Dance Photography

Hello, I would like some of your wisdom if i could. I am a Starting up Photographer (2 years). I am not a registered buisness, yet. I only do my daughters dance studio at the moment, but my question is these. Last year i did Dance Recital Costume pictures. Individual shots (3-5) Then group shot (3-4) of each dance class. We offered packages. CD - 15.00 for the cd and one dance, then 8.00 for each Addt'l dance on the CD. I also offered a Photo print package. 1 8x10, 1 5x7, 1 sheet of 8 wallets. I think it was the same pricing as above. 1 Picture per photo print. I did do Al La Cart as well. We avg about 2200.00 in sales. Which was split 50/50 between the studio and Myself.

 

This Year instead of a CD we are offering a Flash Drive, same type of pricing as above, Al La Carte prints and Photo Package. The thing is, the Studio director once to discount the Flash drive for an Early Pre-sale Package for the recital that is coming up. The Pre Sale is discount video(Not me), t-shirt, tickets and photos for a certain period, then it goes to regular pricing up above. 15 for 1-3 pics, 30 for 4-6, and 40 for 7 or more pictures. With the recitals, i took 2500 pictures for just the 1 session, most girls do maybe 8-10 dances with the odd few doing 12 or more. (my daughter does like 20)

 

My concern is, i owe the studio director because she gave me a shot at doing photos, and she has helped my daughter with the issues she has had as well. I feel, as i can't really say no, but i don't feel right about the early discount. I know are mark ups are not bad, and the prices are really cheap.

 

I just don't know.

Does the discount come out of your half? If the studio is offering a discount, without consulting you, they should absorb the loss from their half.

 

<Chas>

I'm not sure how it is being worked. I told her as long as it covers the Flash drive sales and I have the money before i order them. We will still make money on them, just not as much as we would if we didn't offer the pre-sale package.

It sounds like you went ahead before hearing the answer to the question you asked. I would have gone back to the negotiating table and talked about that discount. A photographer can't stay in business operating the way you are. If you don't know how much money you are making how can you budget for depreciation, insurance, overhead, etc?

I'm not sure how it is being worked. I told her as long as it covers the Flash drive sales and I have the money before i order them. We will still make money on them, just not as much as we would if we didn't offer the pre-sale package.

 

I echo Charles' concerns.

 

Further and expanding on Charles' point for the calculations of what money that you are making.

 

For calculations of profit ('making money'), the "business" is an entity which is separate to yourself.

 

So, using this job as a simple example with some assumed figures:

 

Base Expenses

Flash Drives and other expendables: $300

ALL of the Business's Overheads for this job: $300

Discount 'as agreed' $300

 

Sales:

$2000

 

GROSS Profit:

$1100

 

What I think you will be reading is that your business "makes" $1100 on this example job.

 

It doesn't.

 

In the above calculation we have not factored the wages that the business needs to pay the employees - you are the employee of your business.

 

Let's suppose you spend a total of 25 hours: negotiating, preparing, shooting, post producing and delivering for this job.

 

Let's further suppose you have calculated that your business needs to be pay you $50 per hour for you to; live; provide food and shelter; an health plan and savings & superannuation etc. . . then your business has not 'made' any money at all, in fact the business has LOST $150 in this example.

 

WW

I thank you all for your advice in this matter, as to what you have said, yes, this 'deal' did go down quickly. The Studio Directer is trying to get allot of Pre-sales to make money quickly before the show. I don't mind this, as so much as she also takes money off of my daughter's dance tuition that does NOT come out of the profit from the photo's or recitals. So, she does save us money that way too. As long as i cover my expenses, and anything out of pocket, like the flash drives and such. This year i will need someone to work the computer and sales aspect of the costume shoot due to my wife will be busy getting my daughter ready for the shots as well..

 

Once i find out what the "Packages" for the pre sale are i will post them and see what you all think. I know that i will have to do a couple things for next year.

 

1. Raise prices slightly

2. Make sure everything is clearly written down on price points, discounts, pre-sales for my work, as well as my time.

3. Make a easy to use order form for the costume shots.

 

I thank you all again for given up your time and talking. Please keep it up, i want to learn as much as i can to make this buisness work well and i can quiet my "night" job.

 

Jeff

I appreciate your response. I think you are heading in a good direction.

 

If you are not out of pocket for any of the expenses for this shoot, then you can rightly credit any discounts or lack of 'profit' to a cost for your 'learning experience'.

 

*

 

. . .

 

3. Make a easy to use order form for the costume shots.

 

For this type of shoot, I am always inclined to arrange a preview of the images on site (on a Monitor) and have the order form completed and paid in full, on site, no other option or if you really need to have another option (and I stronly advise against it) then "discount" the on site order heavily.

 

Two key points to make this work is you will need a competent Sales Assistant to manage the previews and orders (best if they are photo file savvy too, for example managing Lightroom files or similar) and you need to be accurate with your exposures of the shots and slick with getting them into logical, ordered files/folders on your computer.

 

You need either a quick physical turn around of the camera cards or send the files by a link.

 

I capture raw + JPEG(L) and use I the JPEG file as the preview.

 

The salient point is that the Client is much more likely to buy an huge bucket of Ice-cream at the Event with their Children with them, rather than later sitting in their lounge room discussing the purchase with another Adult.

 

The only better method is to have printing on site, but I think you will have too short a time to arrange that

 

WW

I use tether to capture the images and put them in Lightroom. The only issue with selling at that moment is that most of the kids have more then on dane to shot through out the week. So they have to come back another day for another set of dance pictures.

 

I capture JPEG(L) But i am going to switch to RAW + JPEG(L) since i am tethering.

 

I do need someone at the computer for all 5-6 days of the shot, preferably the same person, usually it is my wife but she will be heloing my daughter with costumes and stuff.

 

What i have done with the order form, is take the pictures, then who ever is doing the "Sales" write the image number on the form for that persons kid and then ask if they want prints with the cd or what not. There is a form with what package they want and the image number they want print etc. It was a bit complicated. Lot's of questions were asked.

 

As for on site printing that would be great, but as i don't have time to print and shot at the same time and neither does my assistant since they would be doing the sales stuff.

 

Jeff

For any "Team's Portraiture" I think one main business priority is to make the ordering and payment systems as streamlined, simple and least time consuming as possible.

 

It seems that you are aware and are developing those systems.

 

Good luck.

 

WW