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What Can We Do About This Site?


Rod Sorensen

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"Fix the site problems or die of non-competitive entropy"

 

Hmm, entropy is a measure of disorder in a thermodynamic system. Now as a scientist and executive also for many years, I am trying to figure out what "non-competitive entropy" is .. : -)

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It is a big, wide competitive world out there. Go to DP Review or Fred Miranda to see two sites that are easier to use. I can get to forums easier in Luminous landscape. I have been a devotee of photonet for over ten years. As a former senior executive I know better than to get into defensive squabbles with the paying customers. Fix the site problems or die of non-competitive entropy. The old site was easier to use. Face fact not customers.

Fair enough Mr.Arnold , we'll keep working on it, we appreciate your generous support. In terms of forum functionality - this is Xenforo platform, designed and engineered specifically for forums, it is not a custom build. I've written this in the past - but old site was programmed in TCL on AOL platform, antique plates on that old car and something that could no longer be supported in todays workforce. I think you'll find that there is little wrong on this side of the equation, the issue you might be experiencing is that you unfamiliar with it. Xenforo vs SimpleMachines which is luminous forum software) is very comparable (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Internet_forum_software) I wish you'd give it a shot - it appears your last upload was in 2014.

Edited by G-P
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this is Xenforo platform, designed and engineered specifically for forums, it is not a custom build. I've written this in the past - but old site was programmed in TCL on AOL platform, antique plates on that old car and something that could no longer be supported in todays workforce.

 

Please excuse the compliment mixed with a point of contention, but I just love the ability to highlight the above quote and have "reply" pop up and automatically create the quote in the reply entry box. Luminous Landscape doesn't have that.

 

Ok, and now the contentious part. If TCL was working so well for over ten years why are people having so many problems with Xenforo? I mean if it's suppose to be better forum software, why are there more complaints by users than on TCL. How many hours are you spending mitigating this and responding to each complaint?

 

And my photos were never softened after uploading to the TCL version of PN. Why is Xenforo doing this? This is a photo site. You don't do this to photos. Facebook doesn't even do this.

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If I were the one coding improvements, then clearly my time would be not be best spent answering questions in our forums, however I don't code which is why I am in here as often as I can. Most (not all) but most of the issues related to forums I have encountered have more to do with people not being familiar with the new forum vs old forum. Yes, we had issues with logging in/logging out early on - but that turned out to be largely browser & OS specific - we do feel we're past that most of that at this point. Now to the softening question. Is that only you have experienced or are others having similar experience? I do hesitate to compare what you see in Photoshop vs what you posted on any site for reasons I noted before. But I'm all ears, and I will test some later this evening.
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Now to the softening question. Is that only you have experienced or are others having similar experience? I do hesitate to compare what you see in Photoshop vs what you posted on any site for reasons I noted before. But I'm all ears, and I will test some later this evening.

You don't need to test, Glenn. My thread I started in which you replied shows the screengrab showing the OS interface being softened on top of the photo I posted on No Words. Those images were tack sharp on my system both in Preview and Photoshop and on Luminous Landscape, DeviantART, Audacity Forums, Roger Deakins Forums, Adobe Forums going on ten years or more.

 

This softening did not happen in PN 1.0 either.

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Entropy, by definition is a gradual system decay into disorder. I flew the Navy FA 18 simulator with success after just 15 minutes orienting myself to the cockpit. My point is not the software you use it is more about developing a decent and useful human interface. Your problem is with that human interface. Edited by DickArnold
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Entropy, by definition is a gradual system decay into disorder. I flew the Navy FA 18 simulator with success after just 15 minutes orienting myself to the cockpit. My point is not the software you use it is more about developing a decent and useful human interface. Your problem is with that human interface.

 

I know what entropy is, I taught it at university. My question was what is

"non-competitive entropy" ... : -)

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Posting interesting Photos, usually always strikes an harmonious chord, too.

 

I don't feel particularly harmonious when this site alters the look of my images I spent quite a bit of effort getting to look the way I like it, especially for a site that appears to be dedicated to supporting and championing the art of photography. It's an art to me, not a pastime for Facebook gawking

 

Or is this site now designed to just drum up activity data by member's lighthearted Facebook style chit chat? If they don't fix this softening of photos, I'm not going to upload anymore of my images. I'll just squat and chit-chat and look for other photo dedicated sites.

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[W]hen casual browsing becomes frustrating because navigation is such a challenge; then time becomes a decision as to whether or not it's worth the effort. --Mike Mancil

I am trying to be neutral, but that is the bottom line: is it worth the time and trouble? Each of us has to make that decision for himself or herself. I am not trying to pile on here. I am simply stating what I hope is or ought to be obvious: we (some of us) aren't here very much these days because it is too time-consuming to be here, and time is our most precious resource.

 

I have no intention of leaving the site. I am, believe it or not, a loyalist. There is a reason (if anyone wants to know) why some of us are not visiting more often, and Mike Mancil has told us very clearly what it is: it is about time. Speaking for myself, in this incarnation of Photo.net, I simply don't have that much time for the site, at least for now. I sincerely hope that it improves, and I hope that Glenn succeeds in improving it.

 

--Lannie

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to degrade into a non-competitive state through entropy because the site is inherently non-competitive in today's market.

 

I might argue that it is not the entropy that is non-competitive according to your claim then, on the contrary if it denotes a state of degradation or decline, I guess that is what confused me : -).

 

As regards PN however, I feel it would be more productive to simply point out the problems we encounter and give the administrators the opportunity to study them and find solutions, which they are doing on a regular basis.

Edited by John Peri
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I feel it would be more productive to . . .

Seems to me both John Peri and Dick Arnold, both respected members of and contributors to the PN community, are each entitled to their feelings even though and, perhaps, especially because they are so different. Diversity is productive.

We didn't need dialogue. We had faces!
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I really miss old look of Photo.net site. When I started here, some like 14 years ago, we had 1-7 scale Aesthetics and Originality rating system and some serious discussions below users' photos. I learned a lot and spent so many hours studying masterpieces provided by the Timecatchers team and a lot more great landscape photographers. Now, every single website looks the same: we see big photos and very few small icons with no description, minimum text (kids-like design), it is therefore more simple watching than deeper thinking about what we see. Everything comes down to browse faster, click "like it" and next, next one please and so on. It's not the direction I'd like the Photo.net follow in the future.
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I really miss old look of Photo.net site. When I started here, some like 14 years ago, we had 1-7 scale Aesthetics and Originality rating system and some serious discussions below users' photos. I learned a lot and spent so many hours studying masterpieces provided by the Timecatchers team and a lot more great landscape photographers. Now, every single website looks the same: we see big photos and very few small icons with no description, minimum text (kids-like design), it is therefore more simple watching than deeper thinking about what we see. Everything comes down to browse faster, click "like it" and next, next one please and so on. It's not the direction I'd like the Photo.net follow in the future.

 

It seems over night we went from an artistic site to a photo viewing site, you can't tell the difference from View Bug. Perhaps they will generate more picture takers to join, which will help with the bottom line. I wonder how many photographers will stay on and or sign up?

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I am not interested in arguing over words. I ran a large aviation engineering organization doing aviation R&D. We did a lot of work, as the Navy did with human interface. Hundreds of hours of work and subject testing went into human interaction with aircraft controls and displays. In my humble opinion attention needs to be paid to ease of use issues in the new version. In aviation that meant calling in users to test potential human interface alternatives well before going to ninal design. If nothing else do some more beta testing with casual uninformed users like me to find anomalies in the human interface. In my limited use of this system I find it difficult to move between functions. I believe after being a member here for over ten years that the site has lost a lot of its former appeal. I am hopeful that this new renovation will restore some of the vigor that used to be here. This site has promoted useful dialog between members that has made it quite interesting and develped long term relationships between members. I bet the average user age has increased significantly over the years along with a decline in membership.. The redo is a step in the right direction but in order to continue it, IMO, needs to develop a new, younger user base. I have noticed that DP Review reports a lot on cell phones and their photographic use. I like to dream and read about the latest photo gear enen if I never buy something. PN is well worth saving and the redo was over duie. .
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Believe we're stuck with the current version, with some likely fixes and possibly enhancements. Reminds me of an old joke.

How many PNET 1 users does it take to change a light bulb? 3, one to change the bulb and two to reminisce about how great the old bulb was.

Onward & upward, make do, or do something else.

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  • 1 month later...

Sorry guys for bad spirit but... Until when we will have to suffer photo.net 2.0 bad performance?

Not going to renew my subscription until looking pictures doesn't feel a nightmare... It is so bad.

Admins should set a performance target and try to achieve it in X months, if not possible then roll back.

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