Any (ideas or hunches) will Minolta produce another Pro 35mm body?

Using the Maxxum 7 w/ VC-7 grip again after a two year MF minolta

hiatus...eyeing the Maxxum 9 covetously. :-)<BR><BR>

Does anyone have any clue if Minolta has dropped out of the high-end

35mm market for good? Or are they just taking a sabbatical and will

they come back with a marvel?<BR><BR>

Yeah, I know film is dying and all that hallabaloo - NOT wanting to

debate that - but every Maxxum 7 or 9 (and thousands of other cameras

for that matter) on Ebay, KEH, and other sites have been selling for

a decent price, and I don't think they're being sold just to sit

around as collectors' pieces.<BR><BR>

I really wish Minolta would bring back a high end film body and stay

in the game!<BR>

Jed

I think it's unlikely that any of the major manufacturers will release a new high-end film camera, except maybe Leica (they're always the exception of the rule), or even <i>any</i> 35mm film camera, in the future. If you want one, you can still buy one of their last offerings.

OK, I suppose the Maxxum 9 will have to be my dream, then.<BR> But, why couldn't they at least keep producing the 7 or the 9 (or have a large production run of a couple thousand and stock pile them for the next 3-5 years until we see at what level film usage stabilizes) so that Minolta is up with Canon and Nikon?<BR> It's pretty sad when you look at B&H and Nikon is offering the F6 as its best 35mm and Minolta has what...a Maxxum 70 date? Give me a break! I can see the point about digital is the future, though. It just looks bad not to have a high-end body for sale that is in production. :-)<BR>

Jed

It would be throwing money away for KM to produce a high end film camera there just isn't the market for it anymore. I think it looks worse that KM don't have a larger selection of DSLR's (the future if you like it or not, this isn't a film vs. digital comment), and have you tried to find a SSM lens in the last few months.

Jedidiah- Once I see which way Sony/KM is going in the DSLR market, I'll give you first dibs on my Maxxum 9. Odds are I'll need to sell it in order to buy the Pro DSLR. As for KM ever getting back into film- don't hold your breath. KM will sell off the camera division to Sony, before they come back with any film camera. (Think end of 2006, early 2007.) So, maybe you better contact Sony to see if they'll come out with a film camera.

You can still buy the 7 and the 9 new. You don't have to resort to the Maxxum 70.

<p>

Why don't they make more 7s and 9s and stockpile them? Because they're in the business to make money, not to make huge stockpiles that will sell ever slower.

if you want a dream camera try the 9Ti :)very hard to find....

Jed - have a look at the market plans and projections from KM in the last 2 to 20 months .......

 

Original 5 year plan envisaged "photo imaging" business in total declining to 10% of KM sales and contributing less than 2% KM profit.

 

Recent press release states "expedite the schedule to scale back photographic business, to drastically restructure not only production but also development" and "we will aggresively shift managment resources to the other KM Group companies" as part of plan "to reduce slightly over ten per cent employees" ( their english not mine ).

 

That says to me that KM does not see photo imaging as an important element of their future particularly when you also see "promotion of collaborations" as a stated objective.

 

Much has been made of the link-up with Sony by KM but it does not even warrant a mention in the recent Sony reports ( covering their losses ! ) and photography business for Sony appears in "Other Business" with about 5 or 6 other small areas of importance. ( Interesting that this development which for KM is significant, possibly the most significant recent positive move, never surfaced in all the rumours we have previously had .)

 

Looking at the above it does seem to me that there has been something of a "self-fulfilling prophecy" and a weird form of "asset stripping" going on at KM presumably spear-headed by the Konica element of the amalgamation who appeared to be the "winners" of the power battle for control of the new entity and who had little interest in the photography business compared to the old Minolta elements who lost out.

 

To address your original question - no I am afraid I do not see KM producing another slr film camera of any sort or stockpiling the existing top-end models and tying up a lot of money in slow moving stock that could be better used elsewhere ( in their view ).

 

It must be a distinct possibilty that any future dslr camera will be called a "SonyKM" given the relevant sizes of the participants and it is possible to speculate that the whole "photo imaging" business could be subsumed into Sony entirely.

 

All is not gloom as there will be many, many Minolta cameras around for a long time to come on the second hand market - enough to see me out anyway - and of course your lenses will still ( hopefully ) fit whatever digital offerings there are.

Alright. I do understand the making money/marketing part.<BR><BR>

However, photographers are a wierd bunch, and there is something that I really feel KM is missing the boat on.<BR>

If we follow the logic of this thread so far, Canon would be nuts to still make/sell the EOS 1-V; Nikon would be crazier still to have just debuted the F6 last year - for what, $1900 a pop? I mean come on, they know as well as you and I that DSLRs are the future.<BR>

The difference is prestige. I agree that most pros will probably never shoot Minolta. However, if they had a pro offering, some pros will buy it. Quite a few ametures such as Clinton and myself would buy one because we like the features. And entry level buyers will buy into the system because they see themselves upgrading in the future.<BR>

It's like this. In your neighborhood, how many people buy a "starter house" with hopes of just staying in that house forever? At least where I live, most people dream of trading up in a few years...over and over. Same way with photographers. The average soccer Mom doesn't NEED a Maxxum 7. But they would purchase a 70 and dream about a 7 someday. While they're dreaming, they may make a few purchases in glass from KM. Certainly an external flash somewhere along the way. Maybe some filters, etc.<BR><BR>

However, with no large guns in the lineup, Minolta is viewed by the "pros" or advanced amatuers as a limited lineup. Too limited. So that has a trickle down effect, because on Internet forums, in Photo magazines, etc, the word gets out "don't buy a Minolta - your options are too limited." Now most of us know that IS B.S. for probably 90% of shooters out there that buy SLRs/DSLRs.<BR><BR>

BUT HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU HEARD THAT? Seems like every week in some forum I hear a WARNING: Minolta lenses are too limited. Bodies are too few, etc, etc. This is killing KM at the grass roots level. That is where you build your base. Little Johnny grows up shooting Minolta in high school, and guess what he'll use in college? Guess what brand of lens Grandpa will get him for his 18th birthday? etc, etc. YOU HAVE TO BUILD the system, and they will come. By 2001, Minolta had it nearly built. It boggles the mind how they demolished the building in four years...and I'm standing here looking at the rubble while the wrecking crane is motoring out of the yard, wondering if we should rebuild the south wall or start completely over.<BR>

Jed

But the photo companies are not really judged by their film lineup anymore. The market is in digital. The system will not be built by a film camera. And the addition or reintroduction of a film camera will add no credibility to the lineup.

 

If grandpa is buying somebody a camera for their 18th birthday, it will ne a 5D/D5 or plastic EOS. KM needs to fill the digital line up.

 

To be honest, the KM selection is too limited. 6MP max, two models. How many models does Nikon have? How many does canon have?

 

On the bright side, Sigma just announce that a lens or two will be made with the A mount. (dpreview)

 

EOS 1v � Probably enough pros use canon to warrant continued production. They have been making that body for a long, long time and are probably spending nearly nothing on improving production efficiencies. They are also probably making a mint on each one because it is such a mature product.

 

Nikon F6 � the rumor was that the expensive development was done when the shift to digital hit hard. Nikon could probably fit that production line in my garage. If their cost is $1000 and they make 20 a day (which they could in my garage), that is still a $5MM/yr business.

 

chad

OK, so I got a little carried away. :-)<BR>

You are right the future is in the DSLR bodies. Let's hope Minolta will focus on the top-end lineup then, and start cranking. It's like breathing a sigh of relief that when you look at B&H, the 5D is $599. Perfect. Minolta brought that camera out at the right price; future installments should be in the wings now, and they will be up with Canon/Nikon releases and features.<BR>

Personally, I hope they better the other camera makers, not necessarily in the MP race, but in ergonomics and usability like they have in the past. That is Minolta's strong suite.<BR>

Jed

Chad, you did bring up a good point that I forgot to address in the last post: if Nikon can do the "garage sized" line for the F6, Minolta could do the same for a Maxxum 9 (or comparable) high-end body. Just do enough to make a little profit, but mostly, to keep the parts available, and keep the prestige.<BR>

Jed

Alright, I give up. Digital wins. The last few minutes I was just comparing some shots of our daughter I took with my Maxxum 7 last night, scanned on Nikon Coolscan V 4000dpi, compared to same shots taken on wife's 7D. Amazing. I upsampled the 7D images to the same size as the film scans in PS. No grain at ISO 100. Beats any color film I've shot.<BR><BR>

Guess for me the only reason to have a film camera is for B&W darkroom...<BR>

Jed

Another thing I do not know is if the EOS1v and Nikon F6 share chassis, coverings, etc, with any of their digital cousins. That would have a significant impact on the cost of those components that go into those bodies.

 

Tell a supplier that you need 400 pieces a month - that is job shop quantity and very expensive. Tell them you need 4000 a month, that is another story.

 

chad

Maxxum 9 ti available at B&H costs a lot though. Im sure I read somewhere that Minolta are no longer making any film bodies.

Chris- If B&H still has a Maxxum 9Ti for sale it just goes to show you how hard a time KM has selling a high-end camera. Minolta (not KM) only produced a total of 500 bodies, half of them were for the US market. Based on my memory, Minolta only had about 25-50 people producing the Maxxum/Dynax 9, so the 9Ti was probably all done during one production run. As I had posted before, the 9Ti was a Special Edition camera designed to celebrate Minolta's 75th Anniversary. Due to the low number of bodies produced, not every camera store who sold Minolta products were offered the chance to buy one. In my state, only one 9Ti was offered to one of several camera shops selling Minolta cameras. My friend who owns the store bought it and put it away, never loading any film or batteries in it. Before he put it in storage, he allowed me to handle it, and I was the only person other than himself, who touched it after it was shipped to his store. As the body is made of titanium, fingerprints always gets left on it. The serial numbers of the 9Ti started with #001 and ran to #500, only 3-digits. My friend's 9Ti has a serial number of '007'. The brown presentation box it came in was lined in red velvet and the camera came with a brown leather strap.

Nothing shows up at B&H for either Maxxum 9Ti or 9 ti - I don't think they're for sale at any price. Can't seem to find one (even though I probably couldn't afford what someone would want for it if I did!)<BR><BR>

On another note, did anyone happen to notice that EVERY Minolta film body is "Out of stock" at B&H? Maybe they are making a clean break from it all, and just going to pump out the best digital bodies now... I suppose there's enough Maxxum 7 and 9 bodies out there to keep cropping up on Ebay whenever we all get to hankering for some good ol' B&W film shooting. :-)<BR>

Jed

Jedidiah- There is no Maxxum 9Ti for sale on eBay. The seller seems legit as he has a high feedback rating. However, the description for the camera is incorrect, not even mentioning the titanium body, but mentions stainless steel and zinc. The picture is correct. The asking price is only $1, with no mention of a minimum. The description does say it was was released for the 70th anniversary (my mistake, as I said 75th).

 

I've seen similar auctions of the 9Ti in the past, but the seller usually has a '0' rating, which is a give away that it is bogus. Or, if I ask the seller what serial # is on the camera, I get no response and the item is yanked by eBay. No one is going to sell such a camera for adollar.

Man, I really need more sleep. My prior post should read- "There is ONE Maxxum 9Ti..."

If I am seeing the same auction, the auction is for a CD copy of a manual.

 

The last 9ti I saw on eBay was sold by Central Camera about 9 months/a year ago and sold for over $2500.

 

chad

The Maxxum 9Ti on eBay was BOGUS!!! I emailed the seller who supposedly was a 'Power Seller' with a high feedback rating, and asked for the serial number of the camera, and I put the item into my 'watched' list. This morning the item was gone from eBay, and I had a warning from eBay about dealing with sellers off line. Apparently, this type of seller will get your email address and offer to sell the item without going thru eBay. DON'T DO IT!!! When I emailed the seller, I blocked my email address from being sent, as I knew the auction was not real. If the seller was legit, they would have responded thru eBay and not directly to me. The seller said to contact seller before bidding. This is done to get your email address.

 

In the past, I've seen 'sellers' offering a Minolta 600mm f/4.0G lens with no reserve price and is a 3-day auction. You have to ask yourself, why would anyone offer a lens that retails for $6,000 for a dollar and no reserve? They wouldn't. The other bogus sales would have a seller with zero feedback, however, in this auction, the seller was a 'Power Seller', with a feedback of '14,500' and a 99.5% positive. The feedback even showed other items for sale. The crooks are getting smarter in their approach.

 

If you see this type of auction (too good to be true), report it to eBay security.

The old marketing model where you start off with a Chevrolet and wind up eventually with a Cadillac is dying. This week the NY Times had a review of a 10 MP Sony SLR camera with a fixed zoomn lens. DSLR prices have just been too high to lure non-professionals in large numbers away from EVF fixed lens type cameras. I collect and use many types of film cameras. My only digital camera is a Canon PowerShot G3. This is a 4MP model. The only thing I don't like about it is the shutter lag. It will make a very respectable 8X10 with minimal cropping. I would consider adding a 7.1MP G6 to cut down on the lag and to let me make decent 11X14 prints. The lens on the G6 is the same as the one on the earlier G5 and G4 models and is quite good even close up. The viewfinder and EVF type digital cameras with fixed zoom lenses offer so many features and such high quality for the money that the DSLR market is just too small to support many manufacturers. With Sigma now out of the DSLR race that leaves just Canon, Nikon and Konica-Minolta. This doesn't count Sony's 10MP fixed lens model.

 

I agree that new high end film SLR cameras will not be introduced but I also agree that the market is full of perfectly good used ones. Tonight I shot a roll of UC400 print film at a family gathering. The camera was a Minolta X-700. The lenses were a 28/1.9 Vivitar Series 1, a 35/1.8 MC Rokkor, a 50/1.4 MD Rokkor-X and a 100/2.5 MC Rokkor. The 35/1.8 never got used. The other lenses were shot about half with the 280PX flash and half with available light. The X-700 has a very bright viewfinder, interchangeable focusing screens, a sensitive meter and an excellent TTL flash system. It was introduced in 1981 and still gives results which compare favorably with what much newer equipment will deliver. If you are willing to spend a little money to have a film SLR overhauled then you can enjoy it for as long as film is practical to use.

Just think; the Minolta SR-2 35mm slr came out the year before the Nikon F or first Canon slr .

Jeff- There was an article about Olympus' marketing plan, which I quoted the other week on this forum. Basically, it said that there is a glut of manufacturers (about 30) in the lower priced digital market which has made profits hard to come by as each manufacturer cuts prices in order to be competitive. This is the reason that Olympus announced that they were getting out of the lower end market in order to concentrate on DSLRs where the profit margins are higher. This is also why Sony wants in to this segment of the market.

Jed, you said you give up, digital wins, because you compared the colors of a scanned piece of film and your wife's digital camera.

 

But isn't it better to compare a printed photo from your film, and a printed digital photo? And then compare what photo just looks better? I bet the photo from film.... And if you use the right type of film I think you still get good colors. Just an idea... I think a photo is a photo when you see it on paper, not on a computer screen.