Hot Rodding an F4

Recently got an MD-21 for my F4, which took its autofocus from a bit slow to just as fast (perceived) as my DF or D750. Today I got an MF-23 back. The instruction book is 131 pages long. It promises a variety of marvels from data printing between film frames to time exposures, bracketing, and most interesting capturing a fast moving object, or I'd assume a bug or bird, only when it is in focus. Can't wait to get it operating, but most of a roll of film still in the camera to finish first. I read somewhere that the F 4 only reached its full potential with these accessories. As with most "obsolete" film camera equipment, the add ons were inexpensive. Any thoughts or comments will be appreciated.

Nice, I have been eyeing the F3 a while so, I can see where you are coming from. To be honest I should start by dusting of the old N90...

 

Do you also have the SB-24?

Do you also have the SB-24?

Not at the moment -- I'm not a great strobe enthusiast. Plenty available cheaply on line if it comes to that.

Have an F3 HP -- very nice camera not sure I prefer it to the F 2. I have been using F Nikons for a very long time, and have yet to use one I didn't like for one reason or another, ex, i suppose, F Photomic, which was a bit awkward.

> and most interesting capturing a fast moving object, or I'd assume a bug or bird, only when it is in focus

 

I assume this is "trap focus"? Most high end Nikon DSLRs can do it, I think. With the D810 (checking it), you can put the camera in AF-S, assign AF mode (in A2) to focus priority, focus with AF-On (optionally), and hold down the shutter release. The shutter won't fire until there's actual focus lock (something in focus hits a focus point). This is actually a little weird - logically I would have expected this to be how AF-C worked (you're not continually autofocussing, but you're relying on the autofocus module doing something continuously). On the D750 I guess youd have to use menu F2 to assign focus ("AF-On") to the Fn button, otherwise you'd focus when you pressed the shutter - there's no dedicated AF-On button. (Canons can do it too, but it's a faff if you don't have a dedicated trap focus mode.) Unfortunately it tends not to be blindingly fast, in that it may not catch a bird flying past the AF point, but I've been known to use it for macro shots of flowers swaying in the breeze. Annoyingly it doesn't work for manual focus lenses, although I believe it does if you put a dandelion chip on them (the camera has to think it's an AF lens).

 

> As with most "obsolete" film camera equipment, the add ons were inexpensive. Any thoughts or comments will be appreciated.

 

Sadly the DW-30 angle finder for the F5 is still a bit pricey (for what it is).

I assume this is "trap focus"?

The manual calls it Freeze Focus, and I assume it is the same as Focus Priority which can be set on both the DF and the D 750, but this is Film, so a bit of a novelty.

Actually planning to use the F 4 entirely for Monochrome, and also "wring out" its bag of tricks. I have a variety of lenses across the years to use on it, the 28-85 f3.5-4.5 D will probably be on it most of the time.

Sadly the DW-30 angle finder for the F5 is still a bit pricey (for what it is).

I had a right angle finder for many years, hardly used it, so finally sold it to a fellow here or on another site who was looking for one.

We'll see how it all goes -- at the least, the experiment will force me to do a bit of basic film processing. That, no small part of my motivation in starting the project.

Nice Sandy. These data backs really can do a lot-I should track down an F4 one. I also really would like one for my F5.

 

The data imprinting between the frames always attracts me. I have the F100 back, but it can only print in the frame(which I don't want). I have my F100 set to print data automatically on the first frame, but then I manually turn the data back off after that. On the single digit F series cameras, though, it amazes me how much extra they managed to cram in.

 

As far as strobes go-I'll still go back to the SB600 and SB800 being the best all around choice. Both of these give full TTL functionality with all film cameras so equipped, plus the 800 give thyristor mode and reverse GN mode. They even work in D-TTL mode with the D1 series cameras(along with Fuji and Kodak DSLRs based on the N80). The only caveat is that you need the expensive hot shoe adapter(I think AS-17 is the P/N) for the F3-I opted to buy an SB24 to use with my F3, but use the 600 or 800 on everything else.

A few years ago I got a very shabby looking beater of an F4 just because it was too cheap not to get, and I was quite surprised by how fast it autofocuses with the MD-21, as well as how long the batteries last. My only previous experience with older AF had been with the original Minolta Maxxum, which was just slightly better than useless. If you're not spoiled by more recent systems, the old F4 is really not bad.

 

I found I liked it lots more than I expected to, considering that my previous film flagship was the compact and beautiful F3HP.

These data backs really can do a lot-I should track down an F4 one

I watched the net for a couple of weeks, finally saw one with a low price and Buy it Now. Watch & wait. The instructions, which are absolutely necessary are a little harder to find. If you get one w/o, be glad to share.

I found I liked it lots more than I expected to, considering that my previous film flagship was the compact and beautiful F3HP.

I pretty well worked my way up the line from F Photomic Tn to F3 HP. Hard to choose between the F2 & F3. The F4 is much bigger, heavier, etc. but offers some interesting possibilities. To me, it seems an intriguing precursor to digital things to come. If it works out, I might just go for an F 5 next year.

> The manual calls it Freeze Focus, and I assume it is the same as Focus Priority which can be set on both the DF and the D 750, but this is Film, so a bit of a novelty.

 

Understood. Focus Priority itself just ensures the focus locks before shooting, assuming you have the shutter button focussing rather than AF-On, but the combination is "trap focus" (Nikon temporarily broke this on the D800 before a firmware upgrade). I didn't know the F4 could be made to do this. I believe it's P-Fn16 on the Eos 1v, if you want another film body option (from my previous life). It also has more AF points than a Df. :-) In any case, I hope you have fun with it - I'll be interested to know how effective it is.

 

> Actually planning to use the F 4 entirely for Monochrome, and also "wring out" its bag of tricks. I have a variety of lenses across the years to use on it, the 28-85 f3.5-4.5 D will probably be on it most of the time.

 

I do envy the F4's degree of lens compatibility. Have fun, and don't poison yourself with scary chemicals (says a digital youngster).

Sandy ... do you mean an MF-21, i.e. the data back? I thought the F4 had its own built in motor drive?

 

The "capturing when in focus" is let's say someone walking to you .. they come into focus (even with manual lens I think). When the camera decides focus is achieved it snaps the photo. That is what Nikon has called "trap focus". I've used it myself a few times with fairly decent success.

 

Some comment here - Freeze focus for Nikon F4

 

 

Jim

do you mean an MF-21, i.e. the data back?

The MB-21 is the high speed battery pack, the MF-23 is a more complex / capable? data back than the MF-21. The F4 does have a built in motor drive. Haven't used the data back yet, since the camera has a part used film in it, and it was a rainy day here. Trap Focus is a term I haven't encountered, obviously I have to hit the Manuals again. Thanks for the link!

Wouldn't get too carried away accessorizing the old tank. There's a reason why the N90s/F90x was so popular--its AF performance relative to the F4.

N90s/F90x was so popular--its AF performance relative to the F4

Mebbe so, but with the big battery pack I don't believe it is slower to focus than my new digitals. The F4 was legendary, and I badly wanted one when there was no rational reason to spend the money.

The N90s/F90x were invisible to me, and frankly are probably less desirable today than the single number F cameras. Practical is the digitals, this is something else.

This stuff can be had for little enough that I can afford to try what I always wanted. If it doesn't work out, I still have my older F models, and of course the digital, and expect I'll be able to get most of my money back.

I have 2 F4S bodies and two N90S bodies. The N90's are very good, light weight and the AF, when I use it, is pretty good. It's a quick camera and is simple and straightforward to use. The F4 is the only camera I ever thought was better then the F2 I grew up on. It is heavier than the N90 but quicker and faster. Very capable.Controls are all where they ought to be and it simply works. The F4 seemed to get a lot of grief for its slow AF but it is always ahead of me. You got a winner in the F4, it's a lot of fun to use.

 

Rick H.

The only real area where I've found the F4 AF lacking is in the fact that it really needs a well-defined line to lock the focus(truthfully no different from what we need wih a split image). All phase-detection AF systems of course need that, although newer systems can get away with a bit less contrast and cross-type sensors of course don't need a vertical line.

 

The F5 is better in almost every way, but then it is a totally different handling camera. I don't find AF on the F4 to be bad at all, especially in decent light and it snap screwdriver lenses back and forth pretty well. There again, it's lacking in this area compared to an F5 or D1 series camera(both of which I sometimes am afraid are going to break the lens) but still pretty darn good. One of my reference lenses on focus speed is my 80-200 2.8D, and my F4 can focus it faster than can my F100.

 

I'm also often pleasantly surprised at how well the F4 handles AF-S lenses. Modern high-end bodies do generally focus them faster, but the F4 isn't a slouch.

 

I'm a bit of an AF simpleton in that even when I have 80 million AF points like some modern bodies(I think my D800 has over 100, although not all are user selectable) I tend to just pick single point and stick with the center point. In that sense, the F4 just gives me what I want in an AF system since I don't have to worry about picking points.

(I think my D800 has over 100, although not all are user selectable)

51 and all are user selectable. D500. D5, and D850 have 153 of which 55 are user selectable.

If you're going to get a "period" speedlight I'd suggest skipping the SB-24 and getting an SB-25. The build quality and ergonomics of the '25 just seem a bit nicer. As well as it offering a wider range of manual power settings than the '24.

 

However, I dread to think how heavy and bulky an F4 becomes with motor-drive and data-back attached. The bare body is enough of an elephantine lump on its own. Hope you've been working out Sandy!

 

Incidentally, I notice from the manual that the SB-25 offers focal-plane "HSS" synch with the F90. Anyone know if this feature is triggered by any other camera model?

I dread to think how heavy and bulky an F4 becomes with motor-drive and data-back attached.

The drive is built in, but the large battery pack makes it quite a block. The data back is very light but adds to the depth of the body by nearly 3/4 of an inch. Still have a bit of the muscle acquired in younger days, ranch life helps maintain things a bit. Thanks for the tip on the flash.

The F5 is better in almost every way, but then it is a totally different handling camera.

If this experiment works, possibly an F 5 next year. There are certainly affordable ones for sale on line.

The drive is built in, but the large battery pack makes it quite a block. The data back is very light but adds to the depth of the body by nearly 3/4 of an inch. Still have a bit of the muscle acquired in younger days, ranch life helps maintain things a bit. Thanks for the tip on the flash.

 

If this experiment works, possibly an F 5 next year. There are certainly affordable ones for sale on line.

 

I should qualify my "better in every way" comment by saying that in the above context, it only related to the AF system.

 

Still, the F5 is a superb camera in its own right. I know you're a big Df user Sandy, but I think a lot of folks coming from other DSLRs would find the F5 controls a lot more familiar. You set nearly everything by holding buttons and spinning command dials, and there are very few controls which have a dedicated button/knob/switch. Offhand, I think the only settings that don't use the "hold and spin" design are the advance mode, metering mode, AF mode, and AF point selection(you have the familiar game pad for that). Of course, contrast that to the F4, where everything has a dedicated button or knob.

 

Overall, the F4 does give you a broader range of lens compatibility as you get matrix metering with every "real" AI lens. Plus, I find the controls refreshing. Even though Nikon seems to constantly tweak their ergonomics and the F4 has a decidedly "abrupt" grip vs. newer cameras, I still find it oddly comfortable to hold even if it's not as "cushy" as newer cameras.

 

I'll also add that one simultaneous upside and down side to the F5 is that it only comes in one configuration. The upside is that there's no pieces to lose or connections to get dirty or allow dirt into the body. The downside is that the one configuration is massive :) .

Still, the F5 is a superb camera in its own right.

What I get or keep in film cameras is dependent on resuming regular monochrome processing / scanning negatives. Reinforcement of the behavior, film photography, is in the results!

Indeed, Sandy.

 

Still, I like my Velvia :) . I still shoot in in everything up to 4x5.

 

I'm opening another chapter of my photography adventure and went last night to pick up a bunch of Norman studio lighting. This is being sold by a local club from the estate of one of their members. I'd agreed to buy one outfit with 3 heads and a 2000 watt pack, but they wanted the stuff gone so I ended up with 8 heads, two 2000 watt packs, an 800 watt pack, and a WHOLE bunch of stuff to go with it(stands, reflectors, barn doors, snoots, soft boxes, umbrellas, and plenty of other stuff I'm forgetting).

 

In any case, they were trying to move stuff and one of the things they piled in were some ancient bulk film loaders. They're not my familiar Watsons, but have the same general shape and look to have the same general operation, but are made of bakelite. In any case, two were labeled "Velvia 50" and they seem to be mostly full.

If you're going to get a "period" speedlight I'd suggest skipping the SB-24 and getting an SB-25. The build quality and ergonomics of the '25 just seem a bit nicer. As well as it offering a wider range of manual power settings than the '24.

 

I would second that recommendation. Had both (on an F4). The SB-25 is a much better Speedlight.