As you 'like' it

Eminem is the best modern lyricist and word magician there is. Period.

Put up a poll, double dog dare you. Out here, we call what that fellow does( C) Rap.

Eminem is the best modern lyricist and word magician there is. Period.

 

And comparing Dylan to Cohen is like comparing Bieber to Shakespeare. That's how far the difference is between the two if you know anything about writing and poetry and aren't simply liking Dylan because of nostalgia and memories, which doesn't mean anything in the long run.

Dylan just isn't that good Fred when you compare him to someone like Cohen who many that know better know that he's the one that should have won the nobel prize for literature if there was any singer-songwriter to win it. Dylan didn't even had the decency to show up for it. He was more prolific and wrote some catchy tunes, yeah, so what.

The times they are a changing Phil!

Dylan just isn't that good Fred when you compare him to someone like Cohen

I don’t care much about the Nobel prize. You’re the one who seems to.

I love them both. I don’t see them as competitors but rather as co-travelers.

Well, I do care. And it sure seems that you care enough that I do care. LOL.

Afraid you got it wrong, Phil. I don't care about whether Dylan or Cohen gets a prize. And I don't much care what you care about. What I care enough about here is you, a decent photographer, going off the reservation in public. I care about it like I care about the occasional train wreck I can't help but watch.

Well, I do care.

So run a poll - have you got the nerve? Kinda doubt it. Takes courage.

My guess would be that a poll would say Dylan is more popular than Cohen . . . and it would be meaningless to me.

I thought Sally Hawkins turned in a better performance in The Shape of Water than Frances McDormand did in Three Billboards, but so far McDormand has won more of the prizes and my guess is she’d do better in a lot of polls. That wouldn’t affect my opinion. No reason Phil should do a poll to test his opinion or change his opinion of preferring Cohen. That he needs to diss Dylan in order to do so is where the problem lies.

Some folks are a lot nicer than I - back to polling participants, ya' got the nerve, Phil\?

My guess would be that a poll would say Dylan is more popular than Cohen . . . and it would be meaningless to me.

It's about credibility - of course Phil made a series of claims, step up and poll or just keep trolling.

of course Phil made a series of claims, step up and poll or just keep trolling.

Sandy, I don't understand what claims you think Phil made that would be resolved by a poll. He gave his opinions, ridiculous ones, of Dylan and Cohen. All a poll would show is that most people disagree with him. So what? That wouldn't undermine his credibility. He didn't claim that most people agree with him. What undermines his credibility are the actual things he wrote about Dylan. We can all read that. We don't need a poll.

silly-ness, to compare excellence. .

Atget

Weston

Moriyama

"That he needs to diss ... is where the problem lies."

Writers and poets would definitely not disagree with me.

Watch it. Someone might accuse you of Groupthink. And then go on an Internet rant about it. Oh . . . wait.

But yes Sandy asking me for a poll is silly.

Understandable given your own silliness in the matter.

For example, it's not groupthink for all of us to say that the Earth is round.

That’s because “the Earth is round” is a proven scientific fact. Whereas Cohen is better than Dylan is just the silly, opinionated rambling of an Internet troll. Assuming that other writers and poets would go along with such shallow and condescending thinking may not be groupthink, but it’s something related and not terribly pretty regardless of what you call it or how you try to rationalize it.

All art is subjective.......

Except for the stuff I like.

Cohen is the much better writer and poet than Dylan, which isn't an unreasonable claim to make

It's not, though I disagree with it.

What's unreasonable and seems silly to me are the claims that:

1) "I can write any Dylan song with my eyes closed" (it even sounds like something a kindergartner would say).

2) "Dylan is simplistic in comparison" (And I think he's not That's called a difference of opinion.)

3) "If you know anything about literature and poetry you should know that Cohen is the better writer." (There are probably a bunch of us here who know a thing or two about literature and poetry and don't know this, precisely because it's not something we "should" know. It's merely something you have an opinion about. This is not about knowledge or knowing facts.)

4) "The hell with Dylan . . ." (Needs no response.)

As for substance, I'm not about to sit here and argue with anyone who's better between Dylan and Cohen. I love them both too much to stoop to that kind of game. I'd be willing to compare and contrast them, which would seem a reasonable exercise, though not here since it's OT. But play a childish game of one being gospel, the other going to hell, not interested.

I didn't suggest Dylan going to hell (rolling eyes). I said Cohen is gospel as far as I'm concerned. The hell with Dylan and his...whatever.

LOL. If you want to stand on the semantical difference between suggesting Dylan go to hell and saying "the hell with Dylan and his...whatever," I'm happy to play along and concede the semantical point. There are some nuances of difference between saying those two things. What's not different is that they're both hyperbolic, they're both nasty, they're both unproductive, they're both non-substantive, and they both come across as childish, resentful, and perhaps a bit envious.

Get it, gospel-hell.

And you're talking about bad writers? Oh, do look in the mirror. Yes, don't worry. I got it and I suspect many others here got it. I, for one, didn't think much of it. It was pretty transparent and non-effective. It needs no explanation or pointing to. It was unsubtle enough to begin with. Good writers generally don't have to point out their cleverness to the audience so they can be sure the audience "gets it." They tend to have confidence in the clever things they write that those clever things will come across and make their point. Believe me, yours did. It just wasn't very rich or meaningful. I suggest you go listen to some Dylan. It might improve your writing, your thinking, and your outlook on life.

So why make this non-point about it, simply to argue?

No, it's to point out the childishness and nastiness of your using the "expression." Just because it's a known expression doesn't make it meaningful or useful to use here. Saying "the hell with Dylan . . ." in a forum like this, and in comparison to someone you claim, also hyperbolically, to be gospel, is simply juvenile provocation.

Pardon my ignorance, but who is this Cohen who is constantly being mentioned?

Thank you.

Pardon my ignorance, but who is this Cohen who is constantly being mentioned?

 

Thank you.

Leonard Cohen - Wikipedia

Vincent, here's the

according to Leonard Cohen. Gospel, get it? Wink, wink. Actually, one of many great songs.

Not my cup of tea... I made it through about 40 seconds and said, "That's enough."