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Less visitors.. Less view..


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I suspect that quite a few might yet post more as bugs are worked out, since one doesn't typically "resign" from this kind of site. If people see features returning to full functionality, I suspect that we might see some people come back--and others might likely cruise by more often, and might even stay awhile. I don't think that they are staying. There is no sense of "home" here for too many, or so it would appear from the expressions of disgruntlement.

 

There are also time costs involved in learning a new site, and in many respects this is a new site. I have not myself delved into everything, anymore than I did the original PN all at once. If the site adds features that appeal to people, some will probably return. I am not sure, however, that marketing for the new version is predicated on getting big numbers from the old regulars. In fact, I am quite sure that it is not. I suspect that the presumption has been that new members will provide the increase.

 

There is a social dimension to a site like this that Brian Mottershead once remarked on when he was managing the site. He expressed surprise at how many people came to the PN of that era for social reasons. On some level, there is still a social dimension when one has a circle or two of regulars whom one can count on to check out and critique one's photos--but that has been damaged, I believe. So, people come by, see that their old buddies are not hanging out or posting or making comments, and so they move along. At least, I think that that is what I might be seeing. I am speculating, since I have no hard data. In any case, Glenn has said rather emphatically that there will be no going back, and so it remains to be seen how the site will evolve or devolve, as the case may be.

 

--Lannie

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Notwithstanding my long established contrarian views on a variety of things on this site, and without any desire to kick poor Glen yet again, the social aspect having diminished drastically is the reason I am here so much less often. One hopes things will resolve themselves favorably.
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There is a social dimension to a site like this that Brian Mottershead once remarked on when he was managing the site

 

The thing is, Lannie, as you well know, is that <i>social</i> relates to society and the PN1 demographic is, literally, dying out. New blood is needed.

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The thing is, Lannie, as you well know, is that <i>social</i> relates to society and the PN1 demographic is, literally, dying out. New blood is needed.

 

Ok, where is this new blood? I don't see the old blood on the photo side, much less new. If this so called new blood is what they want, just show up and click a "like" or "admire" button without discourse or any sense of community, then PNet is years behind the times. 500px is the place for that... Mike

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Perhaps in the spirit of community, the longstanding members who are invigorated by the new blood could introduce us to some of the new people in a thread begun for that purpose. It would be a really nice gesture, both for the members who've been around for some time and the new ones, to have a thread where a member who's been here for years posted a link to the portfolio of a newer member. I haven't approached the galleries yet, but it sounds like many have, and I would definitely take a look at some recommended new work. So I think a good, practical, community-minded move would be to start a thread for the purpose of linking to a new member you've found whose photos or forum posts could be recommended. I'd love to get to know some new blood.
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We didn't need dialogue. We had faces!
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Perhaps in the spirit of community, the longstanding members who are invigorated by the new blood could introduce us to some of the new people in a thread begun for that purpose

Fred, there has been a new member forum for awhile*. it's practically empty.

 

 

 

 

 

*a while (i always forget)

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Hi,

 

I am one of those "new blood" that joined recently (last year) to take advantage of photo.net's unique rating system to help me improve my shooting. Really just looking for more objective feedback. I found it helped in a way, since the anonymity and simplicity of the feedback meant more objectivity and larger (for me) number of viewers. It helped me also to see what photography the larger community likes, which can be helpful for studying composition, layout etc to teach yourself to improve.

 

That changed in February. I can't figure out how to see that rating stuff and -- having only recently learned my way around the site -- I'm even more lost. So I haven't been back since February. I paid for a year's membership but feel like that is money lost (I've gotten very little value out of that membership).

 

Except today, I check back to see if I can find ratings - nope - and see if there are new comments - nope. It's rather frustrating, really. A unique feature of the site that I liked, coupled with seemingly higher traffic was useful to me. But with those two aspects apparently gone, and not having integrated in any way into the social aspects of the site, there's just no motivation -- as "new blood" -- to come visit photo.net.

 

All I want is useful objective feedback for my photos.

My family likes my photos and that's good -- but I still want to get better.

I'm not famous, not even a professional photographer ... I have sold a couple of prints which was pretty exciting, but in reality I'm just another anonymous amateur amongst thousands and thousands looking for ways to improve my photography.

 

It's frustrating, and I was just going to lurk to try to find answers, but decided to post with the thought that maybe my viewpoint will be helpful.

 

-Jason

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Handmade silver gelatin prints at:

 

https://www.etsy.com/shop/Pictoriographica

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" Except today, I check back to see if I can find ratings - nope - and see if there are new comments - nope. It's rather frustrating, really. "

 

 

 

You cannot find ratings because the ratings system was abandoned in the new version of the site.

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Jason, thanks for taking the time to post good descriptive feedback on your response to the new site.

 

I think this is the kind of detailed post (including what you don't like and why you feel this way) that is (or should be) most useful to those working to improve the site. Feedback that is particular, explanatory, and not purely emotional is greatly appreciated.

 

maybe my viewpoint will be helpful.

 

 

Yes, your viewpoint is helpful. Again, thank you.

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Jason, have you considered trying for an informal ratings request of your own?

 

When posting one of your photos, add a comment "Numerical ratings from 1 to 5 where 5 is best and 1 is worst (no words required!) are welcome." And, when commenting on other's photos, giving numerical responses with the comment, "I'm giving this picture a 4 — out of a 1-5 possible rating." If enough people do it, maybe it would catch on so the text would be unnecessary.

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Wow.. This is really what I like! My posting over here more popular than my photo gallery, more visitors.. more comments.. I hope to see more members willing to share their thoughts here, keep it up!! Once again, thanks all for your thoughts, comments and opinion. :) :)
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Jason, have you considered trying for an informal ratings request of your own?

 

When posting one of your photos, add a comment "Numerical ratings from 1 to 5 where 5 is best and 1 is worst (no words required!) are welcome." And, when commenting on other's photos, giving numerical responses with the comment, "I'm giving this picture a 4 — out of a 1-5 possible rating." If enough people do it, maybe it would catch on so the text would be unnecessary.

 

Here's a thought: Update the latest release of photo.net to restore the ratings functionality from the legacy system and save the users the trouble of maintaining their own. That's what I call user friendly.

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the PN1 demographic is, literally, dying out. New blood is needed.

 

I think that the talk about generational differences is over-rated. The fact is that discerning photographers across generations have very much more in common than many seem to think. Young and old alike can also spot either excellence or mediocrity. I don't want to overstate the case, but I do think that chasing this or that demographic is apt to leave one empty-handed. Offer a good photography site, and I believe that people of all ages will appreciate many of the same features and the same level of both technical expertise and creativity.

 

One doesn't have to be seventy-two (my age) to know not only that a super-saturated sunset is passé, but also that it was always passé or at least amateurish (not to mention gauche).

 

One of the things that the traditional ratings/critique forums did was invite not only ratings but comments of a critical nature. Without critical commentary, one is not going to learn, and one is not going to preserve thereby the spirit of the old site: a spirit of mutual criticism and learning.

 

I am all in favor of innovation, but I don't believe in throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I never paid too much attention to ratings, but putting things up for ratings at least did get me some viewers, and some of those viewers would sometimes stop and offer a bit of helpful advice. In retrospect, I think that that might be what I am missing the most--that and those little social circles that sprang up here and there. Those were not exclusive social circles, and they over-lapped a lot. People got to know each other that way. Returning to the site every way was returning to the company of friends. I miss that spirit, that feel, of the old site. I think that it could be resurrected.

 

--Lannie

Edited by Landrum Kelly
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the PN1 demographic is, literally, dying out. New blood is needed.

 

I think that the talk about generational differences is over-rated. The fact is that discerning photographers across generations have very much more in common than many seem to think. Young and old alike can also spot either excellence or mediocrity. I don't want to overstate the case, but I do think that chasing this or that demographic is apt to leave one empty-handed. Offer a good photography site, and I believe that people of all ages will appreciate many of the same features and the same level of both technical expertise and creativity.

 

One doesn't have to be seventy-two (my age) to know not only that a super-saturated sunset is passé, but also that it was always passé or at least amateurish (not to mention gauche).

 

One of the things that the traditional ratings/critique forums did was invite not only ratings but comments of a critical nature. Without critical commentary, one is not going to learn, and one is not going to preserve thereby the spirit of the old site: a spirit of mutual criticism and learning.

 

I am all in favor of innovation, but I don't believe in throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I never paid too much attention to ratings, but putting things up for ratings at least did get me some viewers, and some of those viewers would sometimes stop and offer a bit of helpful advice. In retrospect, I think that that might be what I am missing the most--that and those little social circles that sprang up here and there. Those were not exclusive social circles, and they over-lapped a lot. People got to know each other that way. Returning to the site every way was returning to the company of friends. I miss that spirit, that feel, of the old site. I think that it could be resurrected.

 

--Lannie

Well. the ability to critique is still there, so is the ability to follow critiques, etc.

Yeah, it's a little different, and doesn't work with the same muscle memory, but that's life. At first, that ability was not there, and that was cause for concern and consternation, etc., but most functionality has returned.

It's up to the members to poop or get off the pot. If we want to discuss images, do so. (instead of discussing site structure?)

What's your point?

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Hi Lannie,

 

By "new blood" I took it to mean "new users", that is, growing the photo.net community and not necessarily referring to a demographic. I'm actually over the hill, but regardless discussing demographics muddies the waters regarding my point.

 

My concern is that the seemingly most useful and unique aspects of the website have been vacated. I'm kind of suprised that the site owner missed the mark so widely on that one. On all other points besides the demographic issue I agree with you, and I will comment also that the website layout and look has been disorientingly modernized. Colloquially, there's a lot of "unnecessary fluff".

 

Sadly, the damage has already been done since rarely does this sort of thing revert, as people pushing change tend to stubbornly press on even in light of significant unpopularity. Referring to Wayne's comment, seems like many members have "got off the pot" and gone elsewhere. I kind of find myself wondering where they went.

 

-Jason

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Handmade silver gelatin prints at:

 

https://www.etsy.com/shop/Pictoriographica

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If we want to discuss images, do so. (instead of discussing site structure?)

What's your point?

 

My point, Wayne, is that a case could be made for bringing back RATINGS--perhaps by including those ratings within a critique forum structure not unlike that which was on the old site.

 

For me, that was one of the strongest parts of the old site. I don't see why that could not be incorporated into the current site platform. Nor do I see why discussions of site structure are something we should be ignoring. One doesn't have to scrap the new structure in order to import those functions that were successful in the old structure.

 

--Lannie

Edited by Landrum Kelly
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Furthermore, Wayne, something worked on the old site that is not working here. I do think that we do well to figure out what it might have been.

 

--Lannie

What works or worked is an individual experience for each user. My take is that image comments/critiques were the source of familiarity/community between users.

I 'think' (no hard data analysis) they have declined.

To increase critiques we need to make more critiques. end of story. it's up to us

Ratings were always contentious, and demanding of some resources to police 'mate-rating', or whatever. We now have 'likes' -- big deal, hardly a deal maker/breaker.

If our site forum complaints were image comments instead, they would be more positive to the health of the community.

and THAT INCLUDES MINE! ;over and out.

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Sadly, the damage has already been done since rarely does this sort of thing revert, as people pushing change tend to stubbornly press on even in light of significant unpopularity.

iLOVEnature: Well said Jason, I agree your point of view.

 

Referring to Wayne's comment, seems like many members have "got off the pot" and gone elsewhere. I kind of find myself wondering where they went.

iLOVEnature: Photo.net is still one of the best place to share your photos worldwide, I personally like Photo.net site and community very much despite there are too many issues happened in transition period. No choice Jason, all of us must have patience to wait.

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Is there some way to conduct a poll of some sort on the various contentious issues?

 

Polls are imperfect, but they might give us some firmer data for making our claims. Someone in the administration could conceivably construct a poll and mail it out to members. Such a poll could include questions about present site activity and time since last posting of a comment, critique, or (heaven forbid) a photo. We are all aware that the numbers could come back up with the resolution of various technical problems, but it might be good to try to get a feel for more substantive sources of disgruntlement. Specifically, I would like to see a question or two about what persons might miss the most about the old site.

 

Just a thought. . .

 

--Lannie

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