Speed light power

I have a couple questions what is the most powerful Speedlight made today who makes it what's the model number?

 

Is the Nikon SB 800 a more powerful Flash than the sb-80dx?.

 

My point is most of the Nikon flashes sb26 sb28 sb700 they all seem to have basically the same power the same guide number.

 

Have flashes not improve that much in 10 years. It looks like your modern Speedlight has hit a ceiling I don't see anything higher than a 60 guide number and that's probably not even a legit real guide number it just seems like modern flashes of kind of just hit the ceiling now there's just more gimmicks to them than actually more power.

 

I have a pair of Nikon sb-80dx S I'm I'm pretty happy with them I'm wondering if there's something that's going to be quite a bit stronger than those??

Metz 50-plenty? It will be weaker than the old 60 flashgun with separate power pack or it's Braun counterpart, since it's guide number is most likely defined for the narrowest beam setting and the old guns had reflectors for 35mm lenses.

If you want more: Look for portable monolights or systems. Some of those seem to integrate TTL measuring.

Sorry, I don't understand a contemporary need for extremely strong speedlites. Agfapan 25 is dead, most DSLRs start at ISO 200 and recent ones probably go significantly higher than film quite gracefully. And maybe AF improved so we can shoot 1 f-stop wider too?

In doubt it might make more sense to double or quadruple the speedlites in your modifier of choice and be it just to run them at less than full power. - Who has the patience to wait to several seconds of recharging time while there is neither a holder to flip nor a shutter to cock?

I'm shooting an old film camera not shooting a modern DSLR.

 

I'm shooting a Westcott rapid box octabox 26in I can't double up the speedlights in it only takes one Speedlight. I'm really just curious what the strongest speedlights available are today I know a lot of them have bogus guide numbers on them.

 

My point is why are you going to spend $600 on a Nikon SB 910 versus an old SB 800 when guide numbers are basically the same.

 

It seems like i-ttl and all of this stuff is come a long ways but the actual power of the Flash's has not changed much in a long time.

I think you're right--small battery powered units that run on 4 AA batteries seem to have maxed out. I know when I upgraded from ancient Vivitar 285 HV flashes to Pentax 540FGZ II units I didn't get more power, I got more automatic conveniences and a slightly smaller size and weatherproofing. If you don't care about TTL, cheaper flashes will be just as powerful. If you're shooting film and need more power, AC powered monolights are definitely the way to go. They also recycle a lot faster than AA powered units. Paul C. Buff Alien Bees aren't horribly expensive and are reasonably well made with lots of modifiers available.

Yes they're all within a few points of each other basically on guide number ratings I don't see a bigI don't see a big difference going back 10 years.

 

TTL has advanced pretty good but other than that there's not a lot of difference.

 

I'm thinking of going with mono lights instead of speedlights.

 

I could buy some Nikon SB 26 s and I can buy the latest Nikon and there's not a lot of difference the latest the new Nikon for $600 I can pick up an SB 26 for 60 bucks and there's not a terrible lot of difference.

I actually found the answer to all my problems with flashes. The flashpoint evolv 200. Looks just like a Speedlight it's a little bit bigger three times as powerful 299 bucks can't beat it.

 

Gets very very good reviews seem like a very solid solution. It's a 200 watt second flash basically three times as strong as a standard Speedlight. It will still fit in softboxes where you can slide of normal Speedlight in this will still fit inside of it seems like a fantastic option ll,ov to hear from anybody to see using it.

It's a 200 watt second flash basically three times as strong as a standard Speedlight

Are you sure? - Sounds "a bit optimistic" to me. - I can probably double check next Tuesday. (200Ws vs.Yongnuo.) 200Ws is the smallest we have at work and vanishes i.e. "serves as fill" inside a softbox at ISO 160 & f16

I actually found the answer to all my problems with flashes. . . It's a 200 watt second flash basically three times as strong as a standard Speedlight. . . .

 

I am not suggetsting that the unit that you have found is not more powerful, nor a good unit nor is not suitable to your purposes: but, "speedlites" are typically rated by Guide Numbers and Guide Numbers are neither convertible nor equaltable to watt/seconds.

 

WW

I notice in the ads for the Flashpoint that you're looking at that GN56 and GN60, the traditional way to flag guide numbers, are discretely displayed in the descriptions of the two heads. I can't imagine what those would mean except guide numbers, which don't look that impressive. If they are not guide numbers, then it's a pretty bad marketing strategy to just dump them in there with no explanation! So what else could they be than that?

 

That anonymous [idiots] people buying the product are impressed by the power doesn't mean a thing to me when I see those numbers displayed up front from the manufacturer.

Edited April 6, 2018 by michael_darnton|2

My mistake it's supposed to be three times as powerful as a standard Speedlight.

 

I don't know what the numbers are that they posted with it I was very confused by it too but every video every person I've talked to about it claims it's three times as strong as a standard Speedlight it looks very interesting.

 

I'm shooting a film camera old film camera I don't need TTL I don't need all that fancy junk that you pay $600 for a flash nowadays for. I believe there are 486 reviews on it on Adorama or B&H Photo and they're all pretty positive my guess is it's pretty decent.

This conversation made me curious enough to read the User Manual and therein, the Manufacturer’s claims are quite clear.

 

The User Manual for the FPFlashpoint eVOLV200 states:

“Guide No. (ft/m ISO 100) : Speedlite flash head : 170ft/52m (ISO 100) 35mm coverage”

 

The Nikon SB 800 User Manual states:

“Guide number (at 35mm zoom-head position, 20°C/68°F) : 38/125 (ISO 100, m/ft)”

 

I’d typically want a PRACTICAL comparison and therefore I tend to compare GNs either by Aperture or Maximum Flash Working Distance - which would mean, assuming a 135 Format Camera (i.e "Full Frame"):

 

> At F/8, for a 35mm FL Lens coverage and at ISO100, the FPFlashpoint eVOLV200 has a MFWD of about 21ft

> At F/8 for a 35mm FL Lens coverage and at ISO100, the Nikon SB 800 has a MFWD of about 16ft

 

Alternatively

 

> For a Subject 20ft, using a 35mm lens, and ISO100 the FPFlashpoint eVOLV200 would require about F/9

> For a Subject 20ft, using a 35mm lens, and ISO100 the Nikon SB 800 would require about F/6.3

 

That's a difference and not an insignificant difference, but not a big difference, either.

 

I don't know what the claimants define as a "standard Speedlite", but the Manufacturer's claims don't seem to be 'three times as powerful' as the what Nikon claims for their SB800

 

I am moderately curious as to why you'd be mentioning / seeking advice from Video People about comparative Flash Head Power?

 

WW

Okay I didn't go as far as you did I was based on reviews that I watched on YouTube videos from photographers that have been using it and claiming it three times stronger.

I'm in no way trying to promote sales of this I've never used it I just stumbled onto it and if it truly is three times as powerful I'm interested in it for $299 I'm going to buy it for myself and find out.

 

And from the look of some of the videos that I watched how far they were away from the subject in a softbox I would tend to believe it is 3 times stronger then a standard Speedlight.

 

For your information the video people are professional photographers that are making the videos.

Edited April 6, 2018 by michael_radika

I have never thought that you were trying to promote this product, I simply thought that you wanted a better understanding of it.

 

You stated that you didn't know what the numbers meant and that you were confused: "I don't know what the numbers are that they posted with it I was very confused by it too"

 

I was interested enough to research the product and hopefully provide to you a clearer meaning of what the Guide Numbers actually meant in a practical shooting scenario.

 

Thanks for explaining what "every video every person I've talked to about it" means.

 

It was clear that you had watched some videos about this product, but it was not clear that you had spoken to the people, who had made those videos.

 

Regarding your last comment "from the look of some of the videos that I watched how far they were away from the subject in a softbox I would tend to believe it is 3 times stronger then a standard Speedlight."

 

Note that it is not possible to make any reasonable assessment of Flash 'Power' simply by reckoning the Distance to the Subject; you need to know the ISO used and also the Lens Aperture used to begin to form an opinion on Flash Power.

 

WW

Exactly I didn't understand the numbers I thought it was an interesting concept that it's kind of just like an oversized Speedlight it has a reasonable price and there's a lot of people claiming that it's let's say two and a half three times stronger so yeah I would like to know more about it that was my intention and actually if there's anybody that even owns it that would speak up and say what they think about it but I've heard nothing but good reviews good videos I've heard nothing but good things about it but I didn't understand all the guide numbers and all of that It confused me.

 

So thank you for your explanation of those numbers based on the numbers that you came up with it doesn't seem like it's three times stronger.

Maybe it isn't "three time stronger", but that doesn't mean it wont be useful for what you want and more powerful than what you have now..

 

 

I think that other key questions would be:

 

1. does the PFlashpoint eVOLV200 unit easily fit into and mount onto your existing Flash Lighting system

 

2. does the PFlashpoint eVOLV200 unit provide enough variance in its power settings for the work that you want to do

 

3. will the PFlashpoint eVOLV200 power supply be adequate enough to provide a recycle time and total shoot time that you require

 

I think that I noted that it has an LED modelling light and that is of interest - but then on the other hand, a modelling light (even an LED) will likely suck a bit power, so probably it would be a good idea to find out if the modelling light can be turned off, or the LED easily removed if battery drain is a concern.

 

WW

I agree with you those are all great questions that I need to ask myself and to find out about this thing I believe on a fully charged battery you get 500 or 600 full power flashes.

 

It doesn't Zoom so you're stuck at 35 mm with the fresnel lens on it you can take the fresnel lens off and go Bare Bulb be good for a softbox.

 

Let's just say for argument's sake realistically it's twice the power of the SB 800 I'm still interested. There are multiple attachments or barn doors for it all kinds of different things it just looks like a very interesting thing that I'd like to investigate.

Well, if you buy one, perhaps you could come back with a report on it.

 

WW

As a general rule, I'm skeptical of any 4 or 5 cell shoe mount flash that claims an ISO 100 GN higher than ~120ft(36m) at the 35mm eq. zoom head setting. Some modern flashes might have pushed that up a bit, but 126ft stands out in my head as the highest I've seen.

 

My "yard stick" is the venerable Vivitar 283, which has a GN of 120 ft. The much more versatile Metz 36CT3 from the same era that I prefer has the same guide number(Metz flashes generally use the GN in meters in their name), as did my Canon 580EX and my Nikon SB800. As others have said, these newer flashes just have more features and not necessarily more powerful.

 

When I need a more powerful flash, I move up to Metz handle mount units. The 45 series and 60 series are the classics here-I use a 60 series. I had my 60CT4 on my Hasselblad and my F100 last weekend. For the Hasselblad, I used a PC cord(I need to spend the money and get a good Hasselblad-specific one from Paramount) while I was able to get TTL via a Nikon-specific hot shoe adapter. The drag-quite literally-with this set-up is the battery pack you have to sling over your shoulder. I also have a nifty Metz 76MZ-5 that will do iTTL(again, with the Nikon adapter) and other nifty stuff like an auto-zoom head and CAN run off a battery that fits up in the handle. I also have a shoulder pack for it(mercifully NiMH rather than SLA) if I want more pops per charge.

Well, if you buy one, perhaps you could come back with a report on it.

 

WW

 

I will definitely report back if I buy one and give you a full report on it.

"Is the Nikon SB 800 a more powerful Flash than the sb-80dx?"

 

- Nope! The flash power (energy to be scientifically correct) of Nikon's top line speedlights hasn't changed in years. They all have the same guide number at the same coverage angle. It's about 28 to 30 (metres/100 ISO) @ 50mm according to accurate flashmeters and practical exposures.

 

"My point is most of the Nikon flashes sb26 sb28 sb700 they all seem to have basically the same power the same guide number."

 

- The SB-700 is a '2nd tier' flash and is a stop less powerful than the SB-24, 25, 26, 28, etc.

 

Based on the capacitor value and voltage (1400uF 330vw), Nikon's top range speedlights have an energy of around 75 watt-seconds. This is comparable with every other camera maker's top line shoe-mount flash.

 

"My "yard stick" is the venerable Vivitar 283, which has a GN of 120ft."

 

- No way! The Vivitar 283's capacitor is around 2/3rds of the above value, and probably stores about 50 watt-seconds. As such it might struggle to output a true (measured) GN of 22 m, or 72 ft.

 

However, you can't directly compare speedlight 'power' in watt-seconds or Guide Numbers with that of studio flash heads. The reflectors in speedlights are far more directional and efficient for a start.

 

For the same reason, the old hammerhead Mecablitzes are slightly deceptive. The directly measured GN of a 45CT is only 30, and the 60 series reach around 45. Yet their bounced light effectively has more power due to the wide spread of light from the less-focused reflector.

 

Anyway, to answer the question more directly. My Nissin Di866 consistently gives a higher measured GN than any of my Nikon speedlights at 32 m. Since that's only 1/3rd of a stop gain it's hardly a big deal.

 

If you want significantly more power, you'll have to spend big on something like a Quantum Q flash or Godox's clone of it.

 

Cheapest way to get more power is to double up on old speedlights like the SB-24, 25 etc. Or Canon's equivalent, or cheap manual-only flashes like YongNuo's YN560.

 

BTW. As I've said many times before; all flash manufacturers lie about Guide Numbers. You can easily and quickly check this with a flashmeter or digital camera. You need to divide any maker's published GN by at least 1.4 - i.e subtract one stop.

Edited April 7, 2018 by rodeo_joe|1

As a general rule, I'm skeptical . . . [about claimed GNs] . .

 

I concur.

 

I have Canon, Fuji and Vivitar “Speedlite” type Flash Units and a couple of Metz Hammer-heads, they all tend to punch below their ‘claimed’ GN, but the Metz are the closest.

 

This doesn’t bother me that much, the important thing for me to know is my MFWD (or more specifically what I term “Safe maximum flash working distance”) at any Aperture and ISO and I have those key distances taped onto the back of the units: but I kind of know my key ‘safe’ distances by rote, simply by field testing each unit after purchase. The main thing for me has always been to know what FEC (or Aperture Compensation) to use for each of my Flash Units, especially for Fill Flash which for Wedding work was used extensively.

 

I did get enthusiastic one day several years ago and I took the effort to test my Canon 580 using my Sekonic L758.

 

The Canon Specs claim the following GN (ISO 100 / ft)

At 35mm FL GN = 118

At 50mm FL GN = 138

At 105mm FL GN = 190

 

Metering with my Sekonic, I found the following to be closer to the mark for a ‘correct exposure’ (i.e. to ensure that the Flash has enough power to act as a definitive “Key Light”):

At 35mm FL GN ≈ 85

At 50mm FL GN ≈ 90

At 105mm FL GN ≈ 130

 

I think that all GN ‘claimed’ specs have some wiggle room, it is just that some manufacturers wiggle more than others.

 

WW

. . . BTW. As I've said many times before; all flash manufacturers lie about Guide Numbers. You can easily and quickly check this with a flashmeter or digital camera. You need to divide any maker's published GN by at least 1.4 - i.e subtract one stop.

 

Yes, you were writing as I was writing. loosing about 1 Stop is about what I got when I more accurately tested my 580, (see my comment above).

 

WW

That Godox 200 looks much better value than, say, Nikon's SB-910 or Canon's extortionate 600 EX, but it's really not designed to be sat in the hotshoe on top of a camera. So comparison with a speedlight is a bit 'apples versus oranges'.

 

The other downside I see is that you're stuck with Godox modifiers and accessories, since there's no speedring fitting.

 

Personally, I'd go with something that has the widely used Bowens S fitting.

Edited April 7, 2018 by rodeo_joe|1