A pity for the new format

DrBen, this site has a number of serial leavers who have been about to, "no really, this time I'm really going leave" -- for years. And yet, here they all still are. Clutching their bloody togas, arms flung dramatically to the heavens as they do the usual swan death while peaking out of the corner of their eye to see if the audience (and especially to their fellow and, of course, wildly applauding, now 'liking,' serial leavers) is appreciating the drama.

This is neither the first time nor the last that we'll see the "No really, I'm REALLY leaving this time ... " act.

DrBen, this site has a number of serial leavers who have been about to, "no

really

, this time I'm

really

going leave" -- for years. And yet, here they all still are. Clutching their bloody togas, arms flung dramatically to the heavens as they do the usual swan death while peaking out of the corner of their eye to see if the audience (and especially to their fellow and, of course, wildly applauding, now 'liking,' serial leavers) is appreciating the drama.

 

This is neither the first time nor the last that we'll see the "No

really

, I'm REALLY leaving

this

time ... " act.

True enough, Julie. The real "leavers" rarely give much warning. They just leave! Sometimes they wander back for a while, but usually the intensity is gone, and one day one notices that one has not seen them in quite a while.

DrBen, however, addresses not leavers but critics. The two types don't overlap that much, in my opinion. A criticism is a social act of trying to make things better, however ineptly stated or however benign or vicious in its expression.

It is when we don't hear from people that we have lost them. No formal exit is required. They just stop showing up as frequently, and then finally they don't bother to show up at all. Their numbers are legion but uncounted.

PN has a third category, the "banned." I'm not sure what business model suggests banning one's customers, but PN does it, or at least did it. "Banning" is quite a different thing from "removing." Disagreeable sorts can always be removed. Photo.net has used banning as a kind of deterrent. Again, I am not sure what kind of business model suggests deterring one's customers. Deterring from what? Showing up?

Of course, once one starts talking about banning, one has to go back to PN's founder, who once banned and unbanned me in the same day, then expressed regret that he had unbanned me.

Curious "place," this world we call PN. It is actually two cultures, the administrative culture and the participant culture. It is interesting to watch the interaction between these two cultures. Yes, it has its drama, and, yes, it is predictably boring.

Yawn. I recommend bringing back the OT Forum. Whatever it was, it was never boring.

The new site is, well, come to think of it, rather boring--except for the drama being played out on these feedback pages. Most of us are showing up to. . . complain? Well, maybe so, maybe so. Until we don't bother anymore. . .

the drama being played out on these feedback pages

Exactly.

The drama! "Friends, Romans and countrymen!!!" cue the violins

Besides this drama, what have you done to help make the site less boring?

Exactly.

 

The drama! "Friends, Romans and countrymen!!!" cue the violins

 

Besides this drama, what have you done to help make the site less boring?

It's your soliloquy. Finish it, Julie.

As for me, I did the unthinkable the last few months: I actually posted photos!

Try it! You'll like it!

I actually posted photos!

Good!

I already like photo.net, old and new. Thanks for thinking of me, though.

Good!

 

I already like photo.net, old and new. Thanks for thinking of me, though.

You like it? You can have it.

As for me, when I think of you, Julie, I think of English department meetings.

Julie, for many of us who have enjoyed photo.net for a decade or more, it's difficult to leave despite our disappointment in the new site. It's not an act. Some, like me, have simply started to participate less. As was said above, it's not fun anymore.

Besides this drama, what have you done to help make the site less boring?

Are you kidding? For many years, Lannie has made this a better and more interesting site.

Of course, once one starts talking about banning, one has to go back to PN's founder, who once banned and unbanned me in the same day, then expressed regret that he had unbanned me.

I didn't know that Phil had done that. He could be a petulant child sometimes, to put it politely. It's a reminder that all was not well in the old days.

... and away we go with the usual turn to personal attacks.

And you've been insulting to people who feel bad enough about the site to think about leaving.

... and away we go with the usual turn to personal attacks.

What's not to like about English department meetings, Julie? My remark could be interpreted as high praise, not as a personal attack. I have (believe it or not), been a member of English departments, but admittedly only when they were part of a larger grouping such as "English and Foreign Languages." (I currently teach more foreign language courses than philosophy or political science. I rather like the ambience.)

Oh, the drama! the drama!

Yes, Hector, it was in the early two thousands, in one of those free-for-alls that resulted in Phil saying that he could kick us all off the site and still have a full complement of photos again by the end of the week, or something like that.

There's drama, and then there's drama. Phil could be dramatic, but, man, could he write code! The site lost a lot of participants during some of those dramatic spectacles. Many never came back.

--Lannie

Lannie, there's plenty not to like about faculty meetings, regardless of the department. Been there, done that. I once heard one of my colleagues say to another colleague, "I didn't understand what you said, but will answer as if I had understood."

Hahaha! Yes, I remember the sharp knives that people used to smuggle into faculty meetings, albeit always disguised as "civil discourse."

For some reason I usually enjoyed those faculty donnybrooks: a snider shade of pale. My political science classes were often free-for-alls, with several dead bodies by the end of the hour, but philosophy discussions could sometimes resemble watching tree sloths at work (emotionally speaking, that is).

Oh, academe! Academe! Why did I sacrifice my life to you?! Forty-three years! And still counting! Oh, the pain, the pain.

--Lannie

It will take some getting used to but I think this version is better than the previous new format.

It might yet turn out to be, Kathy. Some things might be lost forever, due to technical considerations (for all I know). Then again, how many people care about where I shot my photos, or with what camera and lens?

We keep hoping for improvement, which is why we keep coming back. Glenn has a kind of dogged determination to make it work, and I hope he succeeds, both for himself and for the rest of us.

--Lannie

(...) We keep hoping for improvement, which is why we keep coming back. Glenn has a kind of dogged determination to make it work, and I hope he succeeds, both for himself and for the rest of us.

 

--Lannie

Finally...words of encouragement for Glenn, who is obviously trying hard to make PN successful. Positive criticism and suggestions are important and desirable but encouragement and mutual respect are also needed.

I totally agree with DrBen, I too am appalled at times at how the administrators are addressed

Edmund Burke wrote that ... "for evil to prevail, it is enough for good men to say nothing"

Not to be taken literally but the concept is there:

Many of us don't want to enter into polemics, we are here to relax, but I don't think we should just stand by and ignore it either, these people are trying hard to get it right and never do they not respond to genuine matters of concern.

In this and several other similar threads, I have seen a few constructive criticisms--but very few. Most comments are insulting, deprecating and unhelpful. They betray the attitude of whiners, carpers and insensitive, impatient people. Such an outpouring of gall and venom makes me think of something the renowned orchestra conductor and composer Leonard Bernstein wrote:

 

“I've been all over the world and I've never seen a statue of a critic.”

Hard to make constructive suggestions when you are never sure if you are dealing with a bug or a design flaw.

 

These threads contain many examples of ultracrepidarianism (the habit of giving opinions and advice on matters outside of one's knowledge) and the Dunning–Kruger effect (a cognitive bias in which low-ability individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability as much higher than it really is).

 

Or perhaps they are just another example of the cesspool that now floods so many Internet forums with abusive comments.