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Ian Copland

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so when can you take a picture?

When I want to.

how do you know someone doesnt want their picture taken?

They may tell me or let me know non-verbally.

rude n invasive? where is that coming from?

From you. Telling people to stay home if they don't want their pics taken in public.

its always the person you shot that becomes rude n invasive thinking they have every right to be confrontational.

If this "always" happens to you as a photographer, you're doing something mighty wrong. You're most likely acting like some kind of jerk on the street if you're "always" getting people acting rude and invasive toward you when you're out shooting.

n told me to get lost

That's what I'd say to you as well.

if you feel having your picture taken when in public is rude and invasive

I don't. I love having my picture taken. Don't mind it at all. But, regardless, how people feel don't make them rude and invasive. How they act does.

yes ethics... thats your personal way of thinking.

That's right.

not everyone will agree with your ethics.

That's right.

they arent universal.

That's right.

political correctness

Is a stupid buzz phrase tossed around in shallowness only to provoke.

again, people construe their ethics as law

I don't know what "people" do, but I don't.

are you imposing your ethics on me?

No.

unfortunately we do live by the law, not personal preference or thinking.

Interesting that you're the one speaking for "we." I was the one speaking for myself, how I do things.

you think any of the famous street photographers got permission to get their shots?

I doubt you'll ever be a famous street photographer, so I wouldn't worry too much about emulating them.

We didn't need dialogue. We had faces!
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It pretty much comes down to individual interaction on a case by case basis.

I don’t imagine either of you two having any real issues taking pictures of folks out in public.

The rare conflicts in life aren’t necessarily a bad thing.

You are both right.

A common sense of courtesy has served me well for many years.

I come back to a first grade public school teacher’s advice to the class back in 1967.

“Your rights end where another person’s begin”

Simple, direct, and very functional for a civil society.

Edited by Moving On
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I do think digital changed the situation. Distribution, sure, but also immediacy: if I take someone's picture and they don't like me doing so, there's more recourse in digital. With film you can't (convincingly) discard one photo because someone asks you to, without throwing away unconnected work. And you can't show someone what you shot to defuse the situation - many people could think a photo was showing them more personally or in a worse light than it was.

 

If someone complains about a film photo, other than promising not to use it, you're stuck. If they demand you throw away the film, they're asking to destroy your work. Legally and morally, that's ridiculous. But in digital you can both show someone what you took to try to defuse their anger, and offer to delete that image and no others. And while I appreciate some interesting photos have come explicitly against the wishes of the subject, I generally don't see why you wouldn't do so, apologise, and move on.

 

Which makes it more ironic that someone with a film camera gets seen as more acceptable. (Maybe some people are relying on film shooters using public film labs and them being called out on truly inappropriate images, whereas a digital image is usable with no third-party inconvenient, but that's clearly fairly misinformed among actual photo enthusiasts with home development skills.)

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  • 4 weeks later...
If someone complains about a film photo, other than promising not to use it, you're stuck...[w]hich makes it more ironic that someone with a film camera gets seen as more acceptable.

That's an interesting thought, Andrew. But I suspect that most people today are either so young that film is an abstract concept or so uninformed that they consider it obsolete. All cameras are digital in most minds. Sadly, here's my templated image of current café culture:

 

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Best regards -

 

David

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