As you 'like' it

Pardon my ignorance, but who is this Dylan who is constantly being mentioned?

 

Is it Dylan from the magic roundabout?

 

 

:)

 

 

The Magic Roundabout - Wikipedia

"Art is not at all subjective"

That is patently false.

Art is by definition a product of the creative perception of the artist.

It is subject to the perception and ability of the artist who creates it.

It is also subject to the perception and ability of the critic who observes it.

It is what it is.......

Though I seem to recall "is" having been up for considerable debate by some at one time....

It's sublime, but it's not my favorite either. I would start with the album Ten New Songs, for the text and poetry but the songs themselves also have a nice mellow groove to it with the backing vocals and which you can grow into if you allow yourself to. I'm Your Man is the album that introduced me to Cohen. My father used to play it a lot when I was around 12-13 years old. And even though I didn't really understand what it all could mean I secretly (secretly because it's not exactly cool to "like" your dad's music at that age) listened and played the songs First We Take Manhattan and

endlessly on repeat whenever my dad was not around. At a much later age I started to really listen to the lyrics (poems actually that hold up on the page without any music). Songs like Sisters of Mercy,

, So Long Marianne, Famous Blue Raincoat, Hey That's No Way To Say Goodbye, Who By Fire,...

 

But regardless of being emotionally attached to either one because of an early exposure to their music, Leonard Cohen was born a poet while Bob Dylan has always been better at pretending to be and write like one.

 

 

Phil, you have to be Canadian! I am from Minnesota and am naturally biased in Dylan's favor plus his body of work dwarfs Cohen's by many kilometers (not even counting Dylan's Nobel Prize). I like Cohen but most of his work is just not edgy enough for my likes. All of the posters so far have not mentioned the wonderful and prolific melodies Dylan composed. My wife has a PHD in Creative Writing with an emphasis on poetry and she doesn't think Dylan is a good poet either. I think he is a great song writer with a few of his songs possibley moving in to the poetry category but not many.

Holy Cow!

LOL. If you know anything about literature and poetry you should know that Cohen is the better writer. As far as words are concerned, I can write any Dylan song with my eyes closed twice and English isn't even my first language. I can't claim the same for Cohen. Dylan is simplistic in comparison.

Don't get why it's so black/white, either/or. Just because you believe Cohen's a better writer doesn't mean Dylan is chop liver. But I do think in some instances Cohen is deeper. In Dylan's Hiway 66 and Blond on Blonde days he was very clever at using literary references to create a surreal effect, but when Cohen does it, it seems to have a more subtle and deeper use of the imagery. But Highway 66 Revisted is IMO one of the best albums of its time.

I have not been active on photo.net for some time now, but do still lurk because I enjoy some of the forums and the conversation. The main reason for my inactivity has been a wane in an interest in photography. I've become more interested in golf, which I equally stink at. But I also disliked the addition of the social convention of 'Likes' when photo.net was revamped. I mentioned this in a thread in the nature forum, and the thoughtful responses made me wonder if it might not be an interesting topic of discussion to avail to a larger audience. I realize this isn't going to change a thing, so it's merely a discussion for discussion's sake.

 

I do not like the 'like' feature for picture-focused forums. For discussion forums, it has a bit of a different connotation for me, and merely indicates you agree with what someone else has stated, but for the picture-focused forums, I think there is a tendency for it to breed cliquish and reciprocal behavior, and don't think it really provides any benefit. If I have a picture on flickr, for example, that is 'faved' by someone, I feel somewhat obligated to look at that person's work and 'fave' something in return, just because it seems the nice thing to do. I'd actually prefer that people not 'fave' my pics, but comment if they feel I've done something notable (or crappy). I think we all know people who 'like' other entries in hopes of getting 'likes' in return. There is a local wildlife photographer who does some nice work, but she'd also get hundreds of 'faves' for a snapshot of dung as well.

 

In one of the forums I follow on here, there if a very small participation base, and it seems that nearly every entry is 'liked' by the regulars, and I really think it's done more to encourage participation than express an opinion of the posted shot. However, I've seen some new participants on occasion that don't get the same number of 'likes,' and I think that proves to be discouraging to them.

 

So just wondering, what do others think? Is the 'like' liked by many? Would the effort and thought that goes into a brief comment be more appreciated?

 

You may be over thinking this, although there's probably a little truth to what you say. For me liking a comment merely means I appreciate your perspective, or that I agree, either of which seem harmless, if perhaps pointless. Laying your lack of interest in photography at the feet of "likes" might be a bit of a stretch. To me the difference between sucking at golf, and photography, is that with photography you're engaged in a creative pursuit with a final product. It's the reason I switched from being an audiophile to photographer many years ago. There's very little creative input in Audio beyond selecting components for a system.

For me liking a comment merely means I appreciate your perspective, or that I agree, either of which seem harmless, if perhaps pointless.

A couple of points . . . Jordan was talking more specifically about liking photos, not comments. Notice the beginning of his second paragraph: "I do not like the 'like' feature for picture-focused forums." He's mostly talking about how likes are used in No Words forums. I don't agree wholeheartedly with Jordan, but do think there's a difference between liking a comment and liking a photo.

Laying your lack of interest in photography at the feet of "likes" might be a bit of a stretch.

I agree it would be a stretch if that's what he were doing, but I don't think it is. If you read carefully what he wrote, he talked about his waning interest in photography and his dislike of likes, but he DID NOT connect them in the way you're suggesting. What he's saying is that his disinterest in photography recently caused him not to be active on the site much. When he's come back to PN on occasion, he's noticed the 'likes" situation and doesn't like it. Two separate issues, the disinterest in photography and not liking the likes.

It's the reason I switched from being an audiophile to photographer many years ago. There's very little creative input in Audio beyond selecting components for a system.

All I can say is, from my vantage point and reading many of the conversations here on PN and on other photography sites, for many people photography is more like audiophilia than it is a creative pursuit. Judging by much of the talk, one might think cameras, gear, lenses, format, and medium were much more important than any sort of creative input or output! :)

I got to this discussion late, and admit that I haven't read all of it. The "Like" button covers a huge semantic area, everything from "that's a great photograph" through "it's clever" to "there's something good about it but I can't tell what it is" and possibly ending with, "If I like this person's photo, maybe they'll like mine." Nevertheless, I think "likes" are good for PN at the present time. Many members have stopped being active. Several of the photographers from whom I received an education in photography, in answers to my questions and the questions of others, haven't posted since some time last year. In that context, I believe it helps that there's a group of people who like each other's photos. If that's cliquish, so be it. If they are hitting the button in the hope of reciprocity, I don't care. If some are addicted to a stranger's validation, fine.

A couple of points . . . Jordan was talking more specifically about liking photos, not comments. Notice the beginning of his second paragraph: "I do not like the 'like' feature for picture-focused forums." He's mostly talking about how likes are used in No Words forums. I don't agree wholeheartedly with Jordan, but do think there's a difference between liking a comment and liking a photo.

 

I agree it would be a stretch if that's what he were doing, but I don't think it is. If you read carefully what he wrote, he talked about his waning interest in photography and his dislike of likes, but he DID NOT connect them in the way you're suggesting. What he's saying is that his disinterest in photography recently caused him not to be active on the site much. When he's come back to PN on occasion, he's noticed the 'likes" situation and doesn't like it. Two separate issues, the disinterest in photography and not liking the likes.

 

All I can say is, from my vantage point and reading many of the conversations here on PN and on other photography sites, for many people photography is more like audiophilia than it is a creative pursuit. Judging by much of the talk, one might think cameras, gear, lenses, format, and medium were much more important than any sort of creative input or output! :)

 

 

You're probably right, I gave it the once over lightly.

I've noticed that over on IG I have a pretty good idea of which photographs will get a lot of likes. It's an uncomfortable feeling because out of vanity or neediness or whatever human defect I have, it gives me a tendency to think "liked" photographs are better photographs, which is not true. The "like" deal is really a dumbing down of everyone's visual literacy. You flip through 20, 50, or 100 photos in some brief period of time and click "like" on the ones you like. It doesn't allow for much in the way of informed observation. And as the OP said, it is totally devoid of meaningful interaction. That said, I think these kinds of conversations can be very meaningful.

Thanks to 'foto,' 'Hector,' 'Fred,' and 'john' for getting this back on track. This thread certainly took an unexpected diversion. 'Fred' did a good job of explaining to 'foto' what I was trying to say, so no need for me to go beyond that. John has provided a nice summary of what I've also felt. While I have used the 'like' function both here and in another forum I participate in (unrelated to photography (or golf)), I don't think anything is lost by not having it, and in its absence, encourages more meaningful conversation and lessens the opportunity for feel-good reciprocity, particular when discussing photos. Does it hurt anything, 'no,' but I think it 'dumbs down' a site like photo.net, which, for me anyway, I'd always held in somewhat hire regard than, say, 'facebook' and 'flickr.'

reciprocity

Reciprocity, “feel-good” or otherwise, can be a darn good thing. There’s a sharing aspect to photography and other arts that energizes it. A like can be as superficial as a pat on the back, but a pat on the back involves human touch, and nothing is more simple yet more important to quality of life. I like can mean no more than “I looked” and that can be important to someone reaching out with a photographic vision. Likes aren’t substitutes for critiques and can be viewed in their own right instead of against critiques. Critiques on PN were down long before likes were instituted. So I don’t think likes operate instead of critiques, which were fading already.

True Fred. I've gotten 'likes' on comments in the other forum I referenced, and they do generate positive feelings, and most people who 'like' photos are, more likely than not, not looking for 'likes' in return. But I continue to think that the format makes it easier to breed 'you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours' thinking than not having such does, and a simple 'Nice job' or 'I agree' response provides the same feedback.

No words means no words. So there are no simple “Nice jobs” or “I agrees” allowed in that forum where, instead, likes are offered.

'you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours'

A whole lot better than the “get off my lawn” mentality often encountered in various societal situations. The Internet is continually blamed for its isolating effects. A little scratching of backs may act as a bit of an antidote to that. I don’t accept that scratching each other’s back is necessarily bad by default or in all contexts. It’s just a saying.

When I look at your photo, can you see me smile?

...most people who 'like' photos are, more likely than not, not looking for 'likes' in return.

 

That suits me fine. I'm strictly film, and I don't want to digitize my photos so I never post any here. I give out a good number of likes.

 

Hmm... I'll take all the "likes"

I can get...

http://bayouline.com/o2.gif

That suits me fine. I'm strictly film, and I don't want to digitize my photos so I never post any here. I give out a good number of likes.

 

Hmm... I'll take all the "likes"

I can get...

Vincent, you’re actually providing a unique service. In No Words, I tend to get to know most people by the photos they post. With you, there’s an interesting twist. I get to know you solely by the photos you like. So instead of filling in photographic blanks about you by what you create, I do it based on your taste. It presents an interesting opportunity! Come to think of it, it would be a hoot if we could like others’ likes. :)

"I do it based on your taste. It presents an interesting opportunity! Come to think of it, it would be a hoot if we could like others’ likes. :) "

 

LOL

Vincent... ...I get to know you solely by the photos you like.

 

Hmm... the stories I could

tell...

http://bayouline.com/o2.gif

"... the stories I could

tell..."Vince...maybe.

 

Haha...could they be about blowing smoke up folks arses:))

go to .... ah you guys get the idea.

 

i like everything and everyone. it encourages participation. once we get everyone involved... then you can use the disslike button and ignore feature.