Which "L seal" is genuine? (+ photo)

<p>Oups.. now with the photo.. Hi, there is on eBay two M3s claimed to come with an "L seal". However, they seem different to me (see namely the upper L loops on the photo). Anybody could tell me which one is the good? Thanks in advance.</p><div></div>

<p><em><strong><em><strong>"A" </strong></em></strong></em>seems to be a damaged or re-installed seal.<br>

<em><strong>"B"</strong> </em>is a poor fake...</p>

<p>Didier,</p>

<p>Don't be too enamored with the "L" seal. When I had my Leica professionally CLA'd by a certified/trained Leica tech, he replaced the wax seal with an identical "L" insignia after the service was complete. It's a novelty, nothing more, and basically meaningless.</p>

Thanks for your answers.

Carl, my understanding is that L seals are replaced each time a Leica is serviced by an ~approved Leica tech, so it is better then no seal, right? (provided it is genuine). Actually, it is better for a camera to have been serviced at least once since the 60s.

Gus, This is my guess for B. (A=290984957577 B=281175035232).

<blockquote>

<p>"It's a 100% original Leica M3 from 1960. It was serviced only by Leica since that time. You can verify this easily because there is still the <strong>"L" sealing</strong> at the top of the Lens mount (see pictures). This guarantees you that you have an original Leica M3 which was serviced only by professional Leica experts through decades. This Leica was not amateurishly dissembled and re-lubrificated like many others Leica M3 on ebay. This job was done professionally by Leica. The "L" seal is also perfect for collectors because it helps retaining the value of the body through decades. An "L" sealed Leica will always be more expensive than a non sealed one for obvious reasons" <strong><em>B=281175035232 Ebay item</em></strong></p>

</blockquote>

<p>Wow, talk about a <strong>"snowjob"</strong> and <strong>"putting lipstick on the pig" </strong><br /> In addition to the fake "L Seal", he's applied "self-stick" body covering... <br /> 100% original <strong>?</strong> Yeah right.</p>

<p>Didier -- your comment reminded me of an important understanding. Yes, you are right. The "L" insignia <strong>should</strong> (heavy emphasis on SHOULD) be only placed there by a licensed/certified/trained/blessed/ordained Leica repair person. If that has been done, then I agree the value of the camera should reflect that extra care and attention.</p>

<p>But ... as Gus helpfully pointed out, how do you know any prior repairs were done by the appropriately-trained repair person ...? That's the quandary. </p>

<p>I don't believe that Leica (NJ or Solms) stamps the seal anymore. My understanding is that practice is long gone. I personally wouldn't pay any credence to any M Leica that's advertised as having an "original L stamp." It really means nothing unless perhaps it's a genuine mint collector's item that is untouched with the original packaging and box, etc., and you're not planning to use it.</p>

<p>I'd prefer to buy one that's been recently serviced by Gus, Don, or Sherry (in the US.) And with the dated and original invoice of the service work. Don (DAG) uses a '92' stamp in the wax seal. I'm not sure if Gus uses a stamp but I heard that Sherry has one. For me, that's a lot more valuable than the provenance of some 'L stamp.'</p>

<p>This L stamp issue is more part of Leica mythology rather than anything practical. And if anything, an original L stamp to me means I'll need to get the camera serviced since it probably hasn't been serviced for quite a while. </p>

I see, one more addition to mythology. Anyway, thank you James for mentioning trustworthy Leica people, I will look at their site.

<p>FWIW different service centers of LEITZ not Leica had their own letters..<br>

My M3 had a "J" for Johannesburg where assembly was finalized..<br>

There was a list.. Not used anymore.</p>

The two Leica M cameras I bought which still had the seals intact didn't work. I sent them to two different non-authorized

Leica repairers in Japan, both of whom did a great job. Both cameras returned sporting new L seals.

 

The seal means nothing.

<blockquote>

<p>"The seal means nothing" <em><strong>Jeff G.</strong></em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>I simply can't agree with that statement.<br>

The seal can in fact serve:</p>

<ol>

<li>To tamper-proof the last technician's service</li>

<li>Re-sellers with confidence that someone didn't just "swap" tops on them to steal the internal condition/repair of the camera sold.</li>

<li>Like a <strong>comprehensive</strong> automobile<strong> restoration</strong> that includes the factory "painted dots" on the frame, a proper "L" seal is the "<strong>cherry on top</strong>" of a thorough repair.</li>

<li>To show that a tech who does possess the rare & authentic seal, that he/she may just have extra experience, means and foresight.</li>

</ol>

<p>I find that the perfectionist/collector among us, appreciates the look & feel of a camera that is back to factory specifications; newly serviced with a fresh <strong>60's</strong> looking German restoration... </p>

<p>My M3 double stroke, have a "60" engraved on the seal, but I've never known what it means.</p>

The perfectionist/collector among us, appreciates the "Cherry on Top" portion of the repair, and actually doesn't have a problem paying a little bit more for this type of pampering. After-all, a Rolls Royce isn't for everybody, but for those who agree with their motto: "Small things make perfection, but perfection is no small thing", the extra cost is well worth it...

 

In any case to clarify, long ago Germany & their repair dept. used the concave "L" seal (Shapley 'L' goes into the wax). The convex "L" wax seals (Bulged out), were produced by the 'New' camera production division.

Fortunately, my shop has access to either one...