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Nikon D850, Early Impressions


ShunCheung

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Thank you Mike!

Definitely a case of RTFM ... I had totally missed the fact there is an entirely different set of focus options for Live View.. gawd! All good now :-)

I have to say, this camera is one hell of a piece of work. I read a South African website last night going into the minutia of all the various AF options and when to use what. A LOT of thought has been put into this camera.

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Two more shots ... One is a blue heron I took today. The only thing I did to this was mute the blown highlights (-21) and crop it a bit. Nothing else was touched. The way this camera renders colors is out of this world … 64ISO, 200 mm, f2.8, 1/125. I figure I was about 30 feet away.

http://fotoni.ca/other/blueheron.jpg

 

This one is a stack ... I'm getting better at Zerene stacker... It's a memorial glass, a solid blob of glass with some blue stuff in it. The wavy lines are remnants of a cremation. This really shows off the through and through sharpness you can get with focus stacking. It's really stupidly simple too ... set the camera, flip the eyepiece shut and wait 2 mins and all your pics are done, made in complete silence. Throw into Zerene, press go. Wait. Marvel.

http://fotoni.ca/other/dust.jpg

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What lens and aperture was the glass blob shot made with?

I shot it with a 105 2.5 Micro Nikkor. The stacked image has no EXIF data. It ended up being 256MB in size. I dumped the original shots so have no real idea. I think it was f5.6

EXIF seems trashed with a stacked image!

Yes, however you can elect to apply some EXIF in Zerene but I haven't bothered to figure out how yet.

Can you 'do' an inclined ruler so we can see (or you can tell us) the step size?

The step size varies with the distance, angle etc. Here's some more reading: What formula is used to create the lens focus scale?: Nikon FX SLR (DF, D1-D5, D600-D850) Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

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  • 4 months later...
So after a number of months and thousands of shots, I must say I like this camera more and more. The one thing that is a step back is the battery usage. I get maybe 250-300 shots out of a charge, if that. Rear display is off unless activated. With the D700 I would get 3 times that .... Maybe it's the way it is. Same behavior on both batteries, both real Nikon batteries. The batteries also run down when not used. Often I will see 94% or so when they were added to the camera a few days earlier after a full charge. They were 100% when they went in. Wifi is off etc. No extraneous usage or "leakage" that I can think of.
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So after a number of months and thousands of shots, I must say I like this camera more and more. The one thing that is a step back is the battery usage. I get maybe 250-300 shots out of a charge, if that. Rear display is off unless activated. With the D700 I would get 3 times that .... Maybe it's the way it is. Same behavior on both batteries, both real Nikon batteries. The batteries also run down when not used. Often I will see 94% or so when they were added to the camera a few days earlier after a full charge. They were 100% when they went in. Wifi is off etc. No extraneous usage or "leakage" that I can think of.

I think I get far more than 300 captures on the D850 for a fully charged EN-EL15/EN-EL15a. Sometimes I have a GPS on the camera, and that really increases battery usage.

 

By any chance your batteries are old (I guess the one that came with the D850 shouldn't be old) or you capture plenty of video?

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I've been using my EN-EL15 batteries from my D810/D800 and V1 (I've yet to use the grey EN-EL15a that came with the D850), but I've also seen the battery both running down while the camera is left alone, and eating through batteries faster than I think my D810 does, although the battery life certainly isn't terrible and I'm getting several hundred shots out of it, and I'm probably capturing and reviewing more than the D810 did because of the speed. Likewise I have wireless stuff as turned off as I can get it (both bluetooth off and in airplane mode). The D810 I can leave on a shelf for a month, and have the battery still full when I come back, but not the D850 - Thom Hogan reported that the D850 drains batteries for a while when charging its internal clock battery, but I think I've seen the issue after enough use that this shouldn't be it. I suspect the D850's stellar battery test numbers come from not having an integrated flash.

 

I'll have to see whether I do better (for some reason) with the EN-EL15a. It's not the end of the world, but it is a little annoying. I had the battery go flat on me when a couple asked me to shoot their photo recently (I shot it, but then couldn't show them), which was embarrassing; I'd taken quite a lot of shots that day, but with a D810 I generally expect never to run flat. Fortunately it didn't happen when I was being accused of taking photos of children, so I still had enough battery to show my accuser all the photos of squirrels I'd actually been taking.

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NMy D500 also drains batteries when not in use, even with every comm's function switched off.

 

I think all camera's which use Snapbridge show this behaviour.

 

I have been experimenting with ESP32 chips for iOT and domotica, those chips also pair Bleutooth LTE and WiFi technology.

If Nikon uses similair chips in the "SnapBridge enabled" camera's then this could explain this behaviour because those chips , also when put to "low urrency mode"and hence "Sleep mo0de"( Airplane Mode") keep using some little current to check if they need to switch back to "wake up" mode....

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Thanks, c.p.m. That would be annoying if so, but I suppose not the end of the world. I hope Nikon find an alternative solution in the future - not least because I have exactly zero interest in Snapbridge, and if they're causing a power drain then these chips are nothing but a negative for me. I wonder whether I can get Nikon service to cut some power lines?
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Not sure what chips Nikon uses, maybe multiple chips into1 integrated, or on 1 board with others ( I never did surgery on a Nikon camera..:D) but then still, since ESP32 is a complex programmable microcontroller with comm's functions builtin, cutting power lines might render the whole camera dead as a dodo ..

 

so there is an advantage for the D810 then… no Snapbrige builtin , comm's through WU1(A or B ?) ….

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The one thing that is a step back is the battery usage. I get maybe 250-300 shots out of a charge, if that. Rear display is off unless activated. With the D700 I would get 3 times that .... Maybe it's the way it is. Same behavior on both batteries, both real Nikon batteries. The batteries also run down when not used. Often I will see 94% or so when they were added to the camera a few days earlier after a full charge. They were 100% when they went in. Wifi is off etc. No extraneous usage or "leakage" that I can think of.

 

Haven't shot as little as 250 to 300 shots per battery since the D1/D1H/D1X days

Since then with the D2/D3/D800 never fully depleted any battery despite at times

shooting several 1000's of shots

 

That number may sound a bit excessive, but refers to while surf and catwalk,

i.e. repeated short bursts of several shots eg when a surfer makes/might make a possibly

spectacular acton or a model while he/she walks the length of the catwalk

 

Must admit with the D800 and D850 I always have a spare battery at hand

(a grip with another EN EL 15/15a) which I as a matter of precaution swap about

halfway a shoot (by changing the battery sequence between body and grip in the menu)

But the 'first battery' as a rule always shows to still have 60% (and usually more)

left despite that I always have the control image ON, use auto ISO and AF-C on.

Obviously no Wifi, Blue thingie and other frivolities switched on

 

Don't do much fiddling around with the settings nor play around with Live View all the time

to get the 'perfect' set up before shooting/with each shot though, which obviously also

avoids draining the battery a lot. And I always take it out when I'm not using the camera

 

Haven't really put my D850 to the test with many shoots yet

But with the one catwalk show I did shoot with it (perfect testing ground to find your way with

a new camera) ended up with around 1350 shots in the setup as described above.

The battery still showed around 70% charge left achterwards

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I should be clear that I'm not saying that the D850's battery is bad. Checking a shoot from last week, I got through well over a thousand images on a single charge over the course of a few hours, with a moderate amount of chimping (although also some burst shooting), though it did die at the end. Still, that was done starting with the battery down one bar from full, because the full battery had been left in the camera for a few days. Normally I carry a spare, but on this occasion I forgot.

 

For my film cameras, I store them with the battery left out. I've generally left the battery in my dSLRs partly to support the internal clock battery. I guess with the D850 I may just have to get into the habit of leaving the battery out, but since I normally store it in its "don't scratch the newly-unprotected touchscreen" wrap, leaving the battery out is a little inconvenient.

 

Of course, I do have the grip, so I suppose an alternative is to use the knock-off EN-EL18bs that I have instead of the internal battery and rely on their monstrous capacity. But then I lose the L-plate. Choices choices.

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Kevin, I actually don't own a D850 yet. The test sample I used has long gone back to Nikon USA. At least I don't recall any battery drain problem. I'll be happy to relay information to Nikon, but we need to have very concrete facts about the issues. Otherwise, any D850 owner can get in touch with Nikon themselves and inquire about the battery situation. Whether Nikon provides a satisfactory response or not is another issue.

 

Thanks to the EN-EL15 exchange related the D500 in 2016, I have quite a few fairly new EL-EL15 batteries and I have 1 or 2 spare in each one of the 3 camera bags I normally use. Having a spare is almost never an issue for me, and I rarely need to go to the spare.

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I get a lot of shots with the D850 per EN-EL15 / 15a charge, can't put a precise number to it but of the order of 900 shots if I'm shooting fairly rapidly. I can pay attention to it and report back when I have more precise data. If I shoot slowly then I do get fewer shots (one half of that).
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Thanks for the data point Ilkka. That somewhere mimics my experience. I think the LE Bluetooth is indeed what maybe hampering us. It's the same with Android tables ... no way to shut the drain 100%. Very annoying but I guess you can at least remove the battery in the D850. Does anyone know how long the onboard battery lasts before needing a charge?
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I thought all wifi and bluetooth activity cease when the camera is in airplane mode. I've noticed that when Snapbridge is being used it can lead to lower responsivity (slight delays in camera functions) in some cases, so I only turn airplane mode off when I need to transfer an image.
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Yes, I've had airplane mode on and bluetooth disabled (Thom Hogan reported that the former doesn't imply the latter for some reason), but I'm still seeing drain. I did get over a thousand shots out of it on a (by the time I started to use it) less than full battery, so I'm not distraught, but I liked my "leave it charged on a shelf until I need it" option with the D810.

 

I might see whether I can get Nikon UK to tell me anything tomorrow, if I have time.

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Maybe the D850 suffers from the same issue that seems to affect the D500 - the battery percentage indicator is way too pessimistic (especially when the battery charge is low) - I just checked a battery that in my D500 shows 15% in my D810 - where it's indicated at 43%. Less dramatic differences are observed when the battery was at around 50-60% - the D810 indicated less than 10% more. Naturally, the current draw on the D500 might be higher than on the D810 (which at least in my case doesn't have to deal with network connectivity at all (on the D500, airplane mode is on). I don't have a D850, so I can't check whether the battery indicator would show the same results as on the D500.

 

I get a lot of shots with the D850 per EN-EL15 / 15a charge, can't put a precise number to it but of the order of 900 shots if I'm shooting fairly rapidly. I can pay attention to it and report back when I have more precise data. If I shoot slowly then I do get fewer shots (one half of that).

Seems to coincide with what I see on the D500 - rapid firing leads to less battery exhaustion than taking things more leisurely. Like a few hundred shots on a battery charge in leisure mode vs well over 1500 when machine-gunning it. Since I don't do the latter all too often (mostly at airshows), I don't have many data points for my comparisons.

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I got about 1300 shots out of mine when shooting squirrels, but I was doing quite a few bursts. I just checked my D850, which had a fully-charged battery put in it on Saturday, and it now reports 93% left despite not being used since. The two batteries I've used with it are the -01 versions; I do have a -20 version (the one they were swapping it with for D500 use) in my D810, so I'll do a swap at some point and see whether there's a difference.

 

If I get around to asking Nikon UK tomorrow if they've heard of this, I'll report back.

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Hmmm.. it seems Bluetooth LE does stay in listening mode (looking at some industry forums). "Off" just means it won't pair. It can still spy on you ... it works like an RFID when off.

Agree, and i suspect that also the RFID receiver part in the D500 ( i guess also in other "Snapbridge Camera's ") also stay's "listening"although it is onlyneeded when Snapbridge is switched on until "pairing"is done again…

Not sure how i can test this though .

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I've just had a word with Nikon UK about the D850 battery drain (when off) issue...

  • They're not aware of the issue, and would like to look at my camera. (I'm going overseas next month and don't want to be without it, but I'll drop it off with them when I get back.) They're interested that others have reported the same thing, and there's nothing from Nikon.
  • Cameras after the D500 were made "compatible" with the -01 version of the batteries, so there should be no difference between the -01 and -20 versions of the batteries I've been using.
  • They would only have suggested airplane mode and turning off bluetooth, so there's nothing they're aware of us not doing.
  • Separately, they have "a process" for sending feature ideas upstream (and promise that most camera features come from customer requests), but no obvious way for me to sit down with a manager to try to ensure that they're being advocated for. But it's still worth me doing my feature poll (as soon as I have a free weekend to write everything up, because it's not a small task.) Continue watching this space.

Until I can drop the camera off, I think my next step is to prod Thom Hogan and see whether he's seen this behaviour from cameras in the courses he gives - he's reported several issues that he's seen in the cameras of others, so might have seen this. Any other ideas? I'll report back once Nikon UK have had a look at my camera (if there hasn't been an advisory by then).

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