Copal 0 Interchangeability?

<p>I have a Fujinon-W 135 f5.6 in a Copal 0 shutter, and a similar 150mm, also in a Copal 0.<br>

The front coating on the 135 is ruined, but the shutter is perfect; the 150 lens is perfect, but its shutter is completely locked up.<br>

Will it work to just switch the good lens to the good shutter? Obviously it will fit, but I would think the diaphragm openings would have to be different. Wouldn't the opening for f8 have to be larger on a 150mm lens than on a 135?<br>

The markings on the shutters are identical except one has "53" printed on the side, and the other has "54."<br>

A sort of corollary question would be: if I buy a Copal 0 on eBay, does it need to be adjusted, depending on the focal length of the lens its intended for?<br>

Thanks in advance. </p>

<p>I have Rodenstock and Caltar lenses in Copal shutters (both #0 and #1) and they have aperture setting marks that are on plates that are screwed in to the shutter body. I haven't tried interchanging them but I assume that they would since when I replaced the Copal # 1 shutter on my Rodenstock Sironar-N 210mm f/5.6 I removed the plates from the old shutter and attached them to the new one and exposure settings remained the same. My Nikkor M 300 f/9, on the other hand, has the f/stop settings painted on to the shutter body, so it would be impossible to reuse them easily on another shutter. I don't know how Fuji lenses used the Copal shutters--if the plates are interchangeable, then you should be able move the lens elements from your 150 to the 135 shutter. Make sure you don't ignore spacers--they are probably placed there to insure proper distance from the shutter to the lens elements for best sharpness.</p>

<p>When changing lens A from shutter A to shutter B shutter B's threads have to be the same diameter and thread pitch front and rear. Lens A has to screw into shutter B leaving the same clearance from the shutter blades, the aperture blades, and the distance between the front and rear elements at the shutter will have to be the same distance apart as they were in shutter A. Production tolerances may dictate that shims be added to get the spacing right or some slight milling of the shutter may be required. Once spacing issues are correct then a new aperture scale will need to be made for lens A in shutter B unless the aperture scale from shutter A can be transferred to shutter B.</p>

<p>Interesting. I didn't notice that the aperture scales aren't part of the shutter's "barrel." They're on plates, held on with screws; easy to remove. I don't have access to the 150 at the moment, but the number "54" is also on the plate on the 135. I'm guessing that's related to the calibration of the f-stop numbers.<br>

In this case, I can transfer the plate from one shutter to the other. If you were to buy a shutter on ebay or elsewhere, you'd need to find a plate that matched your lens. <br>

B&H still sells Copal shutters; Adorama does not. Looking at the Copal Japan website, it seems they don't make these any more, so there's no source for the aperture plates, unless someone here knows of one. </p>

<p>http://www.skgrimes.com/services/large-format-photography-repair-services<br>

iris engraving is under the Repair Services tab, also see lens Lens Mounting.</p>

<p>You should also use a micrometer to measure how thick the two shutters are. They need to be the same thickness, as the spacing of the two lens cells is critical to their sharpness. Some lenses are mounted on shutters of non-standard thickness, which is why you need to measure the thickness.</p>

<p>The shutters are made to the same standard, are interchangeable. As the OP has already noted, the scales can be swapped.</p>

<p>OP, go to it and ignore the nervous nellies who go on about using micrometers and what the threading has to be.</p>

<p>One caution that isn't relevant to your lenses. Press shutters' diaphragms and shutter blades are closer to the rear of the rear tube than are cock and shoot shutters'. This can be a problem with lenses whose rear cells go deep into the rear tube, in a few cases the rear cell's inner element can contact the diaphragm. Your lenses' rear cells don't go that far into the rear tube.</p>

<p>Dan, on one lens/shutter where I swapped the lens from one shutter to another of the same make and vintage the rear cell cleared the aperture blades on the original and touched the aperture blades on the second shutter. It took a 60° to 70° turn counter clockwise from tight to clear the aperture blades. Production tolerance difference in the threads or shutter case length was the cause. </p>

<p>Although it may be rare it does occur and is one reason lens from the factory have shims.</p>

<p>Charles, thanks for the information. Names, please. Lens and shutters.</p>

<p>Most lens cells mount in standard shutters directly. But not all. But the Fujinons are probably new enough lenses to mount in standard shutters. But there were plenty of cases where shutters were made extra thick or thin to meet the needs of a particular lens design.<br>

You can certainly compare the thickness of the two shutters by direct comparison. Remove the lens cells, and put them on a flat table. Put a ruler across the top, see that the edge sits squarely on both edges of the top of both shutters. </p>

<p>Dan, its been too long to remember. I think it was a Synchro Compur or Compound switch who's drawings showed the same deminsions. I have a Symmar 210/370 from a Synchro Compur to A Copal 1 to test one of these days. Its been on the back burner for a couple of months.</p>

<p>Charles, some sizes of Compounds and Compur #2s came with different tube lengths, didn't conform to the Compur/Copal/Prontor/Seiko/Seikosha standard. Copal 3S and Copal 3 also have different tube lengths.</p>

<p>#0s conform to the standard.</p>

<p>#00s are a little problematic. I once bought an Ilex wide angle in an Ilex electric shutter that was threaded like a #00 but had a shorter tube than the #00 standard. Steve Grimes opened up a standard #00's tubes for me to let the cells' shutters go deep enough into its tubes. But that's not the OP's problem.</p>

<p>The shutters are made to the same standard, are interchangeable. As the OP has already noted, the scales can be swapped.</p>

<p>OP, go to it and ignore the nervous nellies who go on about using micrometers and what the threading has to be.</p>

Follow-up, only two years late: As I said, the two lenses were Fujinons of different focal lengths but about the same vintage and both in Copal 0.

 

Just to be sure, I did measure the two shutters, and of course, they are identical in every dimension. Just guessing, but I'd say that the designer of the lenses knows the standard thickness of a Copal 0, and it's easier/cheaper to design the lens to that standard than to modify all the shutters for a particular lens. Guessing again, I would bet real money that all Fujis from at least the 1970s, or earlier, fit a standard shutter size. For times earlier than the Copal standards there were almost no standards at all, which is probably where all the warnings come from.

 

In any case, after measuring, I swapped the lenses and aperture plates, and it works just fine.

 

Thanks.

How about the shutter scales?