Archival film storage in plastic pp boxes ?

Hello,

 

I will be away from my lab for quite a while, and I am very concerned about what could happen to my negatives. Decades of work… They are all stored in archival print files sleeves inside archival cardboard binders. But what if there’s a leak, flood or whatever in my absence… I can’t figure out the best strategy for storing the binders.

 

I am considering storing them in Muji polypropylene boxes (MUJI Online - Welcome to the MUJI Online Store.) with a plastic drape on top, but I am afraid plastic containers like that don’t let a lot of air in and that it might develop some mold or other nasty things… I once found a film and contact print that turned completely solid like cardboard inside one of these boxes. It was among others photographic material that were ok, so I couldn’t figure out what happened…

 

Am I being paranoid? Any suggestions?

 

Any knowledgeable opinion would be most welcome !

 

With all my thanks.

 

Vania

Am I being paranoid?

Not at all.

Any suggestions?

this is more difficult. I personally prefer to have my slides in loose groups in metal boxes. I am afraid of the 'closed' nature of the sleeves and prefer the slides to have circulation of clean, dry air.

But you are not going to (be able to) change your whole system now, even if you wanted to.

 

I suppose you could do as you planned, but add a dehumidifier like silica gel or some other dessicant for each of the boxes.

 

This is another reason I took the time and trouble to scan all of my slides and negatives. I still archive the originals, but also have multiple digital backups.

Edited July 28, 2018 by JDMvW

I also have my slides in group boxes, but negatives in PrintFile pages.

 

In humid areas, a dessicant is probably good.

Many years ago, I had the idea to put dessicant bags in my slide boxes.

(A bag in one group slot in a group box.)

 

I made little cloth bags, filled them with dessicant, and heated them to dry

in a 200C lab oven. Turned out that the cloth I used didn't survive 200C.

 

I never got to making bags again.

Not at all.

 

I personally prefer to have my slides in loose groups in metal boxes. I am afraid of the 'closed' nature of the sleeves and prefer the slides to have circulation of clean, dry air.

But you are not going to (be able to) change your whole system now, even if you wanted to.

 

I suppose you could do as you planned, but add a dehumidifier like silica gel or some other dessicant for each of the boxes.

 

This is another reason I took the time and trouble to scan all of my slides and negatives. I still archive the originals, but also have multiple digital backups.

 

 

This is a good idea....somewhere that air can circulate.

So it’s getting confusing,. I finally purchased a metal box like that (Coffre habitat en acier 60 litres) to put all my archival negative boxes, thinking I will cover it with a plastic cover. The box painting process is lacquered in a oven and it smells of paint quite a bit… So now I am worried that the fumes (the painting smell) will affect the negatives somehow… Do you think it might be a problem ? I don’t want to take any risk.

 

This is driving me nuts. What system should I go with? plastic with no air in which I could drill a few holes eventually, or lacquered metal with painting smell?…

 

Thank you for your help! I am leaving in two days so advise would be much appreciated!

Fungi and mould spores are airborne and constantly present. So I don't see the logic of allowing free air circulation that's only going to bring yet more spores to the party. Plus there's no control of humidity with a free airflow, and those little spores need moisture to take hold.

 

I'd go for hermetically sealed plastic storage with a large activated silica gel de-humidifier sachet inside. And maybe squirt dry nitrogen inside before sealing - although that may be hard to find in small canisters.

 

PS. Holes in a container don't 'circulate' air. Unless there's some mechanically-created or thermal draft, then air will just sit inside a container without moving. The only things that are going to change the air inside the partial barrier are variations in humidity and temperature. Once humid air is inside, it will tend to condense on any surface colder than the air temperature, and this is obviously not a good thing.

Edited August 1, 2018 by rodeo_joe|1

But it is better to have the holes if the temp changes......

Store in a cool, dry, dark place pretty much fits the bill.....

I wouldn’t think the spores would be an issue without moisture.

The humidity would be controlled in today’s air conditioned homes.

I have 40 year old negatives stored in a binder of sleeves that have simply been in the house in the high humidity environment of the Deep South and they are as they were when I sleeved them all those years ago.

The normal use of AC adjusted the humidity enough to resolve any potential issue.

Edited August 1, 2018 by Moving On

I wouldn't overthink this too much. Kodak's Storage and Care of KODAK Photographic Materials guidelines are a good rule: http://imaging.kodakalaris.com/sites/uat/files/wysiwyg/pro/cis_e30.pdf

 

They state this regarding storage of negatives: "Protect negatives from light. Light affects photographic dyes; for short-term storage, put negatives in a dark place—metal drawers or file boxes, for example. Metal is better than wood or plastic because wood and plastic may contain preservatives or volatile substances that can affect the negatives."

 

They aren't accounting for floods occurring, but if you are that worried about storing negatives in your lab, perhaps you should rent an offsite location for storage with little to no risk of water damage.

"But it is better to have the holes if the temp changes......"

 

- Why?

What's your reasoning there?

 

Having done some research on thermostat enclosures, I can only repeat that having air vents in an otherwise closed box doesn't automatically make air circulate. The 'stale' air will just sit in the box indefinitely, unless forced in or out of any air vents by a draught.

 

Food safe plastic materials have few volatiles and are far easier to make hermetically sealed than a metal or wood container. Drape some opaque material over them, or put them in a cupboard to exclude light and the job's done.

Under normal circumstances, you store these negs as best you can. OK, you are going away for a while, but the chances of some catastrophic event occurring are probably less in your absence than they are with it (assuming some catastrophic events are due to human error). You don’t feel the need to store them especially carefully under normal conditions, so I would not over worry about it when you are away. Have a great trip!

"But it is better to have the holes if the temp changes......"

 

- Why?

What's your reasoning there?

 

Having done some research on thermostat enclosures, I can only repeat that having air vents in an otherwise closed box doesn't automatically make air circulate. The 'stale' air will just sit in the box indefinitely, unless forced in or out of any air vents by a draught.

 

Food safe plastic materials have few volatiles and are far easier to make hermetically sealed than a metal or wood container. Drape some opaque material over them, or put them in a cupboard to exclude light and the job's done.

Place a sandwich in a plastic container in a cool lunch box.

After a bit take it out.

After a bit more open the container and feel the soggy bread where the moisture condensed.

Any temp. differential causes air movement through those holes.

Eliminating the ventilation between changing temps confines the condensation.

 

The same thing that causes the condensation, temp change, will create air movement.

Edited August 2, 2018 by Moving On

I’ve never tried it with film (distortion) but a vaccum seal would probably be more reliable than a simple hermetic seal.

 

A bit of insight.....

 

Storing Slides and Negatives in home vacuum sealed bags

 

The best storage for photographic negatives is cool or cold storage which slows down rate of deterioration. But if you cannot achieve that, you actually do want some air around them so that these gasses can escape. Compression can also cause sleeves to buckle and wrinkle, causing the plastic sheets to come into contact with the film itself and potentially damage and stick to or mark the film. It is quite rare, but even we have seen an occasional bad batch of archival sleeves leach out impurities onto negatives. It is probably more likely that we would find this rare occurence because we purchase in such great quantities over time.

Your storage system as described does not create a true vacuum (the plastic, however dense and layered, is porous compared to other technical vacuum seal plastics), and will probably have air exchange, just at a slower rate, which can increase the potential for damage inside the bag. (For more on controlled environment storage, you can watch this short and fascinating video from the National Archives and Records Administration on the encasement of the Magna Carta.) You don't want to actually increase the potential for damage by protecting against a "maybe" event. Instead, I would stick with increasing your vigilance about protecting the larger environment by fixing leaks in the home, and using boxes, perhaps photographically safe plastic tub type ones with latching tops, and storing them higher in your home or offsite in a safe environment if you live in a flood plain.

Edited August 2, 2018 by Moving On

The link on the Magna Carta is bad.

Here is a good one:

1297 Magna Carta Encasement Project

Place a sandwich in a plastic container in a cool lunch box.

After a bit take it out.

After a bit more open the container and feel the soggy bread where the moisture condensed.

Any temp. differential causes air movement through those holes.

Eliminating the ventilation between changing temps confines the condensation.

 

The same thing that causes the condensation, temp change, will create air movement.

 

- That's why I also advised enclosing a silica gel dessicant sachet, which would be pointless unless the container was made hermetic. Drilling holes completely defeats the object.

 

Anyway, I guess Vania has already stored his film now and gone away.

I also have my slides in group boxes, but negatives in PrintFile pages.

 

In humid areas, a dessicant is probably good.

Many years ago, I had the idea to put dessicant bags in my slide boxes.

(A bag in one group slot in a group box.)

 

I made little cloth bags, filled them with dessicant, and heated them to dry

in a 200C lab oven. Turned out that the cloth I used didn't survive 200C.

 

I never got to making bags again.

You can buy dessicant pouches online. eBay, B+H Photo, & Archival Methods has them. I know these three ship globally, probably Amazon as well.

 

I keep negs in the polypropylene sleeves and archival boxes from Archival Methods, and fear not.

 

Not so sure a free flow of air on your negs & slides is a good idea: you’re allowing in pollutants & moisture doing that. If I was going to be that paranoid, I’d use a sealable plastic container (Rubbermaid or Tupperware) and get Bloxygen (aerosol can with anhydrous Nitrogen gas, used to keep stains and varnishes from gelling during extended storage) to fill the plastic box before snapping the lid shut.

 

I know of one local commercial photographer who does something similar, storing his archival stuff in a Pelican case. It has an airtight seal, and he uses a tank of anhydrous nitrogen for his commercial work.

 

Then again, I’ve seen folks store old materials in shoeboxes, left for for years in their attic without trouble. What to do..?

I have been storing my negatives in glassines for over 45 years. I put them in regular cardboard filing boxes so I can index them easily, then those are in tuppaware containers with silica packs inside (got m cheap from amazon). I keep it all stacked in my garage... been there for the 42 years Im living in this house, never had any problems. In fact I was looking for something last week from days of yore n everything was fine. I did recharge my silica while I was in there since its a PITA getting to my stuff.

 

BUT NYC isnt as humid as some places you guys live. My garage isnt heated but is connected to the house n gets risdual heat from the house so winter temps never drop below 50F even when the teps outside ar in the teens. Summer temps in there are relatively mild as well, always feels cooler in the garage and basement (above ground) than the rest of the house.

 

As Joe pointed out, spores need moisture... keep it dry and for the most part it will be fine. Just keep after those silica packs... get the ones with indicators. Recharging them is easy in a 150F stove for several hours. I miss my old stove that had a pilot light, it stayed at a constant 150F all the time... used it as my food dehydrator many times for camping.

 

.

The box painting process is lacquered in a oven and it smells of paint quite a bit

 

And, again, you are right to be worried. The human nose is only highly sensitive to certain biological scents (ask your dog). Anything that your nose can pick up is probably vapor that may have chemical effect on film.

 

Here is a slide box that is hard-baked/melted and works well. Metal dividers are much to be preferred to the cardboard ones shown here.