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Projecting 35mm vs MF


SJSF

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Recently, I purchased a Kodak projector and for the first time, viewed 35mm slides on my 120" screen. For various reasons, I had never bothered to project these slides that I had shot some 20 years ago. The slides were shot with a cheap Canon kit lens and not so expensive film. And, even then - they sort of wow-ed me. So I thought to myself, if 35mm looks so good, I bet MF is going to look even more glorious.

 

Fast forward a few weeks, I own three different MF systems - a Yashica Mat 12, a Mamiya C330 and a Hasselblad 503CW. Now, I haven't received the slides back that shot with the Hasselblad yet but I projected slides from the Yashica and Canon 35mm on the same screen.

 

For 35mm, I have a Leica RT-300 with the 90mm f2.4 Colorpan and a Navitar 70-125mm lens. For MF, so far, the only working projector I have is a Trumpf with a 150mm/f3.5 lens. I got a Rollei P11 but still waiting for a power cord and 6x6 slide tray. The Leica, I can almost fill the 120" screen with the Navitar set to 70mm or bit smaller with the 90mm. The MF slides end up smaller width wise on the screen but almost fill the screen vertically - so even with a wider lens, I couldn't project larger images.

 

Now, granted that I am still working on focusing skills with my MF cameras and newer Canon L lens probably run circles around the old Yashinon 80mm but I am not seeing a huge pop in the projected images from MF compared to 35mm. So I am wondering, given that I won't see images larger than what can fill my 120" screen - is MF worth all the hassle of maintaining another system or should I instead work/invest more on my Canon 35mm system? Or, given the viewing format of 16:10, 6x4.5 will look richer and more detailed than 35mm?

 

One slide show that I did for my friends - the 35mm ones did get more applause than the MF ones. The pictures are mostly portraits and that is what I intend to shoot the most - family/friends.

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Look REALLY CAREFULLY at the 35mm vs MF projected images.

What is/are the differences?

  • Certain subjects may strike/get a better response than others.
  • Poses.
  • Is there a film projected color difference?
  • If you don't see the "pop," is there an exposure difference, where the MF is under or over exposed, compared to the 35mm.
  • Is the MF camera and projecting lenses CLEAN. As a glasses wearer, I can tell you that the world loses contrast and "pop" when my glasses gets dirty.

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You're comparing an excellent 35 mm projector with a much older, less competent MF projector. This could have a lot to do with why you're not seeing a big difference between the two formats. I shot 120 Kodachrome in the late 80's when it was available with a Rolleiflex 3.5E, and it put 35mm to shame.
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I agree that I would consider the lenses in use.

 

I use an Ektagraphic these days(professional grade Carousel) with a Buhl lens. I was ASTOUNDED at how much of a difference I saw when I put the Buhl lens on it. The difference between the Ektagraphic and a Carousel is insignificant at home or for any light duty use, but the Buhl lens is miles ahead of any of the Kodak lenses that came packaged with their projects.

 

As mentioned, your 35mm projector has an outstanding lens and your MF is of unknown quality.

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I've seen Rollie MF profectors on Ebay now and then. They are not cheap but well worth it if you have 120 slides. I found a GAF/Ansco projector that holds one 6x6 frame at a time. It works but the lens is only fair in the corners. Regardless of the format the quality of your lens is important. I found a Leitz lens for my Kodak projector. I've also found that adding a black cardboard aperture disk, stopping the lens down to f8 made a huge difference in corner quality.
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Thanks for all the responses and sorry for the delayed response.

 

Yes, slides are in Gepe anti-newton glass mounts. While the Noris Trumpf may not be a top rate projector (it was brand new in the box when I got it couple of weeks ago) I suspect the issue is that I shot a lot of the film at pretty wide apertures, mostly f3.5 or 4 - so very likely the Yashinon 80mm f3.5 isn't at it's best wide open either in terms of sharpness or color/contrast.

 

I managed to get the Rollei P11, I have, powered up but it's broken - the slide claws don't work and when I manually managed to get a slide in the projector, the projected image wasn't illuminated correctly. Hoping to get a Rollei P66E in the mail, later this week. And, again later this week, hopefully, I should get a few rolls that I shot with the Hasselblad 503cw, developed - so that will be a good data point to compare with.

 

Meanwhile, I am wondering what other lens will fit the Rollei P11 if I can get it fixed. One on is a 150mm/f2.8 but I cannot get any other lens to fit the mount barrel (the 35mm projectors seem to have swappable lens - the RT-300 and Carousel take all sorts of lens). The Rollei P11 lens has a ~74mm barrel diameter. The Noris Trump barrel is the same diameter as the Carousel/RT-300 but the outside needs to be smooth unlike the lens adapter for RT-300/Carousel which has a flat/ribbed side.

 

[uSER=2105396]@Gary Nakayama - SF Bay Area, California[/uSER] Thanks for that detailed checklist

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I project both 35mm and 120 and there is a huge difference, even with my smaller 90x90 inch screen. 35mm while better than any digital tv show cant compare to a well shot 120 slide. even 645 slides look great. I have a leica 35mm projector and a hasselblad pcp-80 for 6x6. velvia 120 slides shot with my mamiya 6 are just jaw dropping.
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Thoughts: I 've never been able to achieve optimal projection conditions; i.e. a flat projection screen angled into the absence of DOF of the lens. Everything I own(ed) shows marks from rolling &/ tendencies to roll in the other dimension. It would require an ability to lean the top end of your screen slightly towards the projector in an average room most rolling up screens I encountered come on a stand that doesn't permit that.

not so expensive film
Must have been moderate ISO i.e. 200 or less; I recall ISO 1000 being expensive and grainy enough to shout for MF.

 

To me it seems the classic projection rig with 35mm through a 90mm wasn't made for a pixel peeping equivalent experience, since I recall myself walking closer to my screen to see details.

To get blown away by moderate ISO MF slides you should probably project with standard instead of portrait lenses and make a superhuman effort to get your perfect screen into DOF. As long as your projection rig isn't aligned focused and sharp enough to make you dream of building a 4th darkroom wall around the lens where it is and exposing some horribly expensive Cibachrome or similar by attaching it to your screen, MF projection isn't the tool to wow friends with resolution.

 

A slide show is justified by how few or many frames? - 300? - 200? - Financial and practical effort to get those many keepers together? - 100 rolls assuming you are able to nail exposure without bracketing?

 

Sorry if I am derailing / trolling but these days I'd ponder investing into a clean 5K Retina iMac, a shoebox full of supermarket reading glasses or maybe even a Chinese optometrists' trial lens kit for less than $150 and dealing with friends kind of 1:1, placing them at that screen while I am busy in the kitchen, maybe carrying the conversation on according to remote accessing what they are looking at via cell phone or tablet.

 

To me 4K+ screen viewing comes pretty close to having a good print of the screen's size and is admittedly demanding on the eye correction worn; i.e. it should be maxed out for that viewing distance and I fear a lot of folks are staggering around with different compromises on them (if at all).

 

I have an unspectacular 6x6 projector somewhere and maybe took one brick or less of slides with my Mamiya TLRs or Pentacon. My reasons to not pursue slides anymore:

  • They are demanding exposure wise.
  • They also demand proper framing. - For me 6x6 is more fun (ab)used as sloppy 4.5x6 or whatever and cropped on 8x10" in the darkroom.
  • I can't afford getting ready; i.e. getting together those 200+ keepers for a show in MF.
  • Ill matching habits / accomodation; Not much space, no shutters for windows, Being near sighted and happily idling with contacts out.

Depending on how you are working I assume Canon could be a better bet than MF as long as huge prints aren't the ultimate goal.

  • Zooms
  • Less light needed due to IS lenses faster glass and an AF hopefully working well enough to allow shooting at wider apertures than MF which also demands an extra stop to provide similar DOF.

If you are doing planned studio like sessions, MF might work. - Can you handle strobes with slide film?

As you've seen from your friends' reactions: An image has first of all to be good content wise. Then there comes a huge gap and after that one it might benefit from higher resolution than a HD screen demands.

But are people really into resolution?

I went mostly digital and want to get back to B&W wet darkroom.

In the old days slides were nice; today I'd rather have files to flip through. - I doubt a somewhat affordable impressive beamer for files to already exist though, so yes, if your goal is to impress bigger audiences slides seem still the way to go.

Biggest pitfall I am aware of: Undershooting. Presenting less than a dozen prints is fine. - Rigging a projector up for just 2 dozen slides?

How to share your images? - I'd rather ditch a HDD full of RAW files I took on others than sit and scan 4+x slides for them. I also don't fancy getting into color printing at home.

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