rashedahmed Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 I was thinking it last few days. Digital photography made a lot of photographers who might never thought of being one. Now competition is fears. So, working cheaper is the new trend now. Though surviving in a long run will be a challenge. The rich clients become more benifited from digital as they can buy cheaper services. In short, made commercial photographers poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaellinder Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 Digital photography made a lot of photographers who might never thought of being one Rashad, I don't shoot for money. There is a variety of reasons why I do shoot, besides being a hobbyist. My first camera, given to me when I was about 10, was an Ansco, a rather primitive film camera. I purchased my first SLR when I was 18 - an Agfaflex. Approximately 5 years later, because its shutter needed repair and there were no parts available, I bought a Canon AE1, which I still own. I acquired my first digital camera, a Lumix "bridge" camera with a Leica lens, in 2003, when I was 56. My first DSLR was bought in 2005, a Canon T1i, and I got my current camera, a Canon 60D, approximately 4 years ago. I apologize if this seems wordy, but I felt I needed to demonstrate that I have as much experience shooting film as shooting digital, perhaps more so. Your conclusion, that "[Digital] made commercial photographers poor" simply doesn't follow. Some commercial photographers who still shoot film have become poorer because there are better film photographers. Others have become poorer because of competition in general. That's how a free market operates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Keefer Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 There may be more competition and more newbies working cheap looking to break into the game. Face it, pro photographers no longer have the market cornered, what does it take to start up? A camera, a lens or two or three, some lighting gear even if just a speedlight, a computer with editing software and the ability to take a photo and some reasonable skill. Joe the plumber has no clue the difference between a $9000 camera and lens from a $595 camera and lens. They look at the price, the guy shooting weekends as a side gig shooting for $400 or $50/hour vs the Wedding Pro who is charging $2,000 to $30,000. Sure photographers know, but consumers not so much. An educated consumer who can afford a pro will get a pro. There are always going to be those who can not afford a pro and who will never pay more than $500 for a photographer. And there will always be those who will look for quality. and will pay for it. Maybe some more work in explaining this in Bride magazines. But you will always have those looking for a deal on the cheap. They won't really know what they missed, and they may just have the cheap photographer is good enough approach. There are those out there that want the best and are willing to pay for it. As far as working cheaper, there is a point of diminishing returns. Someone who is willing to work for an extremely low wage is not going to be able to survive and will move on to something more profitable for their time and effort. Few of those will ever stay long enough to hone their art to be truly talented and last. So the Professional needs to shine in quality of the product and the service and educate the consumer as to why you are worth your price. The successful pro needs to really sell themselves. It takes work and is a full-time job to become successful. It may take more than just a pretty website to create momentum. Competition from people working cheap has become the norm in the times we live in, it happens with painters, drywall guys, car mechanics, electricians, plumbers, handymen, barbers, roofers, Taxi drivers... If you want a guaranteed cornered market, become a doctor or lawyer where people actually have to go to school and get a license. To make it as a pro photographer, you are going to have to hustle and make your mark. Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_Lookingbill Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 Steve Soderbergh just shot an entire Hollywood movie, "Unsane", on an iPhone 7. Talk about low budget. Excellent movie though. That's where the money's at now IMO. Forget making a living shooting still photography unless you like shooting weddings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanford Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 No, its the stock photo agencies that have lowered the standards of quality and creativity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norma Desmond Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 Digital photography made a lot of photographers who might never thought of being one. A medium does not make a photographer. It takes talent, creativity, an eye, and some business sense if you're going commercial. Some digital photographers who may call themselves photographers are no more photographers than were Mom and Pop when they took out their Instamatics and shot pics of the kids at Disneyland. "I am a photographer" doesn't make someone a photographer. Neither does a digital or, for that matter a film, camera. 2 We didn't need dialogue. We had faces! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leo_papandreou1 Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 Other people's family pictures are the best street photography. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeBu Lamar Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 I have no data nor proof to prove it either way but I don't think digital photography made the commercial photographers poor. However if it's the truth then it's actually a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochen_S Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 working cheaper is the new trend now. Though surviving in a long run will be a challenge. No, it isn't "new" at all. I was old enough to look at the struggling professional scene in the late 80s and met a fair share of stranded elsewhere ex wannabe pro photographers. So basicallly: "Digital" does and did not matter. Sure, it was more expensive to make mistakes AKA "learn" on film. But how does that matter for the self exploiting wannabe? In doubt you overshot jobs paying one roll with 2 additional rolls, trying to build your reputation and getting a foot into some door. Wannabe photo journalists outstarving each other seemed common in my hometown. Even photographer journeymen seeking employment usually made no fortunes since 80% of them were pushed into different jobs after their apprenticeship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJG Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Working pros never had it easy, but digital has made it harder for some. A lot of professional work that used to exist for photographers who just had a modicum of skill and equipment can now be done by lots of people with a DSLR and a kit lens since the screen on the camera tells the user immediately if they got something useable. What economists call "barriers to entry" are much lower than they were in the days of slow film and much more expensive (relatively) film cameras, so it isn't surprising that clients expect lower prices or that someone already working for them can do photography also. It is ironic that on the one hand demand for images has never been higher, but on the other, the number of images available for cheap prices or free has never been greater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conrad_hoffman Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Things were way different when I set off to RIT in the early '70s. Today an image usually has a short shelf life and the value of images in general is next to nothing. True quality isn't highly valued, save for a few areas. Back in my first job in product development, we'd hire a pro for a day or more to set up and do product shots for our ads and brochures. It would cost $1-2 k for each shoot. Today some quick dSLR or even phone shots get the job done and everybody's happy. Heck, they bitch if it takes more than an hour to do it. Some months ago I needed a pro for some product shots that needed a hand model and more sophisticated lighting. Couldn't even find somebody local to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denny_rane Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Go to any local college and look at what first year students are producing, for product placement, In Color.! Not only has it devalued "photography" it has devalued "printing". ALL things are like that. Turn the clock back to 1960, any idea how hard it was to drive a big diesel truck...paint a house...get 8k miles out of an oil change...watch a movie at home...if you were a pilot for Pan-Am, TWA (who..???) United or others, you were almost a F'ing Idol, like an astronaut. Pilots are a dime a dozen now. etc etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norma Desmond Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Turn the clock back to 1960 Why should I when I can be perfectly happy and productive living in the present? All it requires is living in the present and not being overwhelmed and stifled by nostalgia. I’m out there shooting today, not yesterday. 1 We didn't need dialogue. We had faces! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moving On Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Every picture you have is from the past. Every posting of a picture is an exercise in nostalgia...... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denny_rane Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Why should I when I can be perfectly happy and productive living in the present? All it requires is living in the present and not being overwhelmed and stifled by nostalgia. I’m out there shooting today, not yesterday. Because those that do not study history are doomed to.......never mind. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norma Desmond Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Because those that do not study history Oh please. You didn't just suggest studying history. You suggested that turning the clock back would teach us how photography has been devalued, which is bunk. We didn't need dialogue. We had faces! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denny_rane Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Sweet Dreams fred. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wouter Willemse Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 I guess what the OP describes is not so much attributed to digital, but rather to a longer and older process of photography becoming much more a mass product. As it happens, digital accelerated that process further, but the writing was already on the wall before that: cheap, easy-to-use SLRs in the second half of the 80s gave a lot more people access to good quality equipment that was roughly as capable as what many pros were shooting, at a very accessible price. Adding automatic and semi-automatic modes, so that understanding of exposure was no longer strictly necessary, and adding AF which further reduced the need for the user to understand what (s)he is doing..... This process already started well before digital became affordable. Internet made the quantity of images shot just more visible, and further accelerated this popularisation of photography. Now, to suggest that any of this automatically means that whatever is being done today is of lesser value is a rather short-sighted opinion. The fact that capturing an image has become easier over time doesn't mean the skills of the person holding such camera no longer counts for anything. And there is not a single argument why today there wouldn't be talented, skilled photographers left. The fact that the overall volumes of photos being made is bigger today doesn't mean in that larger pool, there are no quality works left - quite the opposite: in a bigger pond, there is at least as much or more fish. It may require a bit more effort to catch that fish, but it's still worth the effort. In fact, nowadays more people get exposed to photography, which potentially gives a bigger likelihood for the talented to give it a try. There is a big positive there, since it's more likely that talent is discovered. Suggestions that images today are of lesser value or lesser quality: opinions. Not facts. The World Press Photos still show very relevant work, just like before. There are still very talented and skilled portrait photographers, wedding photographers etc. Why would their images have less value? Sure, if you prefer prints, Instagram is a big mental step to overcome in your mind. That doesn't mean there is no good work available there, it just means you've not yet adapted to where the rest of world has been moving. Which might be fine (do whatever you like), but the idea that in the past things were hence better is again just an opinion, and far from fact. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Ingold Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 The OP seems to think digital capture makes everyone an expert. That might work for events, but the skill is in the setup and execution, not the medium. I'm not a commercial photographer, but I appreciate the attention to detail in photography of models and products. It is far easier to achieve consistency of color and exposure with digital, with far less processing before the hard work of finishing begins. The new "normal" seems to be medium format with 100 MP, which yields 4x the practical resolution of MF film and is not limited to ISO 400 for high quality results. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leo_papandreou1 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Of course photographers are making less money nowadays. But they're getting more likes! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDMvW Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 to think digital capture makes everyone an expert Perhaps, it's not so much that the photographers think that, though many do, as it is that non-photogrsphers tend to think that. For that reason, they're often unwilling to pay for expertise. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henkelphoto Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 In my opinion, what's made it difficult for the commercial photographer is not the digital cameras, but the Internet. People don't get many prints made anymore and that's where the commercial photographer made his "gravy" money. Now, if you want to show off the grandchildren to your friends, you post a 400x600 dpi photo on the internet and everything's good. No more 16x20 prints at $200 each. And the same goes for the business photographer. Most companies now post their annual reports on their websites. Again, they just want small photos. I recently turned down a job that involved 19 business portraits. I quoted them a price that included me bringing in my lighting equipment to their business, setting up a backdrop, doing the photos and then cleaning up everyone's faces in the computer (using Portrait Pro) and then delivering the photos to them on a cd and also on Dropbox. I quoted $100 each. They said no. I said, okay, I'll do it for $75 each. They still said no. When I asked them what they were willing to pay, they said $25 each. I said no. They ended up using someone's cousin or nephew or something, basically a guy with a camera. Does the difference show in their report? Probably not at a 175x250 dpi size. I don't do weddings so I don't know if the same thing is happening, but I suspect it is. So in a sense, the digital age is the cause of the slow death of commercial photography (again my opinion), but mostly due to the Internet, not the cameras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikheilrokva Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Every person who can buy an entry-level DSLR with kit lens considers themselves a photographer. Every person who can buy a second lens thinks they're professionals. Not to mention they all shoot in "green mode". In the end, it creates a bit of a hubris. I know, I've been there until I realized that simply clicking a button won't improve my skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denny_rane Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Some good points about "The Internet". If you sell canoes, there are Hundreds and Hundreds of "Stock Photos" available.....for CHEAP. You do not need to hire a photographer to shoot a model, loading one of your canoes, into a truck. For a company website.?.....nobody will notice or care if a picture was taken with a cell phone. The "Music Business" has endured similar problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomspielman Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 (edited) I think digital photography has changed the list of skills required for somebody to make a living as a photographer. And I think it's harder to make a living as a photographer than it was 20 years ago. However, I doubt it will disappear as a profession. Further, the advent of digital photography has made some things possible and practical that weren't before and that has led to new ways to monetize images. For example, whether it's triathlons, my daughter's gymnastic meets, an amusement park, a ski resort, a tourist excursion, or some guy on a beach with a pair of toucans and a camera, there are people taking pictures of you that they're hoping you'll buy. This probably happened in the days of film to a limited extent but not like it is today. I was on vacation in Punta Cana last week and on one tour in particular (Snuba), it seemed like they were more interested in having us spend $50 on a photo CD of us underwater than anything else. It probably wasn't like that in the film age. So these are new opportunities for photographers. Last year, I ran into a guy with a camera standing in the middle of ski run in Utah (figuratively). He took pictures of people going by as well as some posed shots. I doubt he made much of a living at it, but maybe as side gig or a supplement to some other work it's OK. Or maybe all he got out of it was a season pass. I don't think what he did required much in the way of special skills as a photographer. Edited April 19, 2018 by tomspielman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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