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Professional Mirrorless?


Using Mirrorless Semi-Professional. Yes or No  

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  1. 1. Using Mirrorless Semi-Professional. Yes or No

    • Yes - They're great!
      3
    • No - Don't do it!
      1


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Hello all!

Recently, my 60D ended up getting soaked, then turned on... So I am now looking at replacements. Outside of my job, I am more of an enthusiast than a professional, but I do freelance weddings and senior shoots when I can get them.

 

I've also convinced my boss to add money to our budget to purchase a camera for general use so that they have something decent if I were to leave and they couldn't use my stuff anymore.

 

That's led me to the Mirrorless Cameras like the M50. I like the idea of lightweight dslr and it seems user friendly enough for people who aren't familiar with the term "F-Stop", but it scares me to make a purchase or recommendation of something "new and exciting" that I haven't tried before.

 

So, my long winded question is this - Do people currently use them, or would they recommend them for these types of uses?

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Pros: Idiot friendly EVF, maybe better AF performance than the most basic Rebel in SLR mode?

Cons: Battery size, - Absent lens line?

Open question: What are "the job" &/ the company's photographic needs?

We are shooting products in a studio and host a charity coupled sports event each year + have a corporate fun event or at least holidays party. I tried doing the product shots with Fuji X-E1 + adapted glass and packed it up very(!) quickly. The EVF lagged & blackened out at sync speed behind a stopped down lens. I had the same issue when I used adapted flashes with Canon Powershot Pro 70 ages ago. So a big warning: Mirrorless and studio strobes might work or not. Outdoors for semi static subjects by daylight, they all should be fine. I have no clue how well they might perform during indoors events with flash. My obsolete early Fujis simply don't with their dim kit zooms.

Back to Canon: The dual pixel AF (in mirror up mode of my 5D IV) works pretty well, so if they implemented similar into their MILCs, you might be fine? - I can't really comment on dim zooms indoors; the prehistoric 35-105 I own seems to at least outperform my old Fujis AF speed wise in LV.

Since you gave no clues about your corporation's needs:

I usually suggest getting a prime for product shots. - Is there a matching one in the EOS M lens line?

Does Canon put out SOOC JPEGs meeting the corporate needs and taste? - If not, is there an abundance of media technicians to deal with RAW files?

 

Getting the latest and greatest isn't necessarily the brightest move (if you are dealing with RAWs anyhow). - An elderly DSLR might be cheaper and good enough.

For the products we are shooting at work 6MP would still be fine. If I had to suggest gear, it would be an old 5D & two Yongnuo lenses. Maybe some heritage zoom and a speedlite too, to happy snap at events.

To shoot stuff outdoors, I'd suggest a lower end camera with stabilized (kit)lens.

 

I'm no fan of DSLR bulk, but an old DSLR kit will be at hand, even if the boss is on vacation (Mine shoot their phones there).

 

Concerning your private plans: Mirrorless might be good enough by now, but is EOS M the smart choice for weddings? - I am not doing them but I occasionally covered events since the 80s. To me a "sanely fast" lens line is important, either to shoot with low light or to assist my AF in low light. Be it f2.8 zooms or f2(ish) primes. I guess adapting a 50/1.8(/1.4?) on the EOS M is an option for the long end. - But what to do on the wide one? Also: If low light is one of your challenges: Where and how will you get IS for the fast wide glass? - AFAIK there are just a few FF lenses. (The EF 35/2 & 85/1.4 IS were my reasons to pick Canon, besides their nicely priced 70-200, because I wasn't overly successful hand holding my conventional 35, 50, 90/2 ).

I am infected by the paranoid Backupmania of the wedding scene, counting cameras "2 are 1, one is none"... - So: How will you get backup together, when you jump into a new system? I suppose the used market will be pretty dry, especially when you are looking at the 1st good enough body they released there. OTOH: if your previous lenses are still alive, getting another SLR to use them will be a cheap basic backup.

From what I read dual pixel AF seems to be quite good. If I had to do weddings, I would like to have some eye detection AF, as offered by Olympus & Sony, combined with fast glass. From my admittedly limited experience with a wide open 70-200/2.8 it must be a desirable feature, compared to time consuming struggles with AF point selection.

 

Anyhow: Shooting people is more psychology than photography and has been done for decades and as soon as you are framing two of them shallowest imaginable DOF isn't very desirable.

Someday I'll cobble some tablet or old laptop screen on my 5D, to get the flippy screen portrait camera I want. I might also scoop up some current MILC when it 'll hit the budged market and until then I already have enough choices to take out.

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To receive targeted responses you need to supply more information.

 

As already mentioned:

> What's your job?

and

> What uses will the boss or other employees have for this new camera?

 

In regard to your gear and your extra-employment activities:

> what lenses do you have?

 

***

Generally -

 

It could easily be assumed that you have only a 60D, in this regard I would caution against taking on Weddings with only one camera.

 

Secondly, there are a few functionalities (for some examples - Menu System, Dial and Button allocations; Viewfinder, slight Shutter Lag) of the EOS M Series which are key reasons why I would choose an EOS DSLR as opposed to an EOS M Series as my main working cameras for Weddings.

 

Also there are limited EOS M Lenses. Certainly one can use the EOS-EF to EOS-M adapter (or third party variant), but EF and EF-S Lenses are typically larger and heavier than their EOS-M counterparts which brings up an issue of balance (weight distribution).

 

I have an EOS M5 and I use this in the role of a wonderful addition to and supplement of my EOS DSLR kit. It is a wonderful camera for carrying everywhere. I have a couple of special lenses for it and I thought long and hard about buying the M5 - or - getting involved in a Fuji mirrorless system.

 

The point is Fuji (and others) have a more extensive range of dedicated Glass for their Mirrorless Cameras, and whilst the Canon M Series has an appeal, I think it is an appeal for many like me who already have a reasonable investment in Canon Glass and require a light weight addition to their existing kit, rather than the EOS-M Series being a viable standalone kit (aka "system") for the more seriour Photographer(at this moment in time).

 

That stated, for your boss an EOS M50 and the kit lens might be all that is required for his work, and your work whilst you are employed there: but I doubt many Wedding Professionals would arrive with just that n their bag.

 

WW

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IME, ergonomics are of critical importance when shooting weddings... though of course I'm sure that depends on how you/your company shoots weddings... but speed and accuracy while changing modes/settings are things that either mean you GET the insanely cute shot of the moment the flower girl forgets what she's supposed to be doing, and runs up to hug the groom (her dad) while everyone is overcome w/ emotion over the moment... however... if you are fishing through menus, or having to do finger-twister to change the settings you are shooting with to dramatically capture that image, then you aren't shooting... and by the time you are, the hug has ended and everybody is back to business...

 

Just saying, unless it has a comprehensive set of physical controls, IMO, it's not suitable for wedding (or any potentially fast paced/need-speed-and-accuracy work) duties.

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Pros are definitely using Sony, Olympus/Panasonic, & Fuji mirrorless cameras, so many of them should be suited to your needs. Canon only has consumer grade mirrorless, with a limited lens line of mostly slow zoom lenses. The top of line "M" models are comparable with the more advanced D-Rebel DSLRs. If you really want to try a Canon mirrorless, then I would rent one for a week to see what it can or can't do well. You can also wait until Canon and Nikon deliver their long anticipated FF mirrorless, probably in 2019.
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Hello all!

Recently, my 60D ended up getting soaked, then turned on... So I am now looking at replacements. Outside of my job, I am more of an enthusiast than a professional, but I do freelance weddings and senior shoots when I can get them.

 

I've also convinced my boss to add money to our budget to purchase a camera for general use so that they have something decent if I were to leave and they couldn't use my stuff anymore.

 

That's led me to the Mirrorless Cameras like the M50. I like the idea of lightweight dslr and it seems user friendly enough for people who aren't familiar with the term "F-Stop", but it scares me to make a purchase or recommendation of something "new and exciting" that I haven't tried before.

 

So, my long winded question is this - Do people currently use them, or would they recommend them for these types of uses?

 

sure, I use my "semi professional' Canon mirrorless all the time

the pics always look better than fuji, sony, "semi professional"

 

........ maybe it's the old old lens

 

36936126425_0376b6036a_b.jpgUntitled by c w, on Flickr

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... but speed and accuracy while changing modes/settings are things that either mean you GET the insanely cute shot of the moment the flower girl forgets what she's supposed to be doing, and runs up to hug the groom (her dad) while everyone is overcome w/ emotion over the moment...

 

Sensational imagery.

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Rumour has it Canon may soon be releasing a full frame mirrorless. I think Sony has some great cameras out. The Sony A7III is a full frame mirrorless 24 MP camera at $2000, match this with a Metabones adapter for Canon lenses so you could use your Canon glass, not bad. But I would Google Sony A7III issues or problems and get educated before you spend $2000. There is the Sony A7RIII which has been tempting at $3200 but I would need a Metabones adapter with my collection of lenses and my Canon 5D MKIV produces such nice images, I find it hard to justify the expense. While a lot of folks jumped ship for the Sony, I am not so fast to do this. No need and I am going to wait to see what Canon does. But I do think Sony, Nikon and some other brands make really nice cameras.
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Cheers, Mark
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Rumour has it Canon may soon be releasing a full frame mirrorless. I think Sony has some great cameras out. The Sony A7III is a full frame mirrorless 24 MP camera at $2000, match this with a Metabones adapter for Canon lenses so you could use your Canon glass, not bad. But I would Google Sony A7III issues or problems and get educated before you spend $2000. There is the Sony A7RIII which has been tempting at $3200 but I would need a Metabones adapter with my collection of lenses and my Canon 5D MKIV produces such nice images, I find it hard to justify the expense. While a lot of folks jumped ship for the Sony, I am not so fast to do this. No need and I am going to wait to see what Canon does. But I do think Sony, Nikon and some other brands make really nice cameras.

 

The Metabones EF-to-E t-adapter MkV is $400 and works well with all my Canon L-series EF lenses, except my 500/f4L II, which is a battle at times, particularly for birds-in-flight. With my EF 14/f2.8L II, there's absolutely no feeling that it's not a native lens. Same goes for my 24-105mm and 70-200mm. I prefer the native Sony lenses because they enable eye-detection, where the EF lenses do in some cases and not in others. You won't notice a difference, except on the super-telephoto lenses, if you have any.

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The Metabones EF-to-E t-adapter MkV is $400 and works well with all my Canon L-series EF lenses, except my 500/f4L II, which is a battle at times, particularly for birds-in-flight. With my EF 14/f2.8L II, there's absolutely no feeling that it's not a native lens. Same goes for my 24-105mm and 70-200mm. I prefer the native Sony lenses because they enable eye-detection, where the EF lenses do in some cases and not in others. You won't notice a difference, except on the super-telephoto lenses, if you have any.

 

Dave, I have been tempted more than once. Maybe after the A7RIV comes out I can swing the A7RIII with Metabones and not feel guilty. Been looking at the A7III too, but I would regret not having the A7RIII's resolution. I am happy with my 5D MK IV and I already own that, it is costing me no more money. But don't be surprised if you see me posting on the Sony forum next year if prices drop and Canon does not come out with something that rocks the photography paradigm. lol. Is there a list of which lenses work with eye detect? I also have the Sigma 150-600mm C, wonder how the Sony autofocus works with the 150-600 for wildlife.

Cheers, Mark
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Dave, I have been tempted more than once. Maybe after the A7RIV comes out I can swing the A7RIII with Metabones and not feel guilty. Been looking at the A7III too, but I would regret not having the A7RIII's resolution. I am happy with my 5D MK IV and I already own that, it is costing me no more money. But don't be surprised if you see me posting on the Sony forum next year if prices drop and Canon does not come out with something that rocks the photography paradigm. lol. Is there a list of which lenses work with eye detect? I also have the Sigma 150-600mm C, wonder how the Sony autofocus works with the 150-600 for wildlife.

 

Mark, I'm not certain, but I'm pretty sure that all the G-Master lenses support eye-detection. I know that my FE 12-24 f/4 G also supports it.

 

So forgetting about fps and WYSWYG EVF, the main difference I saw between my 5D4 and my a7RIII is the dynamic range. The resolution in the dark details just jumps out at you. Compared to the 5DS-R the a7RIII has an even great DR advantage. If you don't shoot BIF, then face detection and eye detection could be major features.

 

Sigma has an EF-to-E adapter. I'm using the Metabones, but I'd be surprised if Sigma didn't make certain that their converter works with their lenses. I'm also wondering about an FE mount Sigma 500/f4 or 600/f4. Assuming a high IQ, I'd be very tempted by that.

 

Dave

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I was more curious about my Canon lenses and Tamron and Sigma. I know Sigma makes an adaptor, but I don't want to buy 2 adapters, a Metabones and a Sigma.

 

It was August of 2017 when I first tried a Sigma and a Metabones adapter with my a9/EF500mm combo. Initially, both failed (using the MkIV Metabones). Then I got the MkV Metabones and a July 2017 firmware update on the Metabones and that works well. I've been told, by people that I trust, the Sigma has come out with a firmware update for their adapter and it now works with the Canon 500 and 600mm.

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Metabones adapter with my a9/EF500mm combo

 

Have you run into the "PDAF striping" aka "Sony striping" issues with your Sony cameras that we have been hearing about? I hear it seems to be an issue with some lenses in certain lighting conditions on several of the new Sony cameras according to this article, someone has made a software fix for problematic shots. Hopefully rare enough of an event to not overburden workflow in post. It did spook me a bit. Especially since I do like using a kicker light from time to time and backlighting happens a lot if I am shooting an event with lights on 13-foot stands at various points in a room. I am wondering if this is also a possible issue using Canon lenses and Metabones adapter.

 

LINK to a good DP Review Article covering the subject.

Edited by Mark Keefer
Cheers, Mark
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Have you run into the "PDAF striping" aka "Sony striping" issues with your Sony cameras that we have been hearing about? I hear it seems to be an issue with some lenses in certain lighting conditions on several of the new Sony cameras according to this article, someone has made a software fix for problematic shots. Hopefully rare enough of an event to not overburden workflow in post. It did spook me a bit. Especially since I do like using a kicker light from time to time and backlighting happens a lot if I am shooting an event with lights on 13-foot stands at various points in a room. I am wondering if this is also a possible issue using Canon lenses and Metabones adapter.

 

LINK to a good DP Review Article covering the subject.

No Mark, I haven't seen it. Frankly, I had a hard time seeing it in that example. My lenses are the FE 12-24mm f/4 G, the FE 24-70mm f/2.8 GM and the FE 100-400mm f/4.5-5-6 GM OSS. It could be in an image, but I didn't notice it. For me, it's not a problem.

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No Mark, I haven't seen it. Frankly, I had a hard time seeing it in that example.

The article examples were a bit hard at first for me too till I figured it out, you had to click under the girl for the before and after fix, and if you click on the image of the little boy a couple time it opens to a full res huge image and you can see the lines easily around the boys head. It almost looks like a printer print with a clogged inkjet or something scratched the film during developing. I also noticed the resolution is amazing. Huge image.

Tiny snip from screenshot:1597831582_sonylines.thumb.JPG.c1f9334901e379ba09222939f3f5fee4.JPG

Edited by Mark Keefer
Cheers, Mark
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