What drives you round the twist?

Most of us reading in this section will have bought and sold cameras on the internet auction sites, and have read some dubious equipment descriptions. Some people will tell you anything to get a sale, and it amazes me how the have the nerve to do it, quite frankly. I always want to point out every little flaw in fear of getting flamed by the purchaser if it turns out to be not as described.

My favourites to avoid are:

‘I’m selling this for a friend’ (it’s broken)

‘No battery to test it’ (it’s broken)

‘I see no reason why it shouldn’t work’ (it’s broken), and

‘It worked the last time it was used’ (fill in for yourself!)

My own personal favourite though, is ‘ scratches on lens that won’t affect image quality’. Well they might not affect the image quality that you’d notice, but they will affect image quality. If one scratch won’t affect image quality, neither will one hundred.

So my question is, what drives you round the twist?

Pictures of a camera with a nice looking lens mounted, but when you look at the listing, it says lens not included. Lens caps left coyly on so you can't see what lens it is. Sellers saying that the item is on sale elsewhere.

As a seller, bidders who can't be bothered to pay, after I've spent hours carefully cleaning, testing, photographing and describing the item.

I never received any piece of photographic equipment I wasn't happy with but pay close attention to detail in word as well as picture.

Sometimes what is left out is as good an indicator as what is put in when it comes to EBay descriptions.

I also don't shop there looking for deals too good to be true.

Probably bought 10 film SLRs over the past 20 years and numerous lenses without issue.

You just have to understand eBayspeak. Some examples-

antique = no longer available at K-mart

patina = rust

rich patina = heavy rust with pits

Fuzzy photographs that look sharp until you click on them. Or, 10 photos, all from the same angle.

Sometimes though, items with honest descriptions can net you a good deal. I won a lowball bid on a 25mm f4 Zuiko Pen F mount lens that was described as 'sticky aperture blades'. I knew these lenses were fairly easy to work on so I took a chance. Sure enough, 10 minutes work to open the lens mount and reattach the spring that had come loose brought the lens back to nominal.

For me it's the ones that have an item up for auction and will happily take your money but don't actually have the item in stock or in their possession. Also the ones in 'like new' condition and only need a few hundred dollars of repairs to make the useable. Both have happened to me and that is why I don't buy photography equipment there any more.

Rick H.

I've had some great bargains off ebay, and also been stung a couple of times. I think it evens out. Like any other interaction with another human being - some are honest, good-humoured, a pleasure to know, etc. And others......

Caveat emptor, caveat emptor.

I've had pretty good success with eBay. In the past 2 years, I've bought a ton of great Nikon film cameras and manual lenses plus accessories.

I've only bought a few problem cameras/lenses, all but one of which I returned for a refund. The one I kept was a Nikkor 105 f/2.5 AI-S lens that had a spot of fungus in it. I found a tutorial on how to disassemble the lens to remove the fungus, which I did. I only had trouble getting one tiny screw in the upper barrel to seat properly. The only problem it caused is that the lens hood sometimes "catches" on the very slightly raised screw when I try to extend the hood.

Some more favorites:

-Minimal two word descriptions ("As Shown" or "Nice Camera", etc.)

-Descriptions that just repeat the item title.

-That "rare" Canon AE-1 for $300 :rolleyes:

-People who take photos of their gear sitting on rocks, bricks, etc. At least use a bath towel or something. :)

I check out the dealer's rating and look at what he/she is selling. If someone is selling mostly photo related items and has 98-100% positive feedback then you are good to go.

Do beware the term "mint". True mint means the camera has not been touched by human hands. No used camera should be rated higher than excellent IMO.

Just looked at a Pentax ME. ”Near Mint” but price was suspect.

Pictures looked good but were lacking in fine detail .

Suspected seals and mirror bumper might be an issue.

Asked seller.

Sure enough, "There are no seals or mirror bumper that is why I priced it low".

Couldn't be up front in the " near mint" description I guess.

Gotta do your homework,.,.

The most repetitive irritant for me is sellers of pre-1980 Nikon and Nikkormat film cameras who describe them with some variation of "fully operational", but when I receive them I discover their CdS "needle" exposure meters are totally dead and/or focusing screen is littered with sticky internal debris. I've been on eBay a long time, so I've learned how to parse listing-ese to calibrate my expectations, esp from sellers who obviously never held or used a "real" camera in their lives. Depending on low price or included lens, I'll take a chance regardless, and eat my mistakes. But the sellers who clearly specialize in cameras and price them close to actual (high) value: they're just being foolishly obnoxious when they don't specify a significant issue like "meter out". The inevitable return is inconvenient for both of us.

As a serious seller, why endanger your reputation or suffer the $ loss of an unnecessary return? The days when eBay was the Wild West and buyers routinely got royally scammed with no recourse are largely behind us: today, eBay will let you return an item up to six months after you buy it, for almost any reason, and if the seller doesn't cheerfully choke on the loss and refund you they'll force them to. Yeah, there's always the complete idiot buyer who still falls for obvious scam listings like "Brand new Canon 5DmkIV for only $500, seller location Nigeria" but they deserve what they get. Within North America, anyways, eBay holds all "legit" sellers by the throat, and squeezes quite roughly if a buyer complains. By "legit", I mean a seller with a fairly regular and recent selling presence, esp one who seems to specialize in one or two categories like photography gear. Such sellers have little incentive to lie or obfuscate, and a lot to lose if they do: yet some still do. Caveat emptor, yes, but if you get a lemon and the seller seems rude or resistant to a return, contact eBay customer service immediately.

...today, eBay will let you return an item up to six months after you buy it, for almost any reason, and if the seller doesn't cheerfully choke on the loss and refund you they'll force them to. Yeah, there's always the complete idiot buyer who still falls for obvious scam listings like "Brand new Canon 5DmkIV for only $500, seller location Nigeria" but they deserve what they get. Within North America, anyways, eBay holds all "legit" sellers by the throat, and squeezes quite roughly if a buyer complains. By "legit", I mean a seller with a fairly regular and recent selling presence, esp one who seems to specialize in one or two categories like photography gear. Such sellers have little incentive to lie or obfuscate, and a lot to lose if they do: yet some still do. Caveat emptor, yes, but if you get a lemon and the seller seems rude or resistant to a return, contact eBay customer service immediately.

I've been a buyer on eBay for over 13 years, and I've won at least 1154 auctions for which I have feedback. In all that time, I've had to make maybe 5-10 (?) returns. I've been careful whom I buy from, and I've only had to leave 1 bad feedback (the seller was, how shall I put it... clueless).

For camera equipment, I pass on the auction/Buy It Now if

1) there are no photos, or the photos aren't sharp

2) photos don't cover the item from every side

3) description doesn't specify what condition the items are in (if something isn't in the description, I'll ask seller about items, and move on if I don't get a very satisfactory answer)

4) seller has less than 99.0 positive feedback

5) seller isn't in the US (I'll sometimes waive this if the seller is in Japan or Britain - I've had good success with Japanese/British sellers)

I've been buying on eBay for over 20 years, so I rarely get cheated on a purchase. I also occasionally sell there, and that's where I get screwed, largely because of eBay's insane level of over-protection for scumbags and idiots. The things that make me want to chew nails?

• people who assume that when I say I don't have the right battery to test some camera, I'm lying and trying to cheat them
  
• people who think I can afford to eat the loss when they buy things "on a trial basis" without making any effort to determine if it's really what they want before they buy it (at least four times, but I've lost count)
   
  
• people who think Buy It Now is an invitation to low-ball, like offering 20% of the asking price (again, I've lost count)
   
  
• buyers who return different copies of the same model, in much worse condition than the one I sold them (twice, so far)
  
• buyers who attempt to scam a refund for a lens I've sold them by sending images, supposedly taken with that lens, that have been photoshopped to look horrible (once)
   
  
• eBay employees who assume I'm the scumbag in every scenario, just because I'm the seller, regardless of how outrageous the buyer's actions are (too many to count)
  

eBay is no longer a "buyer beware" environment. It's become a "seller beware" situation. That's why you see items listed with no descriptions; you can't be falsely accused of lying if you haven't said anything. Buyers are protected from everything, including scumbags and their own laziness/stupidity. Sellers are only protected from non-payers, because that impacts eBay, too.

I began selling on eBay twelve years ago as a way to quickly dispose of my buying mistakes or to sell off perfectly good systems I no longer used (photo gear and vintage stereo hifi components). So I've been on both sides of a transaction many times over, mostly good experiences but a few bad as well. The advice on how to shop carefully is sound practice I'd recommend to anyone, but no amount of screening can eliminate the risk caused by outright lying or incompetence or an honest mistake. For certain items you may have no choice but to roll the dice with unknown or questionable sellers because availability is limited (lately it seems the Japanese dealer network has swept up every single intact vintage camera and desirable lens in North America, leaving just the dregs behind, and the individual USA sellers who occasionally still have good examples tend to be problematic in one way or another). Every potential buyer must know their own tolerance for inconvenience and possible financial loss, of course, but one sometimes needs to expand that range beyond their comfort zone to lay hands on something they want.

My remarks about the stranglehold eBay now maintains on sellers should be interpreted in that context. There is always some buyer risk, but as long as you limit your shopping to sellers with a fairly constant, current selling history that risk is reduced considerably by eBay's ever-more- Draconian (against sellers) return policy. They've just changed the rules for the third time in as many years, tilting the field further in favor of unscrupulous or inconsiderate buyers. Of course this means far more typical honest buyers are covered as well, so have no fear: eBay will literally rip your money back out of the seller's pants pocket to refund you, including your return shipping costs. Sellers are aware of this, so even the ones who try to play dumb and obfuscate will usually offer a courteous refund the minute you ask for a return. If not, they risk pretty severe reprisal from eBay. Careful screening of listings per Vincent Peri's advice should vastly reduce the odds you'll need to return anything, but if it happens, it happens.

Unfortunately theres no real rhyme or reason to eBay listings from random individuals who sell one item per year. The "better the listing, the better the item" rule usually applies, unless it doesn't. I've picked up great deals on great bodies/lenses from ridiculously awful listings: one or two blurry iPhone pics and one-sentence descriptions. I've also been disappointed buying from very professional listings full of clear pics and detailed descriptions: even the most well-intentioned seller can overlook or miss a hidden defect. I'm more adventurous than most, and have been lucky in finding intelligent buyers who offered me decent prices on some rather big mistakes I made. Overall, I broke even, but if you don't have the patience for such prospecting and don't relish the idea of selling off or returning mistakes, stick to established vintage camera dealers like KEH.

To davecaz: amen, brother! A disturbing percentage of buyers could use a dose of the integrity they demand from sellers. I've NEVER returned anything unless it was grossly defective but priced at (and described as) perfect. If the item just doesn't suit me, or has a minor defect that a seller could credibly not pre-screen, I chalk it up to experience and have it repaired (or just resell it myself).

eBay is no longer a "buyer beware" environment. It's become a "seller beware" situation.

I've done a lot of camera equipment purchasing and selling on ebay (and a lot more non-camera-related purchasing) but after I got scammed once about a decade ago when ebay was deeply in the "buyer beware" era and offered ZERO help in resolving the issue I've by now almost completely abandoned ebay (last major purchase or sale about 4 years ago). Nowadays, as "seller beware" dominates, I am not going to list anything for sale anymore even though I always described items I offered for sale as good as I could and have a flawless feedback record on ebay. I need to avoid the scenario where someone uses the camera I am selling for his vacation trip and then returns it to me under that ridiculous "no questions asked" 6-month return period (or, as already mentioned, returns a different item altogether). I also don't want to have to wait 6 months before I know I actually sold something. I rather trade-in at my local store even though I imagine I could make some more money selling on ebay (but it only takes one bad incident to turn that into a negative balance); not even sure I have lost as much on all my trade-ins as I lost on that one time I paid good money on ebay to receive nothing in return.

The things that make me want to chew nails?

Add not accepting paypal as payment to that list - definitely a red flag for me as I will never again use anything but.

Add not accepting paypal as payment to that list - definitely a red flag for me as I will never again use anything but.

I could be wrong, but I don't think that's even possible, these days. I'm pretty sure sellers MUST accept PayPal, now. After all, that's another revenue stream for eBay, since they own PayPal.

By the way, I should have mentioned that the buyer who tried to scam me into thinking there was something wrong with the very nice lens I sold him (for ~20% of its original selling price), almost got me. If I were just some yutz buying stuff at yard sales and posting it on eBay, with no interest in or knowledge of the gear I sell, he probably would have succeeded. But, I'd already tested out that lens and, while it wasn't better than what I already had, I knew it was a perfectly fine performer. With me, he didn't get away with it. I proved to eBay that he was scamming us, and managed to win that battle.

According to eBay's Accepted Payments Policy: "In most categories, sellers have to accept PayPal, credit cards or debit card processed through the seller's internet merchant account, or both."

eBay spun off PayPal as a separate company in 2015, though they have agreed to continue to accept PayPal payments until July, 2023.

And a few more favorites:

-Sellers who charge $15 shipping for an item that could be sent in a bubble envelope for $3. :mad:

-"It used to work fine, but I have no way of knowing if it still works or not" o_O

-Buyers who ask me if my item is compatible with their gear, AFTER they buy the item. Or who want me to cancel a sale without reason.

-Sellers who "can't find" the item, then re-list it at a higher price. :mad: or who refund the purchase without explanation.