The Bronica S2 use Nikkor P lenses. What is a Nikkor P lens?

Does it have the same mount as modern Nikkor SLR lenses?

Does this mean I can use some of my Nikon SLR lenses with an S2?

TIA!

Ray

They're not at all related to F-mount lenses for Nikon SLRs.

The Nikkor P lenses do not have an integral focus helical-they attach to the one in the body via a bayonet mount.

MOST 35mm Nikkor lenses will not cover medium format. The notable exception to this that I know of is the 135mm(13,5 cm) rangefinder lens made for the reflex housing for those same cameras. There was an adapter that would allow you to mount this lens, but it's rare as hen's teeth and also doesn't even mount on the S2 body. From my perspective also, it's kind of a pointless adapter since the 13,5cm RF lens is quite expensive, while it's not that difficult to find or expensive for the P mount. While we're at it, I also find it a bit lacking in performance vs. the other P mount lenses I have.(BTW, if anyone wants/needs one of the rare as hen's teeth Nikon to Bronica adapters, PM me :) ).

Nikkor P lenses should not be confused with the modern AFS P lenses

The latter are for use on DX and FX DSLR's and have an according image/lens circle (for FX max 43 mm, for DX even less)

which obviously isn't wide enough for use on a medium format camera (which also disqualifies older manual focus Ai en AiS lenses)

The original Nikkor P lenses were manual focus lenses made by Nikon specifically for use on medium format camera's like Plaubel and Zenza Bronica, similar to the Nikkor SW lenses intended for use in large format camera's (Nikon was a lens manufacturer to begin with after all)

Zenza Bronica was, or at least intended to be a competitor with Hasselblad in the 60s to (in my opinion) 80's

On one side they were more attractive due to the lower price point (since eg the S2 had a focal plane shutter in the body, the lenses didn't need a leaf shutter which would otherwise have made them more costly, like the Hasselblad ones)

But on the other hand a bit more quircky and prone to heavy 2nd hand price depreciation

The latter was a major consideration for me when I stepped in medium format in the early 80's, since I could expect a better price if ever I decided to sell my Hasselblad set (never did, it's collecting dust in the back of my closet for literallly several decades now :( )

Despite that they constantly made improvements, in the end they clearly lost the battle and basically ceased activities in the mid 2000's

Nikon medium format lenses

The P suffix has nothing to do with the Bronica mount. For their early camera lenses, Nikon used a series of letter suffixes to signify the number of elements used in the design.

T = 3

Q = 4

P = 5

H = 6

S = 7

O = 8

N = 9

D = 10

Beyond that combinations of D and other letters were used, although those early lenses rarely went beyond 10 elements. The letters were derived from the initial letter of the Latin word for the relevant number.

Therefore any Nikkor-P lens has 5 elements in its design. Regardless of whether it fits a 35mm camera or the Bronica. The additional "C" suffix indicates a multicoated lens.

There are S-2 fit 50mm Nikkor-O and 135mm Nikkor-Q lenses as well. See this page.

Incidentally, Nikon LF lenses were not just "SW", which stands for Super Wide. They produced a "W" (wide), "M" (medium) and "T" (telephoto) series as well. The W series were actually the standard LF lenses, since LF use requires a wide image circle to allow lens movements - rise, tilt, etc. The range covered 65mm to 600mm IIRC.

Interesting. Well I'm now in the market for an MF camera and have been reviewing the various formats, available camera brands making bodies for the various formats and the available lenses for each brand's body.

I love my S2a(I also have a C, which is a stripped down body without a removable back) but honestly I'd suggest avoiding it as a medium format system.

The focal plane shutter is nice and allows the S2 body to have a 1/1000 max shutter speed. The fastest you'll typically find on a leaf shutter is 1/500, and sometimes slower(most of the RB67 lenses are that way). In addition, they have an instant return mirror, something that you don't see on a lot of MF SLRs.

With that said, they are mechanically quite complicated. The mirror moves down, not up. This means it needs to have auxiliary baffles to cover both the mirror and the focusing screen to keep light from bouncing around in the mirror box. There's a lot happening there-most controlled by cables-to go wrong and there aren't a lot of people who will even touch them. The Ss were known to have issues with the film advance gear stripping-I THINK this was fixed on the S2, or at least it doesn't seem to come up as often.

I was fortunate to be able to buy a reasonably complete system fairly inexpensively, and I bought it because it came with a 50mm, 135mm, and 150mm lens along with a whole lot of accessories(including prisms). I wouldn't want to use it as my main camera, though.

I

n addition to the above, these cameras have the worst mirror slap/vibration I've ever experienced on an SLR. The focal plane shutter has a fairly slow sync speed-I think 1/30 of a second. If there is a way to operate the camera without film, I've yet to find it. I spooled up a roll of backing paper to "trick" it and test the oepration, but that's as close as I've been able to get to dry firing(and it didn't let me watch the shutter). Bought individually, basic accessories like lenses and film backs can be pricey. The camera is HEAVY-with a waste level finder and 75mm lens, it weighs about as much as my RB-67 with a metered prism(that prism alone weighs 2 lbs) and a 127mm lens. The RB67 weighs less with a 90mm lens and waist level.

If you want 6x6, I would very much encourage you to look at the later Bronica SQ system. This is a camera that is operationally very similar to the Hasselblad 500 series, albeit they a fair bit "cheaper" feeling than the Hasselblad(although they are still plenty durable). These are much newer than the S series, and you can probably get a basic system(SQ-A body, waist level finder, 80mm lens, and 120 back) for $300 or so. The camera IS electronic, which scares some folks(the SQ-A uses a PX28, while the newer SQ-Ai uses 4xLR44). I've had the same battery in my SQ-A for nearly two years now. The Seiko shutters hold their time well, and you do have an "emergency" 1/500 mechanical speed. Lenses and film backs are relatively easy to find, and they are also inexpensive compared to their Hasselblad counterparts. The lens price difference becomes even more dramatic as you step further from the standard 80mm lens. Zenzanon lenses are excellent. I have a "speed grip" on mine-this adds a large hand grip off to the side with a hot shoe on top and advances the film/resets the camera with a lever rather than a crank(two strokes of the lever). It makes the camera so handy off the tripod(without impairing it on the tripod) that I can't stand to remove it.

For a 645 system, most of the above about the SQ is also true of the Bronica ETR system except that components mostly are even less expensive.

I'm relatively new to the 6x7 format in general and the Mamiya RB67 system, but it is superb. Although it's really meant to be a tripod camera, it can be handheld. The mirror dampening truly amazes me, as I feel almost nothing from the huge flipping up. RB stands for "rotating back" and for a camera this large it's nice to be able to change the orientation without turning the camera. Of course, in 6x6 you don't have to worry about any rotation :) . In any case, the RB67 system is a fair bit more expensive than the Bronicas mentioned above, although it's still far away from Hasselblad prices. The system is quite comprehensive. In addition to 120 and 220 6x7 backs, I know that Mamiya at least made a 645 back(I have one). The rotating back uses the standard Graflock system, which opens up a lot of possibilities. I have used Graphic 22(6x6) holder on mine, and Graflex made roll film back as large as roughly 6x8. You can fit a back that will allow you to use holders for sheet film or plates.

Hmm, I didn't realize it's the weight of the RB67! Wow, that one along with it's sibling RZ67 are monster sized LOL. I would like a 'blad' camera but like many really can't afford them especially when I'd want to pair with with a 30 or 40mm lenses which are so very expensive! So I was compromising by exploring the Bronica's. I'm also considering the Bronica GS1 since a wide lens is definitely available for just a few hundred as well as the Pentax 67 although it's SLR on Steroids look is something i definitely need to get used to.

No, these are not my primary camera. I am shooting film because it's easy enough to develop now. I shoot primarily digital (Nikon D300s/500) with a plethora of lenses.

My "primary system" comment was related to it being(or not being) your primary MF system. Granted there's no reason you can't have more than one MF system or 35mm system for that matter, although if you're not going to jump whole-hog into MF like I did a couple of years ago it's wise to invest in one system. Granted I'm a fine one to talk, as I have something resembling a system in Canon FD mount, Canon EOS, Nikon F, and LTM in 35mm/APS-C, and then the S, SQ, and RB67 system. I also have a couple of Rolleiflexes(yes, I really like 6x6).

Just to be clear on the size/weight comment on the S system-the bodies and backs are Hasselblad-sized and the lenses are actually quite small since they lack a shutter and focusing helicoid. The thing is a solid chunk of metal.

The GS-1 never seemed to really catch on like the other Bronica systems. The "manual of arms"(to borrow a firearm term) is more or less the same for it as the SQ and ETR, but you don't see a lot for sale. The cameras themselves are hard enough to find, much less additional lenses. If you want 6x7 and don't have mountains of money, the Pentax 67 and RB67 are your best option. I'm not as familiar with the Pentax system, but I've mentioned above why I like the RB system. If I had plenty of money lying around, I'd love to have a Mamiya 7 and a 43mm lens, but they bring serious cash even on the used market.

I had a thread not too long ago on ultra-wide 6x6 lenses. The widest available is the Zeiss 38mm, which is a fantastic lens but again it's very pricey. I think it also requires a special body and external finder. The widest common 6x6 lenses are 40mm. We won't go there on the Hasselblad, but KEH generally gets about $250 for the Zenzanon for the SQ. For the S system, the 40mm Nikkor runs about $250 and the Zenzanon about $400. The 50mm SQ lens runs around $100. I've never priced a Nikkor for the S since my system came with one, but I'd guess it's around the same(I think the hood is somewhat tough to find, and it's an absolute necessity since the lens is a flare monster).

You can get 645s as wide as 28mm, although I don't know what they are offhand.

Also, bear in mind when you're comparing focal lengths to 35mm/APS-C that it's difficult to make a direct comparison since the aspect ratio for the common formats is different from the 2:3 aspect ratio of 35mm. A lot of charts will look at diagonal angle of view, which to me is a pretty meaningless comparison. I generally look at horizontal angle of view, although for non-square formats the vertical angle of view is useful for vertical images. Using the horizontal equivalent, a 40mm is about 25mm on both 645 and 6x6. For 6x7, 40mm(not sure if one exists) is about the same horizontal angle of view as 20mm in 35mm.

Here's the best chart I've found

http://rabinergroup.com/pdfs/LensangleofviewtableLong.pdf

 

In addition to the above, these cameras have the worst mirror slap/vibration I've ever experienced on an SLR. The focal plane shutter has a fairly slow sync speed-I think 1/30 of a second. If there is a way to operate the camera without film, I've yet to find it. I spooled up a roll of backing paper to "trick" it and test the oepration, but that's as close as I've been able to get to dry firing(and it didn't let me watch the shutter).

On an S2a, remove the film back and then you can cock and fire the shutter (and watch the shutter). Unlike later leaf-shutter Bronicas you can remove the back whether or not the shutter is cocked. The body/film back interface mechanism on an S2a can detect the film advanced/shutter cocked state of the two pieces and then only perform the required action when the winding knob is wound. For example, if a back with unadvanced film is mounted on a body with a cocked shutter, winding the knob will only advance the film. Likewise, if a back with film advanced to the next unexposed frame is mounted on a body with an uncocked shutter, winding the knob will only cock the shutter.

On an S2a, remove the film back and then you can cock and fire the shutter (and watch the shutter). Unlike later leaf-shutter Bronicas you can remove the back whether or not the shutter is cocked. The body/film back interface mechanism on an S2a can detect the film advanced/shutter cocked state of the two pieces and then only perform the required action when the winding knob is wound. For example, if a back with unadvanced film is mounted on a body with a cocked shutter, winding the knob will only advance the film. Likewise, if a back with film advanced to the next unexposed frame is mounted on a body with an uncocked shutter, winding the knob will only cock the shutter.

I had that thought after I'd posted the above.

Unfortunately, I can't remove my film back now as I don't have a dark slide-I have one on the way from from Serbia(Ebay special reproduction). My camera only came with one back and no dark slide, although it had just about every imaginable accessory under the sun(50mm, 2x75mm, 13,5cm, and 150mm along with hoods, the speed focusing handle, the really nice t/s macro bellows, a set of extension tubes, and even two of the Nikon to Bronica adapters).

I also have a C that came with the above kit. The C is the "budget" model that doesn't have interchangable backs and also only has a 1/500 max shutter speed. It is fully functional without film loaded.

The P suffix has nothing to do with the Bronica mount. For their early camera lenses, Nikon used a series of letter suffixes to signify the number of elements used in the design.

T = 3

Q = 4

P = 5

H = 6

S = 7

O = 8

N = 9

D = 10

Beyond that combinations of D and other letters were used, although those early lenses rarely went beyond 10 elements. The letters were derived from the initial letter of the Latin word for the relevant number.

 

Therefore any Nikkor-P lens has 5 elements in its design. Regardless of whether it fits a 35mm camera or the Bronica. The additional "C" suffix indicates a multicoated lens.

 

There are S-2 fit 50mm Nikkor-O and 135mm Nikkor-Q lenses as well. See this page.

 

Incidentally, Nikon LF lenses were not just "SW", which stands for Super Wide. They produced a "W" (wide), "M" (medium) and "T" (telephoto) series as well. The W series were actually the standard LF lenses, since LF use requires a wide image circle to allow lens movements - rise, tilt, etc. The range covered 65mm to 600mm IIRC.

Ah, I see. I wasn’t sure how they designated which mount a lens is for. So I'm still not clear how I can id a Nikkor lens that will fit the Bronica or other body mount?

On an S2a, remove the film back and then you can cock and fire the shutter (and watch the shutter). Unlike later leaf-shutter Bronicas you can remove the back whether or not the shutter is cocked. The body/film back interface mechanism on an S2a can detect the film advanced/shutter cocked state of the two pieces and then only perform the required action when the winding knob is wound. For example, if a back with unadvanced film is mounted on a body with a cocked shutter, winding the knob will only advance the film. Likewise, if a back with film advanced to the next unexposed frame is mounted on a body with an uncocked shutter, winding the knob will only cock the shutter.

Interesting to know should I end up buying an S2a. :)

...Unfortunately, I can't remove my film back now as I don't have a dark slide-...

Please excuse my ignorance but are these not readily available or easily made?

Please excuse my ignorance but are these not readily available or easily made?

The dark slide is a piece of sheet metal, although it does have some special cut-outs in it to engage various camera mechanisms.

I bought a repro for a few bucks from Serbia. It doesn't have the wire handle of the originals, but I'm hoping it will be functional. Unfortunately, it was sent registered mail and I got a pink slip when they came to deliver today. I'm going to try to trek to the PO tomorrow, although it's not the easiest thing for me to do as it's in the opposite direction from where I work and I have about an hour from the time I get off work until they close.

Have it here now-such a hassle for a piece of stamped metal :) . I'm going to have to take some sandpaper to it because the cuts are rough. Still, it beats paying $30+ for an original.

BTW, now that I have it installed, I can't figure out the thing is supposed to come off!

As a side note, here's a good portion of the line-up of Nikkor lenses for these cameras. Offhand, I'm missing the 40mm and the 200mm. But, right to left is the 150mm, 135mm, 75mm, and 50mm(with what I'm told is the rare original hood).

And here are two the rare Nikon mount adapters-which I don't think even fit the S2(at least I'm too stupid to figure it out if they do)

BTW, now that I have it installed, I can't figure out the thing is supposed to come off!

Hi, I presume you are saying that you can't remove the magazine? The routine is to press in on the upper part of the dark slide - with perhaps several pounds of pressure you should feel it go in a little farther, perhaps an eighth of an inch or so. While holding it in, the top part of the magazine is released.

See this thread: Dark slide will not remove Bronica S2 back?

Hi, I presume you are saying that you can't remove the magazine? The routine is to press in on the upper part of the dark slide - with perhaps several pounds of pressure you should feel it go in a little farther, perhaps an eighth of an inch or so. While holding it in, the top part of the magazine is released.

 

See this thread: Dark slide will not remove Bronica S2 back?

Thanks-I did figure it out after reading the above by(horror of horrors) reading the manual.

I HAVE to get an original, though. As you said, it takes a decent amount of force to push it in, and this Serbian reproduction could probably slice your thumb off. The photos I've seen of originals look like the end is a lot like a dark slide on an LF film holder-i.e. with a "rolled" end attached and a wire loop to help pull it out.

I have a couple of 4x5 holders that are junk and need to be trashed, like one that I can't load film in without it buckling. Maybe I'll try trimming down one of those dark slides. It shouldn't be TOO much trouble with a jeweler's saw, and one of the benefits of being a watchmaker is that I actually know how to file sharp corners with a good finish on them :)

 

As a side note, here's a good portion of the line-up of Nikkor lenses for these cameras. Offhand, I'm missing the 40mm and the 200mm. But, right to left is the 150mm, 135mm, 75mm, and 50mm(with what I'm told is the rare original hood

Hi again all.

I've been shooting with my S2 for a few months now and absolutely love it.

I recently found a Nikkor 50mm f/3.5 lens for just $60 but alas it was sans hood.

I thought I found a hood for it for just $30 shipped but it was only ~82mm wide where it goes over the lens which if you've measured you know the lens is much bigger than that... so I'm still on the hunt for that rare hood you mentioned Ben.

Are there's any identifying markings on your hood Ben?

Also, any idea which lens this hood would be for?

TIA!

Hi, I presume you are saying that you can't remove the magazine? The routine is to press in on the upper part of the dark slide - with perhaps several pounds of pressure you should feel it go in a little farther, perhaps an eighth of an inch or so. While holding it in, the top part of the magazine is released.

 

See this thread: Dark slide will not remove Bronica S2 back?

What Bill said. Opens fine when I do this on mine...