I know that they say it's difficult to produce Kodachrome

After a previous discussion on this, I asked one of the usual chemical supply companies about these.

 

I believe one is a standard catalog chemical, and already somewhat expensive.

 

(Usually reagent grade, unless otherwise specified. Photographic grade is about the lowest,

usually lower than technical grade. It won't be easy to find someone to make photographic

grade couplers.)

 

They were going to quote me for the other two, but never did.

 

Might be in the $100/gram range, though.

I just did a search at the "big three" in the US(Sigma, VWR, Fisher) and couldn't find any of them as stock items.

It might be possible to dig them up from some specialty suppliers, but a lot of them partner with VWR or one of the other suppliers.

I just did a search at the "big three" in the US(Sigma, VWR, Fisher) and couldn't find any of them as stock items.

 

It might be possible to dig them up from some specialty suppliers, but a lot of them partner with VWR or one of the other suppliers.

I believe it was Alfa that I tried.

I just did a search at the "big three" in the US(Sigma, VWR, Fisher) and couldn't find any of them as stock items.

 

It might be possible to dig them up from some specialty suppliers, but a lot of them partner with VWR or one of the other suppliers.

I doubt that you would have any luck. My guess is that each dye was a proprietary formulation and not ever utilized for any product outside of KChrome. Each would have to be jobbed and manufactured--Kodak would have done this in-house or jobbed out as an industrial process. I suspect that one could contract out small batches to a production house as lab synthesis--but I fear that $100 a gram would be rather optimistic...

Kodachrome is gone, and will never return in any iteration. I have one roll, and one roll of Panatomic-X. Neither will ever be exposed. Perhaps I should donate them to a museum in my will... :cool:

I believe it was Alfa that I tried.

Interesting-I'll go directly to them when I get a chance, but we usually get Alfa stuff through VWR...

I'll ask our VWR rep the next time she comes by(I haven't seen her in a few weeks, so she's due) but I THINK VWR owns Alfa.

Another reason it's tough to do, is that it is really not nice in terms of environmental impact of the chemicals used.

As told above (thanks!), there were some companies like 3M that did make comparable films, and I think (but do not know for sure) that the Soviet Tso-25 may have been another Kodachrome-like process. Faster Tso films were C41 equivalent

Another reason it's tough to do, is that it is really not nice in terms of environmental impact of the chemicals used.

 

As told above (thanks!), there were some companies like 3M that did make comparable films, and I think (but do not know for sure) that the Soviet Tso-25 may have been another Kodachrome-like process. Faster Tso films were C41 equivalent

Tso-25 image from the internet

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The environmentally friendly / unfriendly characteristics of the Kodachrome process is on a par with the other color film types. Actually the effluents from all photo processes are reasonably benign but, municipalities don’t appreciate photo lab effluent. The reasons are likely different than you think. Photo effluent has a high BOD (biological oxygen demand). Effluent from all sources enters a sewer treatment plant to be rendered harmless. Aeration (spraying of bubbling) subjects the stuff oxygen. This is the foremost way they treat sewage. In summer, water temperatures are elevated and warm water is lower in oxygen content. Summer taxes all such systems, they don’t like stuff with a high BOD. Food processing plants, human waste, are all sources of high BOD.

All sewer plants discharge to a stream or river, etc. Before release, it must be germ free. Chlorine is added to the water as a disinfectant. Spent fixer causes chlorine to effervesce out of solution. Thus if a photo lab discharge is present, the cost to treat is elevated.

Some forms of silver is toxic, municipalities don’t want silver because they sell their sludge for landfill and fertilizer. Silver in the sludge reduces its marketability. Photo labs discharge silver but not the toxic variety. This is because the silver is intermixed with fixer and this always complexes to inert silver sulfide. The problem is, municipalities will not differentiate, to them silver is silver.

Kodachrome photofinishers recover and reuse the color couplers; they are so expensive this is a necessity. Photofinisher recover silver, this is a valuable resource, it a gift, it comes from the film. Color film goes home minus the silver.

I was a registered environmental engineer state of California specialty photo lab effluent and pre-treatment.

Great news

Kodak Kodachrome Returns In Both 35mm and 120 Emulsions

UNFORTUNATELY IT'S FROM THE FIRST OF APRIL

The environmentally friendly / unfriendly characteristics of the Kodachrome process is on a par with the other color film types. Actually the effluents from all photo processes are reasonably benign but, municipalities don’t appreciate photo lab effluent. The reasons are likely different than you think. Photo effluent has a high BOD (biological oxygen demand). Effluent from all sources enters a sewer treatment plant to be rendered harmless. Aeration (spraying of bubbling) subjects the stuff oxygen. This is the foremost way they treat sewage. In summer, water temperatures are elevated and warm water is lower in oxygen content. Summer taxes all such systems, they don’t like stuff with a high BOD. Food processing plants, human waste, are all sources of high BOD.

 

(snip)

I believe the rule here, at least for home use, is that you are supposed to mix the developer and fixer before going down the drain.

This reduces some of the effect, I believe including BOD.

The reasons are likely different than you think. Photo effluent has a high BOD (biological oxygen demand). Effluent from all sources enters a sewer treatment plant to be rendered harmless. Aeration (spraying of bubbling) subjects the stuff oxygen. This is the foremost way they treat sewage. In summer, water temperatures are elevated and warm water is lower in oxygen content. Summer taxes all such systems, they don’t like stuff with a high BOD. Food processing plants, human waste, are all sources of high BOD.

Interesting.

Thanks to an analytical chemistry professor(and still a good personal friend) in college who was on the town water board, I spent a fair bit of time in upper level classes studying both water and sewage treatment. My college's main sewage treatment plant was right across the road from the TMMK Toyota plant(I think one of the largest automobile plants in America, and I know is Toyota's largest in the world). About 2/3 of the volume the plant handled was industrial sewage that was quite literally piped under the road and right to the plant, while the remaining 1/3 was standard municipal sewage.

In any case, the treatment there for municipal waste-and making the assumption that it applied to plants at least all over the US-was primarily biological. Specifically, they used bacteria to break down the organic waste, and then of course any remaining solids were removed and additional treatments resembling a standard water treatment plant were done. I do know that they had massive aeration towers(I always joked about them being missile silos) to provide plenty of oxygen to the bacteria.

In any case, without really researching it I'd jumped to the conclusion that both soluble silver compounds and elemental silver were bad in the waste stream due to their anti-bacterial properties. After all, silver-based disinfectants have been around for ages and are still used in some contexts. I had a bad burn(3rd degree a little larger than a silver dollar, and a pretty good area of 2nd degree around it) many years ago, and was prescribed a silver sulfadiazene cream to treat it.

In any case, thank you-as always-for your informative post.

I believe the rule here, at least for home use, is that you are supposed to mix the developer and fixer before going down the drain.

 

This reduces some of the effect, I believe including BOD.

BOD is not reduced by mixing the effluents together. Developers have an affinity for oxygen. This is COD (chemical oxygen demand).

Interesting.

 

Thanks to an analytical chemistry professor(and still a good personal friend) in college who was on the town water board, I spent a fair bit of time in upper level classes studying both water and sewage treatment. My college's main sewage treatment plant was right across the road from the TMMK Toyota plant(I think one of the largest automobile plants in America, and I know is Toyota's largest in the world). About 2/3 of the volume the plant handled was industrial sewage that was quite literally piped under the road and right to the plant, while the remaining 1/3 was standard municipal sewage.

 

In any case, the treatment there for municipal waste-and making the assumption that it applied to plants at least all over the US-was primarily biological. Specifically, they used bacteria to break down the organic waste, and then of course any remaining solids were removed and additional treatments resembling a standard water treatment plant were done. I do know that they had massive aeration towers(I always joked about them being missile silos) to provide plenty of oxygen to the bacteria.

 

In any case, without really researching it I'd jumped to the conclusion that both soluble silver compounds and elemental silver were bad in the waste stream due to their anti-bacterial properties. After all, silver-based disinfectants have been around for ages and are still used in some contexts. I had a bad burn(3rd degree a little larger than a silver dollar, and a pretty good area of 2nd degree around it) many years ago, and was prescribed a silver sulfadiazene cream to treat it.

 

In any case, thank you-as always-for your informative post.

The entire sewer treatment plant is a biomass. Oxygen, from the air is needed by the microbes. Some silver compounds are toxic. Photo silver discharge is toxic for a few minutes. After this short time span, the silver complexes with sulfur and forms one of the most inert compounds, silver sulfide.