Night portraiture

First attempt at this. What FL and aperture do you use at night time to have the background in detail?

I could see the background but I would like it more DOF. My attempt was ISO 1600, 1/3 and F8, shot on a tripod with the flash off camera at 1/32 manual power. Trying to balance this all out and not have body movement as well. Your thoughts?

Sounds like you need a sturdier tripod if you're getting motion blur in the background at 1/3rd second.

You are using a cable or remote release aren't you?

12,800 ISO isn't a practical option unless you have a really good camera. So I think you need to persuade your model to keep more still, or use a wider angle to get more depth-of-field at the same aperture, or re-think your picture concept altogether. Background blur isn't usually an issue with night portraits - it's kind of expected.

An image here

Dropbox - 2017_07_30_0031.jpg

ISO 1600, 1/3, F8, flash using Nikon's commander mode to the side at 1/32 manual power with just the dome.

1. The buildings in the back, the building logos's cannot be read. Is this possible?

2. On this image the person's eye is quite ok. But I suppose there was similar ambient light for the person compared to the background. In a studio or dark backyard setting - using max flash sync speed and the flash to fully light the person up the person would be in more detail right. Anyway when I took the shot without the flash the person was already visible.

Thanks for responding to Sandy's request.

. . . What FL and aperture do you use at night time to have the background in detail?

 

An image here [..] ISO 1600, 1/3, F8, flash using Nikon's commander mode to the side at 1/32 manual power with just the dome.

1. The buildings in the back, the building logos's cannot be read. Is this possible?

2. On this image the person's eye is quite ok. But I suppose there was similar ambient light for the person compared to the background. In a studio or dark backyard setting - using max flash sync speed and the flash to fully light the person up the person would be in more detail right. Anyway when I took the shot without the flash the person was already visible.

The EXIF reveals that the image was made with a Nikon D600 and lens at FL = 52mm.

Using a 135 Format camera (aka "Full Frame") - to address the first question about the background (near horizon) being in focus – a good rule of thumb for this type of Portraiture is to use a 35mm Lens at F/11., with the Subject at a distance about 15ft to 20ft (3~4meters) from the camera; 20ft is better.

If you want a final image with tighter framing, then you will need to crop it. Using this basic set-up, the horizon will be in "acceptable focus" for a typical print at typical viewing distances.

To address the second question – in a dark backyard setting and using Max Flash Sync, you’d typically be using the Flash as the KEY LIGHT, thus the background would be typically dark (close to black). On the other hand, your sample image has the Flash being used as the FILL light.

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There are two basic concepts of using Flash in dark situations – one is FLASH as FILL and the other is Flash as KEY. When the Flash is being used as the Fill Light, it is exactly the same procedure as when the Flash is used as a fill light on a sunny day, the AMBIENT exposure is calculated for the scene (in this case the background cityscape) and that then determines the Aperture and the Shutter Speed, for the selected ISO. Then the Flash is used to fill the (foreground) Subject.

Although the technique for Flash as Fill in dark scenes is the basically the same functionality as when using Flash as Fill in bright scenes, it is often given a special name of “Dragging the Shutter”.

This name derives from the fact that the shutter (speed) is being ‘dragged’ a longer period (i.e. a slower shutter speed) than what is the Flash Sync Speed.

WW

Thanks for that.

1. With a 35mm FL lens at F11, that means I will be quite challenged. I am already at ISO 1600, 1/3, F8. So it means ISO 3200 at 1/3 F11.

2. Since I was using it as a fill light that was what I got. If I could climb up the lamp post and take the bulb out. The flash would be Key light right it could had been used to freeze the person and be more in detail? Or alternative if an area had no lights but ok that's difficult then.

– a good rule of thumb for this type of Portraiture is to use a 35mm Lens at F/11., with the Subject at a distance about 15ft to 20ft (3~4meters) from the camera; 20ft is better.

I don't personally have enough experience with this sort of thing to have any specific rules of thumb, but it seems to me that you could do a couple of tests on location to see exactly what works. Just use the lens and f-stop you want, but focus at different points, farther and farther out, until you get the skyline "adequately" sharp. Now the question is, will this work for your model, or does he have to be too far away? Depending on the answer, you might have to stop the lens down farther.

Regarding the large amount of ambient light on your subject, I don't know if it's possible, but if you can bring him forward so as to have his face in shadow then this would let you control his lighting with your flash. Or perhaps something else could shade his face, even a light pole? This would let you use even longer shutter speed, if necessary, as his expression would be frozen by the flash.

Thanks for that.

1. With a 35mm FL lens at F11, that means I will be quite challenged. I am already at ISO 1600, 1/3, F8. So it means ISO 3200 at 1/3 F11.

I think that you mean you’d be ‘challenged’ because of the ISO that you need to use. Not necessarily. I think that we need to consider the process of “Dragging the Shutter”.

Let’s say that you’ve established that your ambient exposure (for the background cityscape) is F/8 @ 1/3s @ ISO 1600. And I suggest that you need to use a 35mm lens and F/11. There is no reason why you cannot stay at ISO 1600 and pull the shot at F/11 @ 2/3s @ ISO1600. What you need to ensure is that the Camera is stable, preferably on a tripod.

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2. Since I was using it as a fill light that was what I got. If I could climb up the lamp post and take the bulb out. The flash would be Key light right it could had been used to freeze the person and be more in detail? Or alternative if an area had no lights but ok that's difficult then.

I think that there is confusion about the terminology. When I wrote that Flash was the fill light, I was referring to the use of the Flash in the WHOLE scene – the Flash was “filling” the foreground portion of the scene.

That is a different meaning to the flash being a “fill light”, referring to the Subject's Lighting, that is to say when the Subject is lit by the Flash and the Lamp Light.

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I don't personally have enough experience with this sort of thing to have any specific rules of thumb, but it seems to me that you could do a couple of tests on location to see exactly what works. Just use the lens and f-stop you want, but focus at different points, farther and farther out, until you get the skyline "adequately" sharp. Now the question is, will this work for your model, or does he have to be too far away? Depending on the answer, you might have to stop the lens down farther.

Testing will be a good idea. It always is a good idea to do practical testing, that way the results are "seen".

Expanding on what I wrote: if the Subject is about 20ft from the camera and we are using a 35mm lens, the VERTICAL Field of View at the Plane of Sharp Focus is about 14ft. enough height for a person or persons standing with a good amount of ground beneath and air above.

Therefore Yes - the lens will have to be stopped down further than F/11 if the Subject(s) is/are closer.

But what I think testing will show is, no matter what FL lens is used it will never be possible to pull a shot FRAMED as an HALF SHOT (as per the sample) and get the background (at the horizon) in “acceptable sharpness”, because there will never be enough DoF for such tight a FRAMING. ("Framing" meaning what we see in the viewfinder - and note that the DoF for Portraiture Distances stays just about identical for any same FRAMING no matter what FL lens is used).

Doing some tests will (I believe) provide the only option: stand back, use a wider angle lens, then crop in Post Production (if a tighter shot is required).

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The rule of thumb (35mm, 20ft @F/11) stems from Press/Newspaper work. Typically used for a group shot of (important) people at a notable location (in the background). Typically that group would be standing in an horseshoe arrangement. 35mm lens was used because typically we would have (at least) a 35mm and also a 50mm Prime Lens. When available I'd use a 24mm Prime so I could creep in a bit closer than 20ft.

WW

Regarding the large amount of ambient light on your subject, I don't know if it's possible, but if you can bring him forward so as to have his face in shadow then this would let you control his lighting with your flash. . .

Good idea.

Also the Lamp Light them becomes a kicker-backlight, which will "rim" the top of the head and define a better foreground/background differentiation - i.e. the Subject will "pop" better.

WW

The answer seems reasonably simple. Reduce the ISO speed and use a smaller aperture, while increasing the flash power.

Increased flash-to-ambient will freeze the face better, while a smaller aperture and longer shutter speed will render the background sharper. However, you're asking a lot to get several hundred metres of depth-of-field. You may have to focus further back and sacrifice a little sharpness on the face.

Look up "hyperfocal distance" as a means of maximising DoF.