working ever since

 

My post is dragging on a bit but selenium cell meters are simple and easily repaired, if they're not accurate, keep them in storage rather than binning them. Repaired, they're still quite useful

I have heard about people replacing selenium cells onboard cameras but I thought it was a pretty specialized operation.

 

To some extent, things are as easy as the repair technicians you have access to! If you have someone nearby who is capable of a particular operation (like a teardown of a Leica IIIf) then it seems easier than an operation your local person can't do.

I suspect the late responder was looking for a place to plug his real estate photography blog.

Re: Replacing Selenium cells with a solar calculator cell or similar. Sure, you can do that if you only want a completely inaccurate meter that simply moves a needle when exposed to light!

 

Selenium was chosen for photometer cells because it has a reasonably flat spectral response. Whereas all modern solar cells use Silicon, and have a heavily red/infrared weighted response that's totally unsuitable for photometry. They also tend to have a greater efficiency and hence output per area than Selenium, making a direct replacement almost impossible unless accuracy is sacrificed.

 

I had the same idea of using the cell(s) from a cheap solar garden light to replace a Weston Selenium cell. It kind of worked, but by the time I'd blue-filtered the Silicon cell enough to tame its red sensitivity, it had less output than needed. Beside which, dismantling a Weston meter without causing damage to the case or upsetting the moving coil meter movement requires the skills of a watchmaker. Plus a glass-based solar cell is thicker than any selenium cell, and has soldered wire contacts rather than surface-plated ones; making physical fitment quite difficult. Definitely not recommended.

 

Save yourself the time and grief and buy a reasonably modern and accurate meter in the first place.

Yup those old selenium meters are nice to play with but not really good for measuring light.

gossen luna pro or the sbc model are very reliable n cheap. old seleniums are going blind n a new cell for them are almost extinct these days.

Yup those old selenium meters are nice to play with but not really good for measuring light.

 

This is kind of an overstatement. They work, or rather some do and some don't depending on the meter's history. I've had about 5 of 6 as accurate enough to do black and white film. (2 Westons, 2 Leicas, Canon 7 and the Bullseye). CDs meters are usually accurate OR don't work at all (my Leica CL meter for instance). Selenium meters are either accurate or they're off by some number of fixed stops (at least that was the case with my Bullseye meter). They're perfectly useable generally even when they have lost sensitivity (by changing the ISO by a fixed amount).

 

I'd rather use my Gossen CDs or a spotmeter or a better in camera meter, but selenium meters actually work pretty well. I mean we used them for years. It's kind of a pain to have to unmask the meter (a Weston in its case) to use it, but on the other hand the case's protection of the cell is probably why a lot of Westons still work. I've been told (not certain it's true) that selenium meters which have been continually exposed to light get inaccurate over time. If this is true it might be why the Bullseye, which was probably sitting on a shelf for a few decades, lost sensitivity while my westons in their case in a dark drawer did not.

 

If you are using some old camera without a meter or with a broken meter, and you have a decent selenium meter, by all means test it against other cameras or meters to see how the sensitivity and meter readings are.

I don't want something accurate enough. There are many ways for me to get accurate enough not having a meter. Those old selenium meters aren't cheap.

So I do have a couple of them but I would never use them.

Edited September 22, 2018 by BeBu Lamar

Ha, well you're better than me for estimating then. All that sunny 16 stuff and rules of thumb never did me much good. I needed a meter. Really the biggest problem with selenium meters like the Westons is they have a really wide view. You have to get really close to the subject to know what you're measuring. Other than that, they'll get you within a stop. If you really want to be accurate use a spotmeter to measure every bit of the scene to see what will be beyond the film latitude. Canon and Nikon's sophisticated metering systems were pretty good in the film days at this as well. I have a spot attachment for the Gossen, but it's wider than a regular spotmeter.

 

When I was using slides with selenium meters I tended to bracket, though I did the same with the Gossen Luna Pro. Being off by a half a stop with Tri-X is really not an issue for me. What I really use these days with something like the Leica M2 is the Voigtlander VC. It's convenient and accurate but it's view is also pretty wide. I have a selenium meter made specifically for the Ms that that is the same vintage as my camera and it works, it's just tricky to put on and not quite as fast to use.

 

What I really like these days is taking the shot with a digital and having the image pop up so I can look at it. Think how handy a little digital would have been in the old days to check exposure.

Yup those old selenium meters are nice to play with but not really good for measuring light.

 

Not if you use an incident meter, like the Sekonic Studio Delux or a meter with an incident dome.

That would also take CD's concern of a wide angle of view away.

I used an incident meter (Metrastar with incident dome) for most of my slide shooting.

The gossens came with a dome that was slid to the side that you could slide in place to do incident metering. Many meters have that capability. My weston does not have a dome (though they might have sold one at one time). Instead if has a baffle that folds over the cell to cut down on the incoming light for indoor use! Really the meter inside my Leica M9 is pretty basic as electronics go.