D7200 or D7500?

This is less true, as I eventually worked out, for a camera with a smaller grip like the Df (or most compacts). With those, my fingers are curled at an angle

Right, this is one reason why I prefer the shallow grip (and I really like the Df's handling, reminiscent of the F3HP). However, even with a deep grip I let the fingers approach the grip in an angle. My knuckles are at a 45 degree angle compared to the camera body, my forefinger at 60 degrees perhaps and the other fingers at 30-40 degrees.

 

I prefer the shallower grip of the D810, D5, D3X whereas the deep grip of the D850 (or D750) is less comfortable. The D850 grip sort of forces my wrist to bend when the viewfinder is held to the eye. I wish they hadn’t done that. From what I understand people like the deep grip because it can be used as a carrying handle. But I'm mostly concerned with the ergonomics when actually shooting.

Edited December 22, 2017 by ilkka_nissila

Thanks, both.

 

Matthew - I have to say that it wasn't until I looked later that I realised my left hand was only using fingertips. That's unusual for me, and I guess related to the 24-120 being small (also I wasn't actually shooting) - I also have an L-plate on the camera, which makes it relatively back-heavy. With a short but heavier lens like, say, my 14-24 I certainly have my left hand more under the body (and I can roll the L plate onto it); for anything bigger, my hand is just on the lens. In this case, I think I'd have had my palm further back like you, but my belly was in the way. :-)

 

Oh... wait... After that detailed analysis, I've had another look at my photos, especially the top one. It turns out that I was rushing (because my wife didn't really want to take photos of me), and so I still have the lens cap in my left hand (rather than a pocket, where I usually put it). Hence the overloaded pair of fingers. I did say don't analyse that hand!

 

Ilkka: Thank you - that makes sense, from what you've been telling me. Although I still consider the D810 and D5 to have a "deep" grip compared with other bodies - I'm relatively comfortable with the camera hanging from my fingers (carefully). I've yet to see a D850 in the wild; I'll have to try the grip in case it cures my NAS.

 

On what I suppose is a related note, my biggest issue when shooting in portrait mode isn't the grip, it's that the strap almost inevitably falls across the finder. I should probably look at fixing that, but I've always been a bit wary of any strap attached to the tripod socket in case it unscrews itself.

With regard to the strap, I have partly solved that for many years with a Tamrac strap with quick releases. I know some people don't trust plastic buckles, but none of mine have ever failed in over a decade of use. When things get in the way I just take the strap off and am left with little stubs. With a little leftover stuff I made a wrist strap too, so under certain circumstances I can snap that in place instead of the neck strap.

 

With regard to the lens cap, I tend not to hold on to mine, preferring to lose them constantly instead. They usually turn up somewhere, but not always the same day.

Well, certainly the D5 and D810 have deeper grips than the Df or F3, but the D750 and D850 grip feels deeper (it might be that they are narrower and the shape difference is what I don’t like). I guess I’ll get used to it.

 

Quick and not very accurate measurements with a caliper: depth/thickness 27/32 (D850), 23/36 (D3X), 23/34 (D5).

The grip on the F3 does literally nothing for me; it might as well not be there at all. The main difference to current cameras is that with those small grips (or none at all), the camera's weight pretty much rests in the palm of the hand while the hands desperately try to "get a grip". Strangely enough, given the not very ergonomic looking grip of the MD-4 (for the F3), holding it minimizes the bend in my wrist compared to every other camera I tried (F100, D810, D500, Sony A7II); the same holds true though when holding the battery-gripped D500 compared to the D500 alone - so at least part of the might be due to the taller height when a motor drive/battery grip is mounted).

 

It appears that Nikon keeps changing the shape and depth of the grip with every new body; the D500's grip is definitely narrower and deeper than the D810's whereas the F100 is more in line with what I remember from the D200, D300, and D700 - not as deep but wider (the extreme here was the sheer volume of the F4 grip, no matter whether the MB-D20 or MB-D21 was fitted.

 

My knuckles are at a 45 degree angle compared to the camera body

Seems to be more in line with the way I hold the camera - certainly not nearly has aligned with the grip as Andrew's images show. I'd say my wrist is tilted about 30 degrees. Quite independent of whether I am holding the F100, D810, or D500 and certainly less when I am gripping the F3/MD-4 combo (or D500/MB-D17). With the external grip mounted on my Sony A7II the weird thing is that my wrist bends a tad more when holding the camera horizontal than holding it vertical. The main difference is that the camera's grip is shallow and broad whereas the battery grip is much narrower but deeper; the overall length seems to be about the same.

Well the D3, D4 and D5 are quite similar in grip shape (only relatively small differences between models).

 

The D750, D500 and D850 seem to have narrower and deeper grips.So it seems Nikon feel they’ve made an improvement and are putting the new grip shape into all bodies of this class. I disagree that it is an improvement but can live with it, grumbling a bit perhaps. I am pretty flexible and usually adopt to the new stuff after a bit of use. I read that the MB-D18 (vertical grip for the D850) does not share the deeper and narrower grip of the main body, which is good for me. However it appears the alignment stud is plastic in the grip and there is reportedly a bit of flex between the grip and body. This is not a good thing if true. The metal stud of the MB-D12 made the grip mount firmly to the D800/D810.

Edited December 22, 2017 by ilkka_nissila

Thanks again, Dieter and Ilkka. I was trying to work out how you were managing to hold the camera differently from me, given our different reports. I think I've got it, although I'll probably keep bending my wrist awkwardly. If I lose enough fat at some point that my palm gets thinner, all may change!

D3, D4 and D5 are quite similar in grip shape

I need to get in the habit of explicitly excluding those from my remarks as I have (except a one-time thing with the D4) no experience with them whatsoever.

The D750, D500 and D850 seem to have narrower and deeper grips

Indeed. IIRC, that goes for the D5600 too. Probably more comfortable when carrying the camera but not necessarily when operating it. Worst for me was the D7000; the D7100 and D7200 were markedly improved but nowhere near the D300. But hand size and shape differs so much between people that it's definitely hard to to right by all.

With regard to the strap, I have partly solved that for many years with a Tamrac strap with quick releases.

 

Some day I'll experiment with this technology. It's normally only the first time I switch to portrait orientation in a shoot that I get the strap in the way, and I don't shoot in portrait that often, but it's awfully good at happening. Fortunately I have bushy eyebrows, otherwise I'd have swiped myself in the eye more often.

 

With regard to the lens cap, I tend not to hold on to mine, preferring to lose them constantly instead. They usually turn up somewhere, but not always the same day.

 

Most lens caps I'm fairly good about attaching, with the occasional tendency to put them down and wander round a room, then hope they'll turn up before I have to leave - though I think I've lost at least one while abroad. Body caps and rear lens caps I'm forever losing.

 

The lens cap that always bothers me is the 14-24's push-on one. Given how often it's come off when I've been removing the lens from a bag, I have no understanding of how I've not managed to knock it off somewhere irretrievable yet. I've been to Capilano Suspension Bridge several times, and every time I'm terrified of dropping the cap over the edge.

 

The other annoying one is the Sigma 8mm, but that's a push-on which has a clip-on at the top for crop sensors - I keep forgetting and removing the front bit, then wonder why I've got a reduced circle with reflections all around. I think it was with my 8mm Peleng rather than this that I made the critical mistake of forgetting I'd not put the cap back on, then tried to remove it from the camera. Big, round front element, right in the sweaty palm of my hand. Followed by several minutes of scrubbing with a lens cloth. Sigh. I should probably never be allowed a 6mm, just in case.

I followed the early part of this thread, because I was deciding between a D7200 and a D7500 for my DX camer. In the midst of this "gripping" discussion, I chose the D7200, primarily because of the second card slot and the ability to meter with manual lenses. But there is another difference between these two bodies which, unless I missed it, hasn't been discussed. For those of us resisting the move to Photoshop CC for as long as we can, raw files from the D7200 will work with Photoshop CS6 whereas the D7500 will not.

My comment about the grip in general.

 

In my film days, cameras did not have grips.

So we had to support the camera with our left/support hand.

And life was good.

 

In the digital and later film days, cameras have grips.

But a new problem.

With a grip, you use it, sometimes too much.

So instead of supporting the camera from below with the left hand, people try to support the camera with their right hand, more than they should.

The problems is that the muscles of the finger are much smaller than the muscles of the arm, so it tires faster and injures easier.

 

Even back in the film days, I used a pistol grip under the body of the camera, when I shot football.

And IMHO, a good pistol grip, is still a good idea.

Apologies for my diversion, Hector. I'm glad you found a camera to suit you - I'm sure you'll be happy with it!

No need to apologize. It was a good discussion. I just wanted to touch on the original topic.

Same question came up elsewhere and I found this detailed comparison: Nikon D7500 vs D7200

 

I was very firmly in the camp recommending the D7200 over the D7500 - with the single card slot my biggest issue (kinda funny since not too long ago, all I had were cameras with single card slots and I still own one, the Sony A7II). But there are some features that may make the D7500 the better pick - which features are and aren't important is always rather subjective.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Dieter Schaefer

The lens cap that always bothers me is the 14-24's push-on one. Given how often it's come off when I've been removing the lens from a bag, I have no understanding of how I've not managed to knock it off somewhere irretrievable yet. I've been to Capilano Suspension Bridge several times, and every time I'm terrified of dropping the cap over the edge.

 

I've been considering putting some black vinyl tape on the inside of the cap to give it a bit more friction.

 

I've even entertained the thought of one of those elastic cap-keepers I normally detest. This is certainly one cap I don't want to be without, and I dread to think what Nikon would want for a replacement.

 

The 14mm 2.8 has a leatherette "sock" like super-teles usually have. Admittedly the 14mm doesn't have the "bulbous" element of the 14-24, but I'd have thought that a sock could be made to work. It would certainly stay in place better than the cheesy push-on cap that Nikon thinks is appropriate for a $2K lens.

Lens caps and I have a problematic relationship.

I want it to protect the lens in carry, but I do NOT want it on the lens when I'm shooting, as it just gets in the way.

So no elastic cap keepers. Also the stick on piece does not reliably stay stuck on the cap. Mine has popped off several times. Luckily at home or as I am putting the cap on or off, where I could find the cap.

 

I use blue painters tape to shim the inside of the push on caps. Warning. From having done this before, too much shimming of the cap will cause the cap to stretch when put on the lens, and eventually the sides of the cap will crack. So I consider plastic push-on lens caps to be disposable items, which need to be periodically replaced when it cracks.