What do you actually need to process B&W Negs?

Upon the stainless steel stuff: It seems a taste to acquire in my book; i.e. I can't handle those reels happily and prefer Jobo's plastic ones anytime. Caveat of plastic: they have to be dry. Amateur reality: There were tanks for 5 or 2 rolls at once. If I shot more, it could wait till the next day, when the plastic reels were dry again.

I see no real advantage of being able to reuse a reel quickly (outside a pro-lab setting). - Film became more expensive, we are just processing our own and if we really have to pick half a dozen uber-keepers among 370 frames, to deliver them the next morning, why not go fully digital for such gigs?

I rather spend a bit of time scrubbing stains from plastic reels or tanks than more time cleaning up a mess.

Jobo processors seem convenient and nice to have. - I did a lot of pushing HP5 in Microphen 1+3 at 45 minutes. - Nice to not need to touch tanks to agitate them or to get away with a bit less chemistry in use. + the additional benefits of consistency and temperature control. - You can of course pick another favorite developer when you are agitating by hand and there must be enough solutions that work at cozy room temperatures. Kodak recommended 24°C for T-Max in T-Max soup and I didn't try it at lower temperatures.

There are daylight loading tanks like Agfa Rondinax. But they require you to leave the leader sticking out of your cartridge when you rewind. - Not that easy to do. The Rondinax also needs you to spin the reel inside for agitation. Shaking a tank seems easier to me.

I think it is cheaper to buy a changing bag than to build a real darkroom in which you could handle fast film. (I never had one. - I assume making a door light tight at it's bottom takes a toll? - Depending on with whom you live relying on the night to keep things dark in front of a not entirely light tight door is a bad idea.) Getting a room dark enough for printing is much easier!

As with all these posts, this is JMHO.......A scanner.? Then print it how.?

I love to see people continue to buy film, it helps me in a manner of speaking, but.......

In all seriousness, if you are going to scan, i do not see the point in shooting film.

The reason to shoot film is so you can print, Especially B&W.....unless you are of the opinion that film "Looks Better" than a digitally shot, circa 35mm frame.?

good luck

I'm sure you're in the minority in that you've done a lot of film processing in hotels. I suspect the OP will be doing this at home, like the great majority of us, where control of light is pretty easy. I'm curious, why does it take you 10-15 min to load a roll or two of film onto a reel? The only time I use a light bag is when I'm loading 4x5 film into holders in the field.

OK, fair observations and questions. I may be a minority for hotels--but certainly not dealing with bathrooms and makeshift darkroom arrangements. Hotels are relatively easy--bathrooms are windowless and one usually only has to deal with light leaks around the door frame sides and bottom. Real bathrooms, kitchens, and laundry rooms pose a multitude of light leak issues. Even with the best of efforts, I would confidently offer that the MAJORITY of us conducted our adventures after dark-thirty.

Time? It is demonstrated that the OP has ZERO skills or experience in any sort of self-executed film development. This is not a problem, as all of us started at that point at one time. Just how fast were you in opening your first canister, trimming the leader, attaching the end to a spike in the center of a stainless Nikor equivalent, effecting a perfect curve, and rolling the spool until complete, detaching from the spool, and closing up the top? Or in a similar vein, starting the roll between the bearings of a Paterson type tank and ratcheting it perfectly until loaded? Dexterity comes with experience--and there are always those instances that the damned things simply will not cooperate or become creased.

I can load multiple rolls of 120 or 35mm in that window--or a Combi-Plan with 6 sheets of LF. But I also have been doing this for 50 years. A lot is learned about human behavior and capabilities in that time... :D

Many of us learned long ago with minimal tools. Changing bag? Where exactly would one get such a thing--and fact is that the availability was so scarce most had never heard of such a thing. Others made due with discarded dark boxes that had worn out from radiology work. I am pretty sure that even Spirotone did not offer the option of buying one.

This is not true now. So, at the cheap and plentiful price point available now--why in the name of the deity of your choice would you want to play all the games of blocking out windows, working in the dead of night, and so on and so forth--when you can have a safe and perfect outcome in ordinary conditions on your kitchen counter where you are going to process? We need suggest no fiery hoops or arcane and laborious endeavors as a matter of "a rite of passage" to those seeking entry to the realm of film and wet chemistry. Rather, with what things are now, let's run with process that makes it ever more convenient and enjoyable than we may have experienced! :cool:

I suspect the OP won't be processing at 78F as he is just starting out and will likely stay in the 68F range, like most of us do most of the time. Water at tap temp in most places will be perfectly fine for film (though I always use stop bath for prints). Perhaps we can better tailor this discussion if the OP can provide additional details about his working environment.

I am to understand that he lives in Britain. Perhaps the water runs nicely at that temperature, and that the climate is also that temperature. Control of this variable is difficult for beginners--and we can preach up Styrofoam containers, ice additions, mixers, and a panoply of other methodologies. These also take experience and FINESSE for them to behave appropriately. From the literature, anecdotal reports, and practical exper Super duper if he has readily available cool water, cool atmospherics, so on and so forth. Most of us live in the real world, and I have never had stabilized 68 degree temps outside of a HVAC controlled darkroom space with available water cooling/valve mixing on the flow cycle.

Never did I state or infer that 78 was a temperature to target--or would be experienced by the OP. Yet, this can happen--and even be chose for a variety of processing rubrics. Rather, it is at that temperature metol/hydroquinone really jumps out of the barn. A few degrees one way or another substantially changes the dev time. This FP4 chart is an example:

https://www.ilfordphoto.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Temperature-compensation-chart.pdf

As with all these posts, this is JMHO.......A scanner.? Then print it how.?

I love to see people continue to buy film, it helps me in a manner of speaking, but.......

In all seriousness, if you are going to scan, i do not see the point in shooting film.

The reason to shoot film is so you can print, Especially B&W.....unless you are of the opinion that film "Looks Better" than a digitally shot, circa 35mm frame.?

good luck

I suspect it is more about using film cameras.

OK, fair observations and questions. I may be a minority for hotels--but certainly not dealing with bathrooms and makeshift darkroom arrangements. Hotels are relatively easy--bathrooms are windowless and one usually only has to deal with light leaks around the door frame sides and bottom. Real bathrooms, kitchens, and laundry rooms pose a multitude of light leak issues. Even with the best of efforts, I would confidently offer that the MAJORITY of us conducted our adventures after dark-thirty.

 

Time? It is demonstrated that the OP has ZERO skills or experience in any sort of self-executed film development. This is not a problem, as all of us started at that point at one time. Just how fast were you in opening your first canister, trimming the leader, attaching the end to a spike in the center of a stainless Nikor equivalent, effecting a perfect curve, and rolling the spool until complete, detaching from the spool, and closing up the top? Or in a similar vein, starting the roll between the bearings of a Paterson type tank and ratcheting it perfectly until loaded? Dexterity comes with experience--and there are always those instances that the damned things simply will not cooperate or become creased.

 

I can load multiple rolls of 120 or 35mm in that window--or a Combi-Plan with 6 sheets of LF. But I also have been doing this for 50 years. A lot is learned about human behavior and capabilities in that time... :D

 

Many of us learned long ago with minimal tools. Changing bag? Where exactly would one get such a thing--and fact is that the availability was so scarce most had never heard of such a thing. Others made due with discarded dark boxes that had worn out from radiology work. I am pretty sure that even Spirotone did not offer the option of buying one.

 

This is not true now. So, at the cheap and plentiful price point available now--why in the name of the deity of your choice would you want to play all the games of blocking out windows, working in the dead of night, and so on and so forth--when you can have a safe and perfect outcome in ordinary conditions on your kitchen counter where you are going to process? We need suggest no fiery hoops or arcane and laborious endeavors as a matter of "a rite of passage" to those seeking entry to the realm of film and wet chemistry. Rather, with what things are now, let's run with process that makes it ever more convenient and enjoyable than we may have experienced! :cool:

 

 

 

I am to understand that he lives in Britain. Perhaps the water runs nicely at that temperature, and that the climate is also that temperature. Control of this variable is difficult for beginners--and we can preach up Styrofoam containers, ice additions, mixers, and a panoply of other methodologies. These also take experience and FINESSE for them to behave appropriately. From the literature, anecdotal reports, and practical exper Super duper if he has readily available cool water, cool atmospherics, so on and so forth. Most of us live in the real world, and I have never had stabilized 68 degree temps outside of a HVAC controlled darkroom space with available water cooling/valve mixing on the flow cycle.

 

Never did I state or infer that 78 was a temperature to target--or would be experienced by the OP. Yet, this can happen--and even be chose for a variety of processing rubrics. Rather, it is at that temperature metol/hydroquinone really jumps out of the barn. A few degrees one way or another substantially changes the dev time. This FP4 chart is an example:

 

https://www.ilfordphoto.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Temperature-compensation-chart.pdf

The OP has stated in earlier threads that he lives in the UK. I looked. :)

I mentioned in a previous post that the cold water supply temp in the UK is typically 14 C, we don't really use the Farenheit scale.

Upon the stainless steel stuff: It seems a taste to acquire in my book; i.e. I can't handle those reels happily and prefer Jobo's plastic ones anytime. Caveat of plastic: they have to be dry. Amateur reality: There were tanks for 5 or 2 rolls at once. If I shot more, it could wait till the next day, when the plastic reels were dry again.

I see no real advantage of being able to reuse a reel quickly (outside a pro-lab setting). - Film became more expensive, we are just processing our own and if we really have to pick half a dozen uber-keepers among 370 frames, to deliver them the next morning, why not go fully digital for such gigs?

I rather spend a bit of time scrubbing stains from plastic reels or tanks than more time cleaning up a mess.

Jobo processors seem convenient and nice to have. - I did a lot of pushing HP5 in Microphen 1+3 at 45 minutes. - Nice to not need to touch tanks to agitate them or to get away with a bit less chemistry in use. + the additional benefits of consistency and temperature control. - You can of course pick another favorite developer when you are agitating by hand and there must be enough solutions that work at cozy room temperatures. Kodak recommended 24°C for T-Max in T-Max soup and I didn't try it at lower temperatures.

There are daylight loading tanks like Agfa Rondinax. But they require you to leave the leader sticking out of your cartridge when you rewind. - Not that easy to do. The Rondinax also needs you to spin the reel inside for agitation. Shaking a tank seems easier to me.

I think it is cheaper to buy a changing bag than to build a real darkroom in which you could handle fast film. (I never had one. - I assume making a door light tight at it's bottom takes a toll? - Depending on with whom you live relying on the night to keep things dark in front of a not entirely light tight door is a bad idea.) Getting a room dark enough for printing is much easier!

If you're using the typical stainless steel reels with the little spring clip to fasten the film to, then yes I agree, it's really hard for a beginner to get the film started. The Hewes reels work much better. Rather than a spring clip, they have these nubs that grab onto the sprocket holes, - much easier to get the film started and lined up right.

One the film is on straight, loading the rest on to the reel is pretty simple.

At Ed: Accepted; if you have to clean up, better do roll after roll till you are done. I was fortunate and could leave the mess as it was, go to sleep & school in between and do the next batch.

Still: Does a processing beginner need an ability to handle multiple rolls? Is a news workflow what we are looking for? Which scanners permit wet mounting not yet dried film? Does that work well at all?

The thread got just too stainless steel heavy for my taste. I recommend grabbing something plastic for cheap and starters and maybe moving on later.

More fuel for the fire! My Igloo (yes it is plastic foam lined) only takes a newbie several times to use. Fill all the water bottles & place in cooler. Fixer in both bottles also. I just let mine sit overnight. When you want to develop, check a big bottle for temp. If it's under 68f, use 1.5 liters of hot water to flood the cooler. Wait 20minutes, recheck temp. I generally find the temp at 68f or perhaps 70f. Living in Hawaii half the year, I find ambient temp's push the cooler liquids very close too or into the 80f ranges. I have worked out compensated times thru 78f but after that, it's into the frig for a jug of cold water keep handy. Reverse drill but still in 20mins the temps are close or at 68-70f.

As to the Nikor/ss tanks, that's your choice. Since the 60's I have never had a problem with them, and I am the ADD child from the 60's. . also, I have never had a problem keeping them clean...in fact, have never noticed them staining. Bill

Hi Gents,

Thanks for the further info - just to clarify, yes I am indeed in the UK, have zero experience and will indeed be doing it in my Kitchen.

The temp of the water in an interesting one - I obviously have access to hot water and do have a mixer tap in the kitchen, and a decent digital therometer. But I guess it's trial and error.

I DO like that cooler idea.

As with all these posts, this is JMHO.......A scanner.? Then print it how.?

I love to see people continue to buy film, it helps me in a manner of speaking, but.......

In all seriousness, if you are going to scan, i do not see the point in shooting film.

The reason to shoot film is so you can print, Especially B&W.....unless you are of the opinion that film "Looks Better" than a digitally shot, circa 35mm frame.?

good luck

I do see your point and I've often wondered it myself - "why would I want to do this"? (especially as I already have a number of digital camera's including a DSLR). I couldn't comment on the qualities of a scanned neg vs a Digitial image - it's not something I've ever thought about.

Asides from getting much more enjoyment out of using old cameras and shooting film, I just fancy getting involved in another stage of the process - it's not really about saving money, although the cost of B&W development is what stops me from using anything other than Ilford XP2.

Obviously I'd love to do my own prints, but I just don't have the facilities to be able to do that - yet. But processing my own neg's is the next best thing. What I'll probably end up doing is scanning them for review (and posting up on here), and then sending the neg's off I want printing to a decent processor...

Or even doing a yearly photobook.

That's the plan anyway.

Cheers!

why would I want to do this

For me, it's not only the film cameras (which I do enjoy more), nor the qualities of digital versus a scanned negative, but the little moment of joy and accomplishments I get when take a roll out of the tank and see the tiny images. Holding something physical with your own created images - it's something I don't equally get with digital. Sure it's personal, but I do see the point of shooting film, even if you're only going to scan. There are enough differences in the process of making the image to make shooting film a great addition to an otherwise digital workflow.

For me, it's not only the film cameras (which I do enjoy more), nor the qualities of digital versus a scanned negative, but the little moment of joy and accomplishments I get when take a roll out of the tank and see the tiny images. Holding something physical with your own created images - it's something I don't equally get with digital. Sure it's personal, but I do see the point of shooting film, even if you're only going to scan. There are enough differences in the process of making the image to make shooting film a great addition to an otherwise digital workflow.

I Think that pretty much nails my reasons why.

Developing Tank such as a Patterson with reel.

Developer such as D76

Fixer such as Illford Rapid fixer

Stop bath: just use water

Photo flow from Kodak for final rinse

Changing bag which are available from BHphoto for about $20.00

Some containers to mix and store your stuff. Plastic jugs of any kind that has a good lid.

a coat hanger and some cloths pins or metal clamps to hang your film to dry.

Scanner: For 35mm the usual new ones are Epson V600 or Plustek. Other stuff out there also. The V600 will scan medium format also.

Watch a couple you-tube videos. Check locally for disposal of chemicals. In my county 50 gallons a year can go down the sink. However it's not a problem for me to take it to the Haz Matte disposal site when I have a bucket full. It's free.

Changing bag? Where exactly would one get such a thing--and fact is that the availability was so scarce most had never heard of such a thing.

Developing & Processing Accessories | B&H Photo Video

Actually, a changing tent is preferable. It's a somewhat larger changing bag supported with an internal frame.

It's okay if you take a slap-dab approach and are satisfied with your results. It's another thing to advise a beginner to do the same, much less insult the rest of us who know what we're doing.

Changing bag? Where exactly would one get such a thing--and fact is that the availability was so scarce most had never heard of such a thing

Advertised weekly in Amateur Photographer, along with much other darkroom equipment, by numerous dealers.

My camera club provided free to me:

Paterson tank with reels

Thermometer

A few small measuring cylinders and some cheap $1 store kitchen plastic measuring cups.

I use a powder film developer b/c cheaper and I don't process much rolls. This can be mixed with the normal cheap cups with water.

Stop bath - i use a small cylinder as it is concentrated.

Fixer - you can use the cups, i got a free larger plastic cylinder.

Rinse aid - i just use a eye dropper and then pour into a plastic garden water spray bottle.

Hang to dry - just some bulldog paper clips from the bookshop, hook it to the ceiling of the garage or maybe the shower cube with a horizontal bar and put on a laundry peg on the bottom and a plastic ice cream container to catch the water drips.

Instead of a changing bag - I started off using just the wardrobe at night. A pair of scissors and a can opener. If you use a changing bag if you have issues don't just pull your arms out because some light can still get in and fog your film - my experience. Ask someone to help you get inside a wardrobe before you pull your arms out or you pop the entire roll in the developing tank and then take your arms out.

Ed, you perhaps should consider taking a chill pill--and re-reading what I wrote for CONTEXT. My reference concerned the 60s & 70s. If one cannot find a bag or tent now in the internet age, they need to forget about this and stick with crayons and puppets... :p

I don't know who the remainder of your off-kilter post is directed at--but it certainly is not me. No "slap dab" advice to it. Go back and read the second post in this thread. That absolves me. So otherwise, who is this clueless twit set upon buggering newbies? :eek: