Sanford Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 I lost most of my Apple Weather Widgets for weeks, as did millions of others. No one came unglued. Old Apple aficionados took it in stride knowing they would return some day, maybe in weeks a month. Should we hold P/N to a higher standard the Apple? These things, which we expect to function flawlessly over many types of browsers, computers and other devices, usually work themselves out eventually. Patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaellinder Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Sanford, I get your point, but I'm not sure that comparing PN with Apple is entirely appropriate. Before the beta of PN(2) was rolled out, Admin asked members for suggestions and many of provided them. After the rollout, there may have been more comments. Then came PN(2).1, which was axed quite soon thereafter. And finally, PN(2).2. What thoroughly disappointed me was that, if I remember correctly, Admin did not provide a Use Guide or Manual of any kind. Fortunately Leslie Reid voluntarily initiated 2 threads on Site Help which were quite comprehensive. These are the only manuals as such I've ever seen. In my opinion, the real problem, which already has been noted ad nauseam, is that PN is so understaffed that the thought of preparing a manual must have curdled Glenn's blood. He and whatever tech staff there is appear to try their best to respond to member concerns; I get that. But since many, if not most, of us are members, we also are customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norma Desmond Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Comparing Apple to PN is like comparing . . . well . . . :rolleyes: 3 We didn't need dialogue. We had faces! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCL Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Tossing water on a fire only works if it isn't an oil or electrical fire. The Apple-P/N comparison doesn't work IMHO. The improvements since changeover have been too slow in coming and not particularly responsive to users expectations. Take my input for what it is worth, but I have had experience in doing massive conversions, and the P/N one got an "F" grade in my book. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gungajim Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Sanford, I get your point, but I'm not sure that comparing PN with Apple is entirely appropriate. Before the beta of PN(2) was rolled out, Admin asked members for suggestions and many of provided them. After the rollout, there may have been more comments. Then came PN(2).1, which was axed quite soon thereafter. And finally, PN(2).2. What thoroughly disappointed me was that, if I remember correctly, Admin did not provide a Use Guide or Manual of any kind. Fortunately Leslie Reid voluntarily initiated 2 threads on Site Help which were quite comprehensive. These are the only manuals as such I've ever seen. In my opinion, the real problem, which already has been noted ad nauseam, is that PN is so understaffed that the thought of preparing a manual must have curdled Glenn's blood. He and whatever tech staff there is appear to try their best to respond to member concerns; I get that. But since many, if not most, of us are members, we also are customers. At some point during the development process, I remember asking Glenn if there would be a User Guide. I specifically remember his answer because it so amused me. He said had discussed the question with the firm they retained to develop the site and they told him, "There is no need for a User's Guide if the site is well designed." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moving On Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 As a casual user the site works fine for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaellinder Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 At some point during the development process, I remember asking Glenn if there would be a User Guide. I specifically remember his answer because it so amused me. He said had discussed the question with the firm they retained to develop the site and they told him, "There is no need for a User's Guide if the site is well designed." My own experience with techies led me to conclude long ago that everyone has the same level of expertise as them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack McRitchie Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 As a casual user the site works fine for me. If you post no pictures (which it seems you haven't or perhaps they're private) have no galleries and limit yourself to the written forums, I guess it works fine. I notice you posted a lot in the forums according to the 700+ contributions noted under the forum icon but when I clicked on that I was informed that "User has no forum posts". So it appears you are a ghost, my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin McAmera Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 (edited) FWIW, I can see the list of Moving On's posts, whether I click 'Postings' or the 'Messages' number 7xx. I too only use the fora here, and I'm quite happy with how it works. I have done some writing for camera-wiki, and I know writing foolproof help pages is hard. However, I don't think it should be too much trouble to have something. Edited June 15, 2018 by Dustin McAmera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norma Desmond Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 The forums work pretty well and the galleries don’t. That’s been the case for some time. I’ve chosen not to deal with my personal gallery (which I’ve barely touched since the relaunch a year and a half ago) because of the myriad problems I encountered when I gave it a go and the amount of time wasted trying to do things that wouldn’t take hold. Though I was content with and enjoyed No Words for a year, it didn’t continue to hold my interest, so it’s too bad the galleries side of the site doesn’t function better, because I used to like the interaction there. Until I hear about its improving, I won’t waste my time there. 1 We didn't need dialogue. We had faces! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moving On Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 (edited) If you post no pictures (which it seems you haven't or perhaps they're private) have no galleries and limit yourself to the written forums, I guess it works fine. I notice you posted a lot in the forums according to the 700+ contributions noted under the forum icon but when I clicked on that I was informed that "User has no forum posts". So it appears you are a ghost, my friend. You are confused. No ghost involved. I clearly stated “As a casual user”. I have posted many pictures that are not “private”. Edited June 15, 2018 by Moving On Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norma Desmond Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 You are confused. No ghost involved. I have posted many pictures that are not “private”. Mark, I don’t believe Jack is confused. I think there may be a simple miscommunication. When Jack said you’ve posted no pictures, I took him to mean no pictures posted to a personal gallery. From what I can tell, you’ve posted pics to forums but don’t have any in a portfolio. I think Jack’s point was to differentiate between the relatively good functionality, which you experience in forums, and the relatively bad functionality, which he experiences in the galleries and critique side of the site. 2 We didn't need dialogue. We had faces! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moving On Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 Spot on Fred. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaellinder Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 My own experience with techies led me to conclude long ago that everyone has the same level of expertise as them. Jim,I would go one step further. Often my communications with techies led me to conclude that they expect others to have the same level of expertise as them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaellinder Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 it’s too bad the galleries side of the site doesn’t function better, because I used to like the interaction there. Until I hear about its improving, I won’t waste my time there Fred, I thought I read a statement from you not too long ago that you were about to start posting photos for critique again. Did you abandon this plan? If so, I would urge you to reconsider. You are one of the PN members from whom I've learned just by viewing and critiquing your work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaellinder Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 As a casual user the site works fine for me. As you can see by the number of images I post for critique and the number of critiques I have provided, I'm not a casual user. From time to time, the site has been maddening. Just when I think it's safe to go back into the water, something else happens - often a previous issue that again has reared its ugly head. Yet I'm still here. Having previously tried to find online photo communities like PN, I succeeded in finding communities like flickr and instagram which are too fluffy. On the flip side, I found others (the names of which I don't remember) which are fully juried. My work in all likelihood doesn't meet their standards. So unless I decide I'm totally fed up with PN, I'm going to hang in. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapaTango Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 The process to where we are now is absolutely the WORST rollout I have ever seen--no less been part of. The real issue was the first version appeared to be an attempt to use vBulletin Communicator to provide forum and gallery functions. It was a colossal failure, and we rolled back to the trusty, v1.whatever. Attempt #3 (our current iteration) took Xenforo and Xen Gallery, and heavily customized them. It is the customization and addressing of bugs that have been the problem. Once one reconciles that things will NEVER be in the form they were for decades under the old Greenspun coding--and that some weaker, some useless, and some close similies do exist--as Gallery features--then it's all good. I say all of this as a web developer with experience in this and other platforms. Websites do not need a 'manual.' At best, a series of FAQ documents serve the purpose. Smarter web designers provide a basic set and then capitalize on user competencies to add and edit others. The sad part is that the very thing that made the community--and the excellence of a great number of members contributing both images and conversation--were irrevocably lost during the totally incompetent manner in which the transition CONTINUES to occur. I stick around for several reasons. I am using the front end galleries as sort of a curated Photobucket. Unfortunately, due to an accident last year, I have not had a lot of interest in many things here and it has fallen behind. Second is that I enjoy a number of members here and their input. Again and sadly, too many continue to leave in frustration and disappointment. :( 2 "I See Things..." The FotoFora Community Experience [Link] A new community for creative photographers. Come join us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norma Desmond Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 Don’t let ‘im fool ya. PapaTango stays cuz o’ me! :):):):eek: [The four emojis are to be read in the rhythm and style of the opening chords to Beethoven’s Fifth Symphony (conducted by Herbert von Karajan).]:rolleyes: We didn't need dialogue. We had faces! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapaTango Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 Don’t let ‘im fool ya. PapaTango stays cuz o’ me! :):):):eek: [The four emojis are to be read in the rhythm and style of the opening chords to Beethoven’s Fifth Symphony (conducted by Herbert von Karajan).]:rolleyes: Don't run out and buy a hat three sizes larger, but yes--there is some truth in that... :p "I See Things..." The FotoFora Community Experience [Link] A new community for creative photographers. Come join us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul ron Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 As a casual user the site works fine for me. its been pretty good so far with me too. yeah ill get a few errors but it may be my stupid tablet n chromes updating nonsense causing problems. The more you say, the less people listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Vongries Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Mom used to say "Patience is a virtue." Lately I haven't managed to be all that virtuous. "This too, shall pass." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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