Ready to take the plunge: Tri-X and diafine

Hi all,

 

It's time to start developing my own black and white negatives. Two of my

younger friends, whom I have taught a lot on the subject of photography, have

started doing it as well. So far so good.

 

I've been reading a lot on these forums and I am leaning towards Tri-X and

Diafine. Diafine seems to be a sort of 'silver bullet' when it comes to

developers and the combination with Tri-X seems to be just what I want.

 

I do a lot of low light high contrast work (concerts etc.), where B/W is

unsurpassed. Of the fast B/W films I have tried, I like Tri-X the best. The

modest speed increase claimed with diafine, as well as the (again claimed)

preservation of shadow and highlight detail seem perfect.

 

I have the distinct impression that after some attempts I have developed (pun

intended) my own strong opinions but know it's just guessing what woukld work

best for me.

 

Suggestions are welcome.

Try it I think you will like it.

 

Larry

I've shot several shows using Tri-X and either XTOL or Diafine. The Diafine negs were

certainly less hassle to develop. Also try out TMZ for a different look - I like the grain.

Tri-X and Diafine make for a good match under the conditions you describe. I suggest rating the film at around EI 1000 to 1250 for high contrast lighting conditions. The more exposure you can get, the better off you'll be under those conditions. It's true that Diafine is good at suppressing blown highlights to a greater degree than push processing with a more conventional developer. It's probably the best you can do with this film at that speed, but it's far from as good as you can get with Tri-X. Shoot some Tri-X at box speed under more average lighting conditions and develop it normally in D-76 or XTOL. See what that film can really do.

Personaly I don't think that Diafine pushes a film but develops it to it's true ISO and that is one of the reasons it does not blow away the highlights. I have used a lot of differant films in Diafine and a 1 or less stop increase in box speed is more normal in fact Efke 100 Foma 100 and Gekko 100 are all true 100 films in Diafine. Era 100 and Lucky get only an increase of maybe 1/2- 2/3 stop.

So many of these threads are inactive...but I thought I might latch on to this one. Anyone feel free to respond. I am getting back into the hobby, shooting mostly 135 and some 120. For the past two months I have been using some Tmax 400 and Tri-X 400. I tend to shoot at box speed. I have been developing with D76 or ID11, ( 1+1 usually) and tend to get too much grain when I do portrait type enlargements to 8 x 10. I was thinking of trying Diafine, but I see so many references to using it only as a pusher type developer, in which case, isn't that increasing the grain anyway? Should I try it at box speed? Or should I try x-tol? Thanks.

You can not control the density in Diafine. The only parameter you can adapt is the iso rate (E.I.). Diafine 2-bath will lower the total contrast like any 2-bath developer and indeed it is a speed enhancing type developer. iso 800-1250 will give you overall the best result with Tri-X 400. Any speed enhancing developer will create more grain but the question is do YOU like the result in the film format which you are using?

 

Fine grain developers: Perceptol, Microdol-X however you will have speed loss so you have to expose on E.i. 200 with Tri-X 400. Xtol will give you box speed with relative fine grain. However the 5 ltr. stock is a lot and you can not keep Xtol very long in a storage.

Ever tried any staining type (=pyro) developer: Pyrocat-HDC. Fine grain, box speed and when dissolved in Glycol a long storage time.

You can not control the density in Diafine. The only parameter you can adapt is the iso rate (E.I.). Diafine 2-bath will lower the total contrast like any 2-bath developer and indeed it is a speed enhancing type developer. iso 800-1250 will give you overall the best result with Tri-X 400. Any speed enhancing developer will create more grain but the question is do YOU like the result in the film format which you are using?

 

Fine grain developers: Perceptol, Microdol-X however you will have speed loss so you have to expose on E.i. 200 with Tri-X 400. Xtol will give you box speed with relative fine grain. However the 5 ltr. stock is a lot and you can not keep Xtol very long in a storage.

Ever tried any staining type (=pyro) developer: Pyrocat-HDC. Fine grain, box speed and when dissolved in Glycol a long storage time.

So it sounds like give and take. I might do better using d76 undiluted to get smaller grain without losing contrast or speed. Just trying to have some fun... And get consistent results. Thanks.

The photographic universe considers Tri-X and D-76 a legendary combination. However, I've never really cared for the combo and found it rather grainy and sooty when it comes to middle to highlight transitions and don't like it for portraiture. One of the utter few strengths of TMAX films is that shoulder transition.

 

Xtol tames Tri-X grain a bit, the tonality is different. Flatter mids as I recall. Worth a shot though.

 

My ultimate favorite developer with Tri-X though became Microdol-X. I found I could push Tri-X to EI 640-800 in Microdol-X and match if not better the grain in D76 1:1 while still keeping a nice highlight roll off. I know a lot of old time press shooters that wouldn't touch D-76 and kept Microdol as their standard.

 

The pyro developers will obviously tame grain. Then there's XP2 on the C41 side, but it's a totally different tone structure than conventional B&W.

Take a look at the density versus exposure charts. You see that Tri-X rounds off or compresses for higher exposures. That means that highlights will not have much tonal separation. You either have to reduce exposure or underdevelop for properly exposed negatives to get good separation in highlights. Look to TMax and Xtol for great separation in the highlights. Watch old Black and White movies to see what is possible with B/W film. Sparkling highlights and great shadow detail. Movie sets controlled the exposure and shadow detail with lighting and kept from blowing highlights with development.

OrWo Filmotec N74+ (E.I. 400) in Pyrocat-HDC 1+1+100.

 

 

Kiev-4AM with Jupiter-12 F/2,8-35mm. N74+ is a cine film like Kodak 5222 Double-X. Pretty cheap in Europe for the last years (Eur. 120 122m/400ft = Eur. 30 30,5m/100ft to make a standard roll).

So, I was looking for some pyro, but it seems to come in so many flavors. Really only available from Photographers Formulary. Any suggestions? HDC, huh?

Pyrocat-HDC is an open source formulae from Sandy King. Also easy to make in Glycol. In Europe available under Svema label. The C stands for vit. C Ascorbic Acid additional.

wow i wonder if the op ever took the plunge 11 years ago?