Cafe

I smiled sweetly and apologetically at the guy who gave me the finger. I like to think I can be disarming, although the guys who yelled "f*ck you and your squirrel" at me (only half of which seems remotely feasible) indicate that I have limits.

But I did have a camera with me in London today, and had in mind my best "doing a project" spiel.

Unfortunately (perhaps due to limited practice) I found very few things that would have made a good shot - way too many people moving too fast for me to capture anything. My best possibility was a young lady isolated in front of a shop, drinking a coffee and staring into space pensively. Her expression would have made a good photo, but I chickened out on the basis that if I'm going to start going up to strangers and asking if I can photograph them, I probably shouldn't start with an apparently teenaged girl.

Still, Norman has already called me naive in the other recent thread, so clearly I'm half way to Winogrand already. :-)

way too many people moving too fast for me to capture anything.

Sometime, it pays to just step right into the crowd.

"Kim Kardashian ‘dreaming of being the next First lady of America"

Okay, I was having a nightmare.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezcyd5xtY9c

A daymare when I was doing my yoga thing.

"I smiled sweetly and apologetically at the guy who gave me the finger" .Andrew.

That's life. Are you sort of a ugly dude? maybe a crooked smile which looks like a moment of anguish....or, perhaps you stuck a big Canon with a white zoom in his face.

For a very large fee I will teach you the ropes.;))

;))

Are you sort of a ugly dude? maybe a crooked smile which looks like a moment of anguish....or, perhaps you stuck a big Canon with a white zoom in his face.

You take that back. I shoot Nikon. :-) (And I was some distance away. But I don't claim to be particularly handsome - being so might be an advantage in these circumstances, but I'm in no position to tell.)

A compact in a leather case that makes people mistake me for a Leica shooter does, for some reason, seem to help. I only got it because I couldn't find a small soft case that fits, but apparently looking like a hipster is disarming. It's not really as flexible as a dSLR, though.

You take that back. I shoot Nikon. :) (And I was some distance away. But I don't claim to be particularly handsome - being so might be an advantage in these circumstances, but I'm in no position to tell.)

 

A compact in a leather case that makes people mistake me for a Leica shooter does, for some reason, seem to help. I only got it because I couldn't find a small soft case that fits, but apparently looking like a hipster is disarming. It's not really as flexible as a dSLR, though.

And you don't think how a camera look is important?

And you don't think how a camera look is important?

Curse you and your accurate memory of claims I've made on pnet in the past, BeBu. :-) Let's say landscape as wildlife has never seemed to care (other than spooking a squirrel with a big lens), and I personally don't care. I concede that the impression you make while street shooting (or possibly when on doing a paid job) might matter.

I still don't think this justifies Nikon making the J1 in pink, although if the experts on this forum advise me it'll make a difference I'm prepared to get out the spray paint. Or perhaps...

Curse you and your accurate memory of claims I've made on pnet in the past, BeBu. :) Let's say landscape as wildlife has never seemed to care (other than spooking a squirrel with a big lens), and I personally don't care. I concede that the impression you make while street shooting (or possibly when on doing a paid job) might matter.

 

I still don't think this justifies Nikon making the J1 in pink, although if the experts on this forum advise me it'll make a difference I'm prepared to get out the spray paint. Or perhaps...

Well sorry that's off topic but I do understand the problem of shooting in a cafe. I don't dare to do it any more.

Well sorry that's off topic but I do understand the problem of shooting in a cafe. I don't dare to do it any more.

You are a bit trapped with the subject, whether you took their photo candidly and they didn't like it, or whether they didn't like being asked to pose. You can't just walk off, like on the street. It's like trying to strike up a conversation in a train carriage and being rebuffed. Plus the cafe is probably private land, which brings the owner into the equation.

You are a bit trapped with the subject, whether you took their photo candidly and they didn't like it, or whether they didn't like being asked to pose. You can't just walk off, like on the street. It's like trying to strike up a conversation in a train carriage and being rebuffed. Plus the cafe is probably private land, which brings the owner into the equation.

It's a pity because I know back in the late 70's and early 80's I could do that without offending anyone. People didn't pay attention to being photographed. My problem back then was my film couldn't have high enough ISO without the huge nasty grain.

The kitchen, Palace Cafe, New Orleans

You are a bit trapped with the subject, whether you took their photo candidly and they didn't like it, or whether they didn't like being asked to pose. You can't just walk off, like on the street. It's like trying to strike up a conversation in a train carriage and being rebuffed. Plus the cafe is probably private land, which brings the owner into the equation.

there is nothing wrong with just walking away if someone is acting aggresive because you took their picture... sometimes running is just as appropiate.

the chink in the legal armor is if you can see it from public property, its fair game to shoot it. ive been confronted way too many times shooting from the sidewalk looking at private property. a beautiful hotel awning over their main entrance caused a memorable scene with police n all. nothing the cops could do about it except ask you to move on because you are blocking pedestrians.

but of course on the flip side for dealing with rational people, i offer them a nice copy of the photo. its much easier in the digital age... email it n let them do prints if they like. youd also find them to be very cooperative as well... get a few more shots to include others and more appealing backgrounds.

Hey Barry... not sure. I know it wasn’t at the cafe we met up at years ago. I think mine was on Columbus St.

This was at a little cafe at North Beach, but I don't remember the streets I just remember we stopped for an expresso.

Paul: Yes. Apologising and leaving before anyone gets more cross - or even deleting the photo (easier on digital!) and getting out of their life - is reasonable. Not everyone will like everything we do. My concern in taking a photo in a confined space like a cafe (assuming you're eating/drinking there) or public transport is that you're potentially stuck in the vicinity of someone who has decided you've offended them. While they're perhaps less likely to cause a scene than on a street (as in the recent story of a man slapping a woman who objected to his cat calling in France, caught on restaurant CCTV) it's also going to be more awkward.

But it's not just people photography. I've been told off for taking a photo of the garden outside the US Bank tower in the LA, and reflections off other buildings, even with no people in the shot.

Be proud of me, though. I took a photo of a local church recently with a lady checking her phone in front of it, as an old/new contrast thing. And I asked her nicely and everything. I'll make a street photographer yet. (Taking a photo just of a person may take a few more trips...)

The change in attitude is internet driven.

Digital phone photography and world wide exposition forever can be a spooky thing.

Folks get nervous at having themselves exposed to the world for a whole number of reasons, both personal and legal.

Lawyers and the internet can be a dreadful combination.

Throw children and teens into the mix and you open up a whole new dimension.

Impacts upon future employment, college entrance, sports participation,social interaction.....

Most is harmless but from the subject’s point of view a stranger’s intentions being unknown can be unnerving.

dont delete the pix. no one has any right to take your equipment or delete anything.

attatude is everything. if you are easily intimidated, you'll never get anything. shoot like you own the place. if on private property, yes them to death like a tourist, worse case you will be askes to leave. but as long as you are on public ground, anything you see is yours... laws differ by state n country so check first.

look up photography rules for where you plan to shoot. some parks, like central park, zoos n gardens run by a conservancy, are now considered private property and have some rules even though they are open to the public. but most times, as an amature, you can get away with almost anything within reason. most times they dont enforce, but do warn if they think you are a pro.

inside shooting... get friendly.

“inside shooting... get friendly.”

I’ve noticed appearance can go a long way as well. If I let my chin whiskers grow out into the snowy goatee, and put on the gray fedora and wire rimmed readers, then shoot with an old film camera, people see me completely differently.

Harmless old man.......

The change in attitude is internet driven.

Digital phone photography and world wide exposition forever can be a spooky thing.

Folks get nervous at having themselves exposed to the world for a whole number of reasons, both personal and legal.

Lawyers and the internet can be a dreadful combination.

Throw children and teens into the mix and you open up a whole new dimension.

Impacts upon future employment, college entrance, sports participation,social interaction.....

Most is harmless but from the subject’s point of view a stranger’s intentions being unknown can be unnerving.

but regardless if they dont like it, its not illegal. you have no expected right to privacy in public. try making a case for celebreties? hahaha yeah right!... and they have the means to stop ya but cant do diddley squats because paparozzi got pix of them on nude beaches or whatever. there are very few places for expected right to privacy in the USA.

If you are paranoid someone may get your pic when out in public?... stay home! wear a nixon mask! dont do anything you may regret later when in public... someone with a 400mm lens gotcha!. all those security cameras saw you!

the harmless old man look always works.

but regardless if they dont like it, its not illegal. you have no expected right to privacy in public. try making a case for celebreties? hahaha yeah right!... and they have the means to stop ya but cant do diddley squats because paparozzi got pix of them on nude beaches or whatever. there are very few places for expected right to privacy in the USA.

 

If you are paranoid someone may get your pic when out in public?... stay home! wear a nixon mask! dont do anything you may regret later when in public... someone with a 400mm lens gotcha!. all those security cameras saw you!

 

the harmless old man look always works.

Regrettable but not unexpected attitude.

I don’t base my behavior on pushing the limits of all that’s legal. I base it on a personal sense of ethics which affords people respect and dignity even when they’re in public. Just because I can do something doesn’t mean it’s a good idea for me to choose to do it. In short, I know when NOT to take a picture as well as when I’m ALLOWED to take a picture. That it’s legal is rarely a good excuse for rude or invasive behavior or for taking a picture of someone who doesn’t want their picture to be taken. I’m perfectly willing to share the streets and other public spaces with people who don’t want their picture taken without resorting to telling the to stay home!

when NOT to take a picture as well as when I’m ALLOWED to take a picture. That it’s legal is rarely a good excuse for rude or invasive behavior or for taking a picture of someone who doesn’t want their picture to be taken.

so when can you take a picture? when are you allowed? how do you know someone doesnt want their picture taken?.. do they wear signs?

rude n invasive? where is that coming from? seems no one wants their picture taken, thinking its a valueable comodity n they should be paid for it which is usually the root of their objections... not because they are wanted in 3 states or being hunted by the mob. personal space? hahaha get in the subway n see how small that space really is.

its always the person you shot that becomes rude n invasive thinking they have every right to be confrontational. the rule is dont argue with them n walk away because it always escalates to the point of being physically threatened. ive got a picture of a short lady kissing a great dane that looked down on her... she was reciprocating the kisses n holding him by the ears. when she got wind i was shooting her, she came running accross the street yelling like a crazy person. rude? invasive? she walked with me for 3 blocks demanding i give her my film and swatting my camera arm as i tried my best to defuse her anger by offering prints n complemented her with every step. she then demanded my id so she can sue me.... ill sue your ass for every penny is what she was yelling at the top of her lungs. i stoped a cop n explained the situation with the woman yelling, accusing me of taking her picture without her permission. they detained her n told me to get lost. was i invasive and rude? i only took her picture from accross the street.

if you feel having your picture taken when in public is rude and invasive, you are one of those people that doesnt know the law. if you feel you need permission, you are kidding yourself.

yes ethics... thats your personal way of thinking. not everyone will agree with your ethics. they arent universal. political correctness or what i call peer censorship isnt law or based on ethics... again, people construe their ethics as law. are you imposing your ethics on me? too many people get offended over the slightest things today because everything has to be PC or ethical... but they are absolutely in the wrong in the face of the law. unfortunately we do live by the law, not personal preference or thinking. its not taking advantage, its MY right by law... not yours to stop me because you dont like it or dont agree with the law.

you think any of the famous street photographers got permission to get their shots? keep dreaming.