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Leica 60mm Macro F2.8 3 Cam in Ambient Light


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<p>I like to ask some help from you as I never play with Macro Lens before. I recently bought a used 3 Cam version. It performs very well in normal distance from 0.7m to infinity.<br>

However, when shooting macro, as distance getting down to 1:3, a strange problem occurs: a white spot is in the middle of the frame. The smaller the aperture, the problem seems more apparent. And getting closer to 1:2, the problem seems worse. <br /> <br />Take a look of the photos I shot with my 5D Mark II (F18, with tripod, ambient light). I also tested with another adapter ring and my Canon 50D. The problem is the same. I wonder if you know the answer.<img src="http://picasaweb.google.com/roger.qiu/LeicaExperience#5492912365021887122" alt="" /><br>

Thanks a lot.</p><div>00WqaQ-259161584.thumb.jpg.d36fd0b005712776f9a4c4650073500d.jpg</div>

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<p>Martin,<br>

Thanks. Today I put a black roll around the lens's front, the flair goes much small. I think it is the problem of some elements of the glass. When using Macro, the front elements reach out, in small aperture, there might be some sort of reflection inside the lens going on. This is a 30 years old lens. I also found some oil on the blade, though not much.<br>

Another question, when you shoot Macro without the adapter, how close you get to the subject? This lens's manual indicates 27cm. Meaning 27 cm from subject to front of lens or the sensor?<br>

One more question: the outside dial of the lens in green, is that for 1:1 after putting an adapter?<br>

Thanks again.</p>

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<p>The green scale is the scale to use with the adapter. The minimum distance of every lens is measured from the film/sensor plane.<br>

That white spot is right in the middle of the frame and suspiciously round. Are you sure the lens is clean and the sensor is clean? Look through the lens. If it looks clean then its not the lens. Maybe theres some weird flare going on from the sensor? Shoot a different picture in different lighting to see what happens. The 60/2.8 has deeply recessed elements and that does not change with focus distance. It is likely not lens flare. Sensor flare maybe. Lens separation and dirt etc that will affect your image quality will be very apparent to anyone looking at the lens.</p>

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<p>Chuk,<br /> Thanks. "Are you sure the lens is clean and the sensor is clean?" I think it is clean. But I notice some oil on back side of the blades. It should not be sensor flare as I used a 50d and 5d, same problem.<br /> This morning I put a black tube put in front of the lens. And the flair goes smaller but at F16 or smaller, still very apparent.<br /> Take a look of another photo I took outside. It is around F4 or F5.6 in shadow.<br /> I guess maybe the coating problem. However, it is so strange that from 1:4 and further, the phenomenon does not exist.</p><div>00Wqvl-259423784.jpg.4515d1e7c848c302f950a44c724ab5cd.jpg</div>
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<p>It is too dark to make clear photo on the glass now. I am quite sure it is not the problem of the filters. I tried it on or off. Same problem. The flair is very clear when shooting live view. I am pretty sure it is the reflection of one of the glass that bounce this unwanted light onto the sensor.<br>

I check the glasses, with several specks of dust but it should not be the cause.</p>

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<p>OK, a bit more research has revealed that this is indeed the reflections off the sensor onto the rear element and onto the sensor again. At macro distances (as you found out) the lens gets a bigger image circle and so a lot of the light is scattered around the "film" chamber. This apparently gets bounced around creating "digital flare" or what I called sensor flare. The effect gets more noticeable as you stop down, as you also found out. Apparently this only happens with some lenses, so I guess the ME60 is one of those lenses.<br>

Test this theory out by taking pictures at normal distances outside. This is strange because there are many reports of people using this lens on digicams (especially Pentax) with no problems... I use mine on film :)</p>

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<p>In theory, you are right. And I believe so. I might have found a solution. I stick a 1.5 inch black textile ring in front of the lens, and the flair is gone. It does not bother when I take close up. So I think I just need to buy a longer hood for it and the problem may be gone.<br>

Thanks so much, in going manual it is so many to learn!</p>

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<p>I've seen & repaired <strong>this exact </strong>symptom from these 60mm Macro lenses.</p>

<p>It occurs because of faint haze that has formed inside the rear lens group. Do the <a href="http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/flashlight-test.htm">Flashlight test</a>, and you'll see what I'm talking about. <strong>Get it cleaned </strong>and the Leica performance will return... </p>

 

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<p>Its not just with this lens. There are many cases on the net where this is documented with different lens and camera combinations.</p>

<p>For example:<br>

http://forum.manualfocus.org/viewtopic.php?pid=130775<br>

http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/93388-tamron-esp-adaptall-90mm-owners-ccd-flare.html<br>

http://www.fmount.com/forums/showthread.php?t=413</p>

<p>It most probably will not happen with a film camera.</p>

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<p>Chuk, those are different from this case with Roger's lens, this because his "flare" is quite diffused, bright & hazy.</p>

<p>The two article items you noted were internal reflection flare. Somewhat defined and colored. Symptomatic of flat rear elements reflecting on to the digital sensor filter. (The image I provided shows a <strong>very</strong> curved Leica 60mm Macro)</p><div>00WrYq-260031584.JPG.a52e62bdf3d1aa28ad8df9a1fe245779.JPG</div>

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<p>Chuk, thanks for the post of the two articles. I think it is more an easy case for me now. While I have done the flash test, I found dust, some, not, guessing maybe 100 or so but really tiny and no scratch at all.<br>

Then I do a test. DIY and the problem is gone. The method is to put a wrist ring in front of the lens when shooting macro. The photos I am going to post is shot F11, ISO 400, Canon 50D. The photo showing the lens at work via iPhone.<br>

I believe it is the same problem as the two articles stated. I also wonder why the Leica 60mm got a deep circular front shape. I guess it is an anti-flair design but maybe it is so old now and some of the coating not work no more and cause the problem. When shooting film, it might not exist for Leica's R series cameras, I guess.</p>

<p> </p><div>00Wrap-260059584.jpg.d2d577d18bce51ea5a9d8574f418fe3c.jpg</div>

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<blockquote>

<p>Roger stated: "it is an anti-flair design but maybe it is so old now and some of the coating not work no more and cause the problem"</p>

</blockquote>

<p><strong>Sorry, but that isn't logical.</strong></p>

<ol>

<li>The deep recessed design of the optics is typical of "flat field" lenses. It's a natural and very effective hood.</li>

<li>The thought that it's the sensor reflection flare is <strong>also incorrect</strong>; your 60mm lens will also flare <strong>with FILM</strong>.</li>

<li>Your "wrist ban" hood though creative, is just a coincidence. The angle of the subject light/highlight reflection seems to make this symptom show up sporadically in these haze laden lenses.</li>

</ol>

<p>I know this because I experienced it for myself on my own "aged" Leica 60mm f/2.8 Macro lens... </p>

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<p>I'm not saying you're wrong Gus but here is another link to a Pentax forum where the poster has tried with many lenses (which have curved rear elements) and it produces a colourless spot in the middle which gets more defined as the lens is stopped down, just like Roger has experienced.<br>

<a href="http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/100056-bright-spot-macros.html">http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/100056-bright-spot-macros.html</a><br>

One of the responses claims he experienced the same problem when his dog slobbered over his lens.<br>

Others experienced similar problems with other lenses.<br>

Do you have haze in your lens Roger?</p>

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<p>Chuk, I read the pentaxforums. I check the lens, I can not say it is no haze but I think it is not apparent. I am still guessing. As you say, it is the sensor flare causing the problem. When using my wrist band method, it make sure only the light of the subject is directed thru the aperture hole. Without the wrist band (or a hood), light may enter from the font elements and get through around the aperture hole. Or, the wrist band just block the reflection of the front glass element.</p>

<p> </p>

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  • 7 years later...

I have suffered exactly the same problem with my Macro Elmarit 60mm on a Sony A7ii as you did with your 5D and found it was caused by an internal reflection in the lens barrel parts when extended for macro zone in combination with aperture blades oil glare. I decided to send it to a repair house as soon as I found the phenomenon present in film with my Leica R 6. By cleaning the blades and painting all the possible internal parts of the barrel in matte black, the problem has gone. (I was not able to detect which of the two was more relevant for the white spot problem).

<p>In theory, you are right. And I believe so. I might have found a solution. I stick a 1.5 inch black textile ring in front of the lens, and the flair is gone. It does not bother when I take close up. So I think I just need to buy a longer hood for it and the problem may be gone.<br>

Thanks so much, in going manual it is so many to learn!</p>

 

DSC07204.thumb.JPG.ac2efa90c028a12568c099ac03e54af7.JPG

Edited by jomocovi
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