Jump to content

Nikon Officially Announces the D850


ShunCheung

Recommended Posts

Just double check Nikon's fact sheet. DX crop on the D850 is 5408 x 3600, which is roughly 19MP.

 

The D500's sensor generates a 5568 x 3712 image at full strength. Therefore, the D500 has a few more pixels, but the actual difference is minor. The bigger difference is that the D500 can shoot at 10 fps with the standard EN-EL15 battery. The D850 can only shoot 7 fps unless you use the stronger MB-D18 for the D4 and D5.

 

I think one is better off just using the D850 to capture with the entire FX frame and then crop, if necessary, afterwards. It gives you more flexibility.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 144
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

If you sell pictures, even occasionally, the extra mp will make your file eligible for wallpaper. No kidding, it's happened to me, with a 50mp body. Komar, a German wallpaper producer contacted me about licensing one of my images as wallpaper (real wallpaper, not screen saver). Also, I've printed out to 72" on the long side, producing a stunning print.

 

If you do neither of those, the cropping ability is luxurious. With Nikon delivering the speed, the only negative is file size.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also, voice of experience here, why would you crop in-camera when you can do it in post?

With some Nikon DSLRs, if you use the crop mode, since the image files are smaller with fewer pixels, the frame rate can go up. I recall that the D800 has a higher maximum fps in the DX crop mode. The D7100 DX body can do 6 fps native, but if you use its 1.3x crop mode on top of DX (which is 2x crop from FX), it goes up to 7 fps.

 

However, there doesn't seem to be such fps advantage if you use the crop mode on the D850. Therefore, the remaining advantage is smaller image file sizes for faster processing, and you can save some memory card and disk space also. Given that memory cards and disk drives are cheap in these days, at least to me, small file size is no longer a major advantage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...

 

However, there doesn't seem to be such fps advantage if you use the crop mode on the D850. Therefore, the remaining advantage is smaller image file sizes for faster processing, and you can save some memory card and disk space also. Given that memory cards and disk drives are cheap in these days, at least to me, small file size is no longer a major advantage.

 

Agreed, but then you have to question why buy it in the first place?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dieter, thanks, I was expecting that area concept but wasn't sure. I appreciate the information. So would it therefore be more advantageous to shoot FF and crop in post except for the larger files? I guess d800/810 users have been addressing that for years. I wonder what you have been doing and why.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder what you have been doing and why.

I have never cropped in-camera, not even to utilize the increased frame rate the D810 offers when used in 1.2x or 1.5x crop mode. I always owned a DX camera that offered a higher MP count than the DX crop on the D810 (about 15MP). When I crop, I do it in post, always. I also have either a spare memory card or sufficient capacity in-camera to not have to rely on in-camera cropping to reduce file sizes. In essence, shooting is data acquisition at the maximum level (OK, I do shoot lossless compressed instead of uncompressed); any further data reduction takes place at home in front of the computer; never give up data if there is no real good reason to do so.

 

The D850 is the first FX camera with a high-enough pixel count that I would have me consider giving up DX altogether - but I already own a D500 and a D810, so why would I consolidate down to one camera now? I may do so in the future when it's time to move on from the D500/D810, but not now.

 

It just dawned to me that we are witnessing the "true update cycle" of Nikon DSLR cameras now: it's 9 years. It took Nikon 9 years to come up with a true successor to the D300 (by which I mean a camera that supersedes the predecessor in ALL aspects) and it took 9 years to provide a true successor for the D700 in from of the D850.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds like an incremental increase. The AF ev -4 sounds interesting, but I just can't justify spending $3300 on a camera body. My plan is to keep using D800E, entirely skip the D810, and when the used D850 prices inevitably drop below $2,000, I'll buy two. Meanwhile, I do some lens shake ups: sell NIkon 20mm f1.8G & buy Sigma 14mm f1.8, sell Nikon 80-400mm AFS and buy Nikon 300mm f4 PF + TC-14iii. The better AF on the D850 and 10 more MP just won't make a difference in what I shoot. As for video, I don't even own a 4K TV.

 

 

Kent in SD

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With some Nikon DSLRs, if you use the crop mode, since the image files are smaller with fewer pixels, the frame rate can go up. I recall that the D800 has a higher maximum fps in the DX crop mode. The D7100 DX body can do 6 fps native, but if you use its 1.3x crop mode on top of DX (which is 2x crop from FX), it goes up to 7 fps.

 

Since I tend to run a fair few years behind the curve, when I do action shooting(limited to my nephews' baseball games) I use the crop mode on my D2x to get the higher frame rate and deeper buffer.

 

I'm mixed in my thoughts on its utility in my D800. I'm in the process of upgrading from a collection of 4 and 8gb cards to some 32 and 64gb, and although they're relatively inexpensive these days I still don't have the quantity that I'd like. I think a 32gb card is good for a little under 400 RAW files, which seems dauntingly small given that I've been use a few hundred on a 4gb card and over 1000 on 8gb.

 

Moving to a camera with that much resolution(and a 5 year old one at that) has made me have to rethink everything. I bought a new(er) Mac Pro(2012 Cheesegrater) that I'm in the process of building out to my specifications-specifically I need to get a couple of big platter drives to store images. PCIe boot drives and 12 cores should help me crunch through images fairly quickly(it's not bad now with a standard SSD and 8 cores).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dieter, I think you nailed it with that 9 year number. While they made small changes, or huge files, I bought lenses. I went from the d200 to a d500 and will go from a d 700 to the d850. The 500 is blowing me away and I expect the 850 nearly 4x the d700 pixels should also. It answered all my requests and then some.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pretty much as I have expected all along, the D850 is roughly "an FX version of the D500," but I had anticipated the announcement around September 2016, prior Photokina 2016. Therefore, in my mind it is about a year late, but at least the specs look impressive so that hopefully it is worth the wait..

[ATTACH=full]1205575[/ATTACH]

I realize it's just a matter of opinion -- and we're all entitled to that, of course -- but still do not see this camera as an FX version of the D500. Since I own the D810 and will be pre-ordering the D850, I compared the specs side by side. In my opinion I think the similarity between these two models clearly makes this an upgraded D810 -- but again, probably just semantics - not worthy of a discussion point. :) Most of the upgrades will have no use for me (faster; movie upgrades,etc) and I am only getting it to have another body -- so I am so happy Nikon didn't listen to some of you guys with your predicted prices (! yikes :) ) -- this is closer to what I thought they would market it at, so I am very pleased with Nikon's decision.

 

My only 'frown' point -- which others on this forum had predicted - is the loss of the pop-up flash. Sure that sounds silly from one who specializes in fine art -- but that silly little pop-up -- even with it's annoyances -- has been used enough times in a pinch that it will be missed. I will survive, I am sure. :) Like the tilt monitor, though. Anyway, it sounds like exactly what I've been waiting a year for myself -- and was so happy to see the announcement and pre-order option in my in-box today. :-)

 

Anyone looking for a gently used D3s - lol :-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"The European prices for this camera seem to have about 400€ extra in them, compared to B&H price in the USA + European VAT"

In Romania the price is $ 4488 . Way to much. I decided to buy a Fuji X-T2 + 2 primes and sell some Nikon equipment...The continuum

raising prices by Nikon, drive me crazy.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The UK pre-order price in £ stirling is actually higher than the US $ figure! £3500 versus $3300.

 

If Nikon UK want my business, then they'll have be far less greedy. They don't even provide good after-sales service.

 

Anyhow, I'll be waiting at least 6 months after release for the inevitable bug reports and possible recalls to surface.

 

WRT 45.7 versus 36 megapixels: I think it'll be definitely visible. The 42 Mp Sony certainly beats the D810 for sheer detail under close scrutiny. In fact Sony may well get my money rather than Nikon if they bring out a new MLC soon.

Edited by rodeo_joe|1
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh! No AF assist light? That's a bit crazy. But then choosing to fit a filament bulb rather than an LED was a crazy decision too.

 

Does anyone know if there's an improvement in A/D bit depth? Sticking with 14 bits rather than 16 is a bit (oops, sorry!) crazy these days as well.

Edited by rodeo_joe|1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Had the opportunity to play with the D850 during the introduction party for the D850 NPS Netherlands organized

Only worked with the settings as dialed in by the technicians from NPS

 

I'm not much into video, and with two D800 slready have more then enough experience with high pixel camera's,

so the bump up to 45,7 Megapixel isn't that exiting/interesting for me

 

I however was interested in the improvements on high ISO and AF

(and if and if I would be able to still use my old AF D and manual lenses with ALL AF selection points)

 

My first (general) impressions:

- body doesn't feel (extra) heavy compared with my D800,

- generally speaking button lay out and menu's feel as far as I played with them (not very much) very familiar

- No complaints or observations on the improved viewfinder, nothing to say about the video ( not interested in) nor snapbridge (didn't try it out)

 

so I expect little problems adapting coming from eg a D3, D00, DF and D7100 (the bodies I have) to the D850 in that respect

But admittedly I'm not enough of a gearhead to delve deep into all the options etc, as a rule with each new body I get just use/dial in the settings I need (based on my experiences with Nikon film AF - starting with the F801 - and digital bodies - D1 - ) and forget about the rest

 

AF

- even under the not particularly good lighting it was very fast (much, much faster then my D800, and as far as I could judge snappier with lightning speed lock on then my D3)

 

As said my personal interest with the AF however was how it would work with AF-D lenses, and older manual focus lenses.

The official statement (copied from the DP review D5 review) on the 20K AF module, which the D850 also has, is

Understandably, the number of available points as 'cross-type' varies depending on which lens you use and its maximum aperture, so that's something you'll want to check out in the D5 user manual. As an example, if you own a lot of older AF-D lenses as I do, you're actually limited to the 45 cross-type sensors in the center of the frame.

 

So to begin with I first mounted a 1.4 50mm AF-D, framed a picture in landscape mode, and manually selected an AF point as much towards the side in the viewfinder

To my pleasant surprise the lens would AF and give a sharp image

Maybe I was dumb lucky, or due to some user error got the body work, correctly or not, with the AF-D lens, But my impression is that the full range of (visible?) AF points will work even with AF D lenses, which for me is a big plus (and relief as I will be able to continue to use eg my 1.4/85 AF D and 2/135 DC on the D850 with all AF points)

 

Secondly I mounted my old (modified) pre AI 1.8/85mm ikkor H, and tried the same, now to see whether the 'green confirmation point' in the viewfinder would work when I aimed an AF point on a random spot

Again to my delight it worked on all visible AF points, so seems to work without any issues, now with manual lenses, too

 

High ISO JPG's

When I asked if I could put an SD card in the body, to my surprise that was OK, since it apparently already was a full production (so not a pre production, yet to be perfected) copy

 

Didn't go for RAW's as there is no software available for post processing those files yet, and instead shot a number of JPG from 500 to 12800 ISO

 

Downloaded with Nikon Transfer, opened in Nikon NX 2.4.6, no postprocessing, no sharpening, no fiddling with contrast etc (guess that amounts to SOOC)

 

Tried uploading some pictures, but the IQ got compromised in the process, so just links

 

500 ASA 100% crop

(Shot in A mode, which resulted in a shutterspeed of 1/15th, so sorry for the blurry picture

D850 004 20170824 500 ASA 100% crop.jpg by Paul K

 

iso12800 100% crop of 1/500)

D850 024 20170824 12800 ASA 100% Crp.jpg by Paul K

 

You can find the whole set (500-1000-2000-4000-8000-12800 ASA, didn't care to go any higher)

of full images, crop of 100% enlargements, and the Exif data over herehis an overly image filled post) the 100% crops, as well as together the Exif data here

D 850 by Paul K

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Paul, the other points outside of the central 45 act as linear points with certain lenses rather than as cross type sensors (whereas the maximum is 99 cross type out of 153 total points). So you do get full coverage but a bit less sensitivity to certain directions of detail in the subject outside of the center of the image. All my AF-S lenses give a full 99 cross type coverage (unless I use a TC). I haven't noticed any problems using the 105 DC (which is an AF D lens) with the D5 though this is not what I use normally. Probably the limitations are the same as described in the D5 manual which you could download and check until the D850 manual becomes available. Edited by ilkka_nissila
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh! No AF assist light? That's a bit crazy. But then choosing to fit a filament bulb rather than an LED was a crazy decision too.

 

The in-body AF assist light is really noticeable to the subjects so it is a bit intrusive and doesn't work with continuous focus (and doesn't cover all of the AF sensor). You can get assist light by using a speedlight (which gives a less intrusive assist light). Multi-CAM 20k can focus in pretty dark conditions in my experience. Usually I find the ISO is in the 25000-50000 range before the first hunting occurs (and I never use AF assist light).

 

Sticking with 14 bits rather than 16 is a bit (oops, sorry!) crazy these days as well.

 

The per pixel DR of the D810 is 13.67 EV at ISO 64 and 13.27 EV at ISO 100 so we're getting close to where 16-bit conversion would probably help a little but the issue then is that every file would be larger and the benefit would be very slight and only at base ISO. The fps rate would likely be reduced. The 16-bit conversion could take more time to do properly - after all we're talking a 4-fold increase in precision required.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I realize now the D850 doesn't have a built in flash nor the ugly looking AF assist light like its predecessor.

 

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'll miss having a built in flash.

 

I use mine all the time as a trigger both for CLS(SB-600s and 800s) and plain old optical slaves. I also occasionally use it for outdoor fill, especially when I don't want to haul around an external light.

 

I guess anyone who wants to use CLS with the D850 will now have to carry around an SB-800 or SU-800 to work as the controller.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know who is in the majority regarding the built-in flash (I suspect most prefer it to be there). I personally do not like the built-in flash and prefer the space to be used for a better viewfinder and to allow more space for PC-E wide angles to move.

 

When I do flash fill I typically want to soften the light so that the shadows maintain proper gradation of tones. I find that an on-camera fill flash lifts shadows to a homogeneous tone so the 3D features of the subject's facial shadow areas are no longer apprpriately gradated. Because the tonal variation on a broader scale is missing in the filled shadows, the blemishes in the skin become more obvious in these shadow areas. It looks really odd to my eye when the highlights have normal gradation, but there is a piercingly bright and small spot in the eyes, and then the shadows are a lot of skin imperfections very clearly and sharply rendered, with no broad-scale transition on tones in the filled in shadows. In practice I want better quality light and rarely use flash with anything smaller than a shoot-through umbrella.

 

As for the use of the built-in flash as commander, when I've tried it I've run into a lot of problems. First, the pop up seems to induce a lot of eye blinks for some reason (timing of the pre-flashes?). Second, even when set to no output and commander only, the pop-up still emits the sync flash which leads to some light pollution in the foreground in the picture. Third, I find that the pop-up flash as a commander has a very long recycle time and this prevents me from shooting at my usual tempo. Especially when making group shots I need to shoot at a good pace to get some shots where everyone has a good expression and avoid especially younger subjects becoming bored.

 

The pop-up light can also be shaded by a larger lens and hood.

 

From my perspective the removal of the pop-up is a relief and the alternative use of the space adds to the value of the camera. I find the D5 viewfinder to give more even lighting across the frame than the D810. I look forward to seeing what kind of improvement they were able to achieve in the D850 VF given the freedom to use the pop-up housing space differently. The magnification has been increased.

 

If you must use CLS then the SU-800 is a good commander with more range than the pop-up flash and since the trigger flash is not visible it doesn't cause eye blinks and it allows a faster rate of shooting with remote flashes. However it has a fairly narrow cone of illumination so even though it has good range there need to be some reflecting surfaces to bounce light to the receivers of the remote flashes (this is ok in a smallish white room). Personally I use radio for almost all remote flash control and triggering. I realize that there are additional costs with radio but personally I find it (especially the Nikon implementation) to be worth the cost.

Edited by ilkka_nissila
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...