D850 / Amazon Update

I tend to remember the D700's metering as being relatively good - but that might be through rose white-balanced glasses. (I've been critical of the D800 and D810 metering, especially the D810's "highlight metering" that still blows out large areas of image, but my D700 didn't get much use once I had the D800E.)

 

I switched from Canon to Nikon at the point when I was thinking of starting to spend proper money on photography (I had - still have - a budget Eos digital and my most expensive lens was the 70-300 IS [simpler times]); I was thinking of getting proper glass before a big holiday, and I'd been following rumours of a 5D update for some years, and been perpetually disappointed. I was mostly waiting for live view, since I shot more tilt-shift in those days. I eventually got frustrated enough at Canon that I decided to buy the D700 when it was launched, drawn partly by the 14-24 (good idea, give or take field curvature), 135 f/2 DC (terrible idea for me), and getting the 150-500 Bigma (not system-specific, but terrible anyway). I don't miss the f/1.2 lenses, but I have mild 200-400 f/4 IS envy. The 5D2 got announced too late for my holidays; I didn't really regret the decision, although I was absolutely expecting it to get the 1DsII 16MP sensor rather than the 1DsIII 22MP one, which gave me some pause.

 

I've been committed by my glass ownership since, although I've had no reason to regret my D8x0 ownership, partly because of the dynamic range advantage. The 5Dsr and 5D4 don't tempt me. Sony would have the advantage of allowing adapted lenses, although the experience is compromised.

 

I'm not in a huge hurry for Nikon to go mirrorless (although I do think it would be a sensible cost-saving measure for their lower end) - partly because the size advantage is barely there for decent FX glass. There are still advantages to both the optical finder and the separate AF system - although Fuji have shown a hybrid option for the former can be done (okay, not in an SLR, but I can think of at least ways to implement it) and I'd value the SLR/PDOS combination that Canon have, especially for video. Nikon could stop me worrying by implementing some of the set of features we've discussed in the past, which don't rely on mirrorless. They should do it to fill out their range (if they can work out how to adapt their lenses properly), but I don't yet buy that mirrorless is universally better.

If Nikon do have an MLC in development, then they'd do well to advertise the fact. Before every other camera company on the planet entices their customers away. I mean, if even Hasselblad thinks that MLCs are the future....

Nikon has already made it very clear that they are developing mirrorless cameras, besides the apparently failed attempt with the 1" Nikon 1 series. In fact, Nikon has made it clear that they are focusing on the high end, in both DLSRs and mirrorless:

 

• July 2017: Official statement: Nikon 'currently developing' new mirrorless cameras
  
• September 2017: Nikon Director of Development: 'If Nikon will go mirrorless, it must be full-frame'
  

Mirrorless is not panacea, but it can certainly complement DSLRs. Since Canon and Nikon have established SLR systems, they are no in a hurry to develop something to compete against themselves, but when the technology matures, they certainly will add in that area. For shooting sports and action, the mirror is posting some limitations.

Mirrorless

The suspense is killing me! Sony has set the bar fairly high by now and part of me is confident that Nikon can come out with something that raises it even further:)Another part, however, is afraid that Nikon might hit way off the mark:( Both have happened in the past; for Nikon’s sake, I’ll hope for a hit out of the park.

If the rumours are correct that Sony wanted Nikon to use the A7RII/III sensor but Nikon wanted their own, I hope the benefits (ISO 64 and full frame 4K?) were worth it compared to the lack of PDOS and higher ISO performance.

 

I don't think it's primarily a question of features or performance but independence of a single supplier of sensors, in particular one who is also a competitor. It is good that there are multiple (relatively) independent companies making sensors so that there is competition and prices stay reasonable and there is motivation to advance the state of the art. Nikon was first to commercialize OSPDAF but it is something Nikon seem reluctant to implement in their DSLRs; they say the reason is that there is still an image quality drawback (however small it may be) and obviously live view is the secondary and not primary mode of operation of a DSLR. For their mirrorless system, I am sure they will implement it, with a new lens lineup that is equipped with motors and optical designs that work well with mirrorless AF. I think the delay is in part due to the difficulty of making it work well with older AF lenses, and the challenge of making an impression in an established market as an outsider.

I have mild 200-400 f/4 IS envy

 

I think the Nikon 500/4 and 400/2.8 are better value than the Canon 200-400/4. The 500/4 FL is longer and lighter and some 1500€ less expensive, and to be honest what images from the Canon zoom I've seen, haven't really popped out as particularly spectacular in terms of image quality (to me they are reasonably sharp but "muted," which could be a result of the 25/20 (33/24 with extender) element/group optical design). To me the images from the Nikon nano-coated long primes seem more vivid and rich in colour than those from the Canon zoom. The 500/4 VR 1st version is available second hand for about half of the cost of the 200-400 extender. I do get the practical appeal of the zoom that covers 200mm to 560mm (with built in extender) but to my eye the output doesn't reflect the asking price in this case. I'm afraid a new Nikon 200-400/4 might be introduced in the same price class as the Canon and that would limit the potential buyers a lot. A lightly used VR 500/4G at half price is what I would get. I just am not quite ready for that yet; I'm convinced of the quality of the lens and its autofocus is excellent but I have had other expenses that get in the way.

 

I think the idea of purchasing into a new system, waiting for lenses to become available for it, and then spending the premium on new glass would all be over the top for me, and just a silent 20fps doesn't do it for me. I've figured out that for my style of photography I prefer single shots and occasionally use 8fps bursts, anything faster than that would just create more nearly identical frames to edit with little benefit.

Back in 2012, Nikon started shipping the D800 in March and the D800E about a month later in April. I waited for the early reviews for the D800E and determined that without the effect of a low-pass filter wasn't a concern, before I ordered one at my local store in mid April. It took two months before I got mine in mid June.

 

Back then I thought the D800 initial shortage was pretty serious, especially the D800E since it was only 10% of the total D800 production. I find it hard to believe that the D850 shortage is worse.

 

For those who want a D850 quickly, I would check with the smaller stores. Who knows how many people have placed multiple orders with Amazon, B&H, Adorama ... and expect just one from whichever is the fastest? There is going to be massive cancellations later on.

 

Good point Shun, I didn't consider the cancellation cases. I decide already to upgrade my equipment to the new D850

I did just that, shun :) my thought process also the same; since I heard several of my friends (out of state) were getting theirs from their local camera shops pretty quickly. So after placing my order at B&H a few days after the announcement -- and waited, and waited -- I decided to put my name on the wait-list at my local shop. At that time (mid November) they said I would be #13 on the list -- had no idea how far down the bottom of the barrel I was at B&H -- and was not sure how they were determining who would get the first ones after the 'Nikon members' were taken care of first. Well, like a couple waiting to have a baby and deciding to adopt - only to find out they are pregnant - within a few days after placing my other order, I get the notice from B&H mine is on its way!! I can't report how it is yet because I then had look through the manual in order to buy approved memory cards and all the other essentials. :) Edited December 2, 2017 by d_ponce

I have been quietly following the news and discussions about the D850. I'm in Tokyo and I wandered into Bic Camera at Shibuya this afternoon. To my surprise, they had the D850 in stock. They said they only had one unit available. I'm not sure if that was really the case, but now they don't have that one for sure, since I took possession of it. Maybe the next person that walks in to inquire will also be told they only have one. I was going to wait until the initial frenzy dies down, but since I was sure I would buy one sooner or later, I might as well make it sooner, and hey, Merry Christmas to myself, if I have to spend it working, away from my family. It's going to be a couple more days before I have access to my computer, but I'm really looking forward to it.

raczoliver, you should have told them at Bic Camera that you wanted two D850 and see whether they would suddenly be able to produce a second one. :)

 

As far as I can tell, the D850 shortage has eased; sometimes the wait with Amazon is fairly short although it is not in stock yet. Some local camera stores also have short queues. However, the shortage has lasted a month or two longer than what I had expected.

 

So far I am quite happy with the D850. However, the RAW files for 45MP are huge. I have also captured some 4K video, and those video files are huge also. All of a sudden those 128G XQD cards don't seem to have as much capacity any more.

Edited December 24, 2017 by ShunCheung

They're in stock at the larger UK camera stores. Merry Christmas to anyone who's picked one up (okay, and the rest of you!) - I'm going to wait a few paycheques but I'll get there soon

I waited 8 years with the d700 can wait a few more months. In the mean time, a d500 has been an eye opener from the d700. I haven't bothered to calibrate it to my sekonic meter, but I am constantly surprised about being able to keep everything in the histogram that I know would require some blocking or poor blacks on the d700. The 24 mp is plenty for portraits but for birds I expect nearly doubling the pixels will be visible. I doubled from d700 to d500 and it was significant. Can anyone comment on how the tonal transitions compare to say MF black and white film?

The D850 is an awesome camera. A must have that will work its way into a long future. I see no aberrations with this camera, Nikon knocked it out of the park with this one!