Panasonic's new FF35 camera - thoughts

So Panasonic is going to release a camera with a FF35 (36x24mm) sensor, and it's just possible that it will share the Leica L mount.

 

(FT5) Panasonic will announce its first Full Frame system camera on September 25! - 43 Rumors

 

IMHO, this would be a very good idea. Firstly, we don't need yet another lens mount in the world. Secondly, this would mean that Panasonic will make lenses for the L mount, which will introduce more affordable lenses into the L system. Good for SL, CL and TL users who might want more flexibility in lens choice. Good for Panasonic users who prefer the Panasonic bodies and features and who might want a Leica lens on their camera.

 

There is mention of the possible aspect ratio of 4:3, which will be interesting.

Let's wait and see?

Others using Leica mounts were always nice to have. OTOH: What is Leica's own interest in that case? - They rebadged Panasonic stuff in the past for their consumer market and were happy to sell lensmaking know how to Asia. But are they interested in opening up their premium system once again? Will they benefit from a 3rd party making cameras that sing behind M-lenses?

 

Anyhow: More competition can't harm and might urge big players to go beyond "Let's build something like a Sony too".

Latest rumor says no Leica mount. I'd love to see an alternative to the traditional 3:2 aspect ratio, ideally a multi-aspect ratio sensor that takes full advantage of current FF lenses. It would be in Panny's interest, as well. They're entering a lion's den and need to differentiate themselves from Sony/Nikon/Canon.

Multi-aspect ratio simply means square. :-) But your idea is actually a good one. Users can select custom aspect ratios from the square sensor. They can select whatever they want for the RAW file. That would be magnificent. Having said that, MFD lets you do that post-exposure, although at a huge cost.

For goodness sake Karim. Let the awful square die and RIP, together with TLRs and medium format waist-level SLRs.

 

If you like it that much you can simply waste 1/3rd of a 24x36 frame, instead of asking the rest of us to waste our money buying a hugely expensive 36x36mm sensor.

The square isn't a mere hangover. It allows the photo editor to crop the photo for either a landscape or a portrait aspect (assuming the photographer composed the photo that way).

 

Yes, it is very handy for film photography, especially the darkroom (you can fit 12 exposures on one 8x10 sheet). But it's also useful for photography in general. It means that you don't have to rotate the camera to get a portrait aspect.

The square isn't a mere hangover. It allows the photo editor to crop the photo for either a landscape or a portrait aspect (assuming the photographer composed the photo that way).

Cropping a square image throws 1/3rd of the image in the trash. Turning a 3:2 camera on its side costs nothing, and gives you 50% more pixels to start with. Square is appropriate for Rollei and Hasselblad. For every other application, it is for squares.

It is for squares....LOL. If you want to crop square just do it if its needed and you don't happen to have your Hassy with you.

"The square isn't a mere hangover."

 

- It most definitely is!

There were no cameras taking a square format until some bright herbert in the 1920s decided that a WLF and no rotating back was a good idea. They were wrong then, and they're still wrong now!

Multi-aspect ratio simply means square. :) But your idea is actually a good one. Users can select custom aspect ratios from the square sensor. They can select whatever they want for the RAW file. That would be magnificent. Having said that, MFD lets you do that post-exposure, although at a huge cost.

 

No, multi-aspect ration does not mean square. It's been done a few times, like in the Panny GH2, using a slightly oversized rectangular sensor. A square sensor? Well, not for me. I'd prefer the "GH2 version" of a multi-aspect snsor.

So the latest rumour is that it's going to have 8K video. Ay caramba if true.

Yes, and the latest rumors also say no on-sensor IBIS? Well, that would be a step backwards for still shooters, but make sense if this is another video-centric camera.

Multi-aspect ratio simply means square. :) But your idea is actually a good one. Users can select custom aspect ratios from the square sensor. They can select whatever they want for the RAW file. That would be magnificent. Having said that, MFD lets you do that post-exposure, although at a huge cost.

It's not possible to make a true multi aspect sensor because you always crop it However, if you're going to crop for multi aspect then the sensor should be round in that way whatever the aspect ratio you still use the the maximum image circle. Besides you can rotate the crop in any way. You can shoot vertical and horizontal without turning your camera..

I would assume, with some reason, that it's cheaper to make a square sensor than a round one, assuming that the diameter of the circlular sensor matched the width of the square sensor. You will waste some photosites (in the corners) but I don't see that as a big problem. If I'm wrong, at least I learned something.

 

Edit: Latest rumours indicate 4K and 42Mpx+.

Karim,

 

Have you seen how Panasonic has implemented multi-aspect sensors in past and current products? It's not simply a sensor crop, it's a larger than normal sensor that allows different area captures at full resolution.

Karim,

 

Have you seen how Panasonic has implemented multi-aspect sensors in past and current products? It's not simply a sensor crop, it's a larger than normal sensor that allows different area captures at full resolution.

They use the 4/3 sensor and you can pick any of the available aspect ratio and yet never can use the entire sensor. What a waste. Just capture the entire image on the sensor then change it in post.

There is no such thing as a "multi-aspect ratio sensor". There are square sensors and rectangular sensors. Either can be cropped to look like the other.

 

This is an argument over less than nothing.

It's official. Panasonic's FF35 camera will use the L mount. This makes total sense for very obvious reasons.

 

(FT5) A new force is building up: Leica, Panasonic and Sigma are on board together on the Full Frame SL mount project! - 43 Rumors

There is no such thing as a "multi-aspect ratio sensor". There are square sensors and rectangular sensors. Either can be cropped to look like the other.

 

This is an argument over less than nothing.

 

Uh....no. Go to this link, and scroll down to see a graphical explanation of how it works. The GH5s uses a slightly oversized sensor to accommodate all three aspect ratios. It's not as simplistic as merely cropping via software. Panny also uses this in their new LX series camera.

 

Panasonic Lumix GH5S review so far - Cameralabs

They use the 4/3 sensor and you can pick any of the available aspect ratio and yet never can use the entire sensor. What a waste. Just capture the entire image on the sensor then change it in post.

 

No, that's not true. The sensor is not a typical 4/3 sensor. With a true multi-aspect sensor you can get full resolution images at three different aspect ratios. No, this is not the same as simply cropping.

Uh....no. Go to this link, and scroll down to see a graphical explanation of how it works. The GH5s uses a slightly oversized sensor to accommodate all three aspect ratios. It's not as simplistic as merely cropping via software. Panny also uses this in their new LX series camera.

 

Panasonic Lumix GH5S review so far - Cameralabs

 

As an engineer AND as a photographer . . . What I said stands . . . There is no such thing as an "oversized" sensor. The sensor simply has a size. You don't use the entire sensor to capture the image in any single aspect ratio. That means that EVERY aspect ratio is simply a crop the full image area of the sensor.

 

The rest is written by the marketing team not the engineering group.

No, that's not true. The sensor is not a typical 4/3 sensor. With a true multi-aspect sensor you can get full resolution images at three different aspect ratios. No, this is not the same as simply cropping.

There is no way you can do that. I know that Panasonic in their newer cameras use sensor larger than 4/3 but still it's a waste because you don't use the entire sensor.

To Ed and BeBu, the sensor is oversized for the m4/3 image circle and the aspect ratio using different areas of the sensor. No, it never uses every single pixel at any resolution, but that's not the point. The point is that it allows different ratios to produce the same resolution image (number of pixels). Again, not just a crop of a standard size m4/3 sensor.

Rest assured that the new Pany/Leica/Sigma "L" mount cameras will have a 24x36 mm sensor (not a square or an oversized FF sensor). I guess I am happy that they have chosen not to create an addition new lens mount since we have 2 additional new mounts introduced just this month. I would expect the new Panasonic cameras to have robust video specs in order to compete against Canon/Nikon/Sony FF mirrorless, and they will certainly need some significant glass available out of the gate. Don't know how exciting this will be to still photographers compared to the alternative FF mirrorless systems which have a large existing user base (like 130 million EF lenses sold to date and I assume a similar Nikon F user base), or Sony with 3rd generation products and native lenses built out to 400MM.

To Ed and BeBu, the sensor is oversized for the m4/3 image circle and the aspect ratio using different areas of the sensor. No, it never uses every single pixel at any resolution, but that's not the point. The point is that it allows different ratios to produce the same resolution image (number of pixels). Again, not just a crop of a standard size m4/3 sensor.

I much rather has it record every pixel it has and then I can crop in post.