Jump to content

'Hard' continuos light source and color correction


Recommended Posts

<p>Hi,<br>

I am looking into purchasing some kind of hard, continuos - and affordable! - light source (think Helmut Newton) for a home studio set up.<br>

I am actually shooting on instant film, using a modified Polaroid 600se camera, and having not experienced tungsten lights etc previously am unsure on the need to colour balance (or not) in an analogue situation where white balance etc can't be set in camera (The 600se can take regular screw in filters if these would be needed).<br>

I'm also keen not get anything that will ramp my electric bill through the roof (Although I also wouldn't ever plan on having the lights on for too long, particularly hot ones).<br>

I see a lot of Hedler C12 lamps on ebay that people have recommended before, but I am curious of other hard light options that would give a reasonable spread, particularly any cool light alternatives (most likely fluorescent though as I fear HMI's are probably going to be out of my budget).<br>

Any input greatly appreciated.<br>

Will</p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>Don't think I'd recommend HMI's unless you're shooting video/film. They are great, since the lamps hold the WB till they expire, but also they are quite expensive. But, you could get less intensive lamps and you could employ Rosco filter/s in the front of them....you could even balance those lights to daylight. Smith-Victor comes to mind (maybe I'm dating myself :>), but there are others. Naturally, filtering will depend on the film you end up using.</p>

<p>Les</p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>I would go for the Hedler C12's. The RMSP for eg a three lamp set is ridiculously high, but can be found for (just as ridiculously) low 2nd hand prices (On the Dutch version of eBay - called Marktplaats .nl - there e.g. currently is a working C12 lamp + lightstand + bag for sale for little over US40) . Only possible issue could be to find appropriate barndoors and other lightmodifiers to go with them.<br>

<br />As far as power consumption is concerned, you can of course always put lower watt bulbs in them. I e.g. have several multi lamps sets of Hedlers lying around, some with 1250W bulbs, some with 1000W bulbs and some with 350W bulbs.<br>

I especially use the last ones when I need some extra light, but want to shoot with my aperture wide open and high ISO. Since the bulbs are used at their full, but lower output, rather then being dimmed down with possible consequences for the color temperature (tungsten normallt 3200-3400K, but dimmed ? ? ? K)<br>

Or you could go for Redheads. Again the classic Ianiro units will come at a hefty price, but there are plenty of much lower priced, while still pretty good quality (since the lamps are technically very simple, there's less electronic hardware to mess up), around, for as low as US $ 61 for a 800W unit.</p>

<p>I wouldn't tinker around with trying to mount filters on your Polaroid camera, due to the small diameter of the lens most likely to take too much time and effort to find an appropriate sized filter.<br>

Better just put some sheets of tungsten/daylight conversion filter (eg Roscoe 1/2 Blue CTB Color Conversion Gel Filter, only $ 6.48 a piece) on the lamps instead.</p>

<p>Haven't worked with LED units as I shoot digital and consequently want to stay away from possible color temperature and wavelengh, and never considered HMI light because of the high cost, especially since I already have several Hedler C12 units lying around.</p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

<p><em>I had previously considered a redhead bootleg but was a bit worried about fire risk, particularly in a home environment</em></p>

<p>Well, they do get pretty hot, as is to be expected since they lack forced air cooling. But from experience I don't think they provide a real fire hazard, on condition of course they're used in a sensible way (no paper or cloth on the housing).<br>

When I used them I would tape (using simple masking tape) sheets of Lee filter on the barndoors (which do get pretty hot) without any problems (apart from hardened out glue residue on the barndoors, and due to the heat warped (but not melted) sheets of filter material</p>

<p>Advantage though is that they (both original and knock offs) usually come with a swivel mount that allows them to be put on a lightstand (although that doesn't take an umbrella) and barndoors.<br>

Also the lamp housing allows the filament to be moved forward and backward which make can give the light a wider or smaller angle.<br>

<br />But the Hedlers of course are much smaller, although they need an additional swivel head/umbrella mount, and of course additional barndoors.<br>

But compared to the redheads they do cool down much faster after usage.</p>

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>Your Instant film is most likely daylight balanced so either your light gets up to 5000/5500K or you filter either the light source (when mixing with daylight) or your camera if the light (or multiples) is the only illumination...HMI will be expensive and filtering a tungsten source will burn through filters if not placed at a sufficient distance (at movie shoots they have 4x4' frames placed a couple of feet in front the light source). Also, you're loosing quite a bit of light, whereas your camera needs quite a lot.<br>

So there isn't really a slam dunk solution.<br>

The best and cheapest i can think are fluorescent daylight, Kino Flo, Lowel Scandles which you can't really dim down. Otherwise i would look at LED Fresnel, the standard here being ARRI.<br>

As for your reference, Helmut usually traveled with a Metz CT45 for his Hasselblads and rented strobes. If you're thinking of Peter Lindbergh, who's are the master of continuous hard light (so many really...Herb Ritts...), that was a 1.2K HMI or the big ones 4 or even 12k on location and mostly 4K HMI in the studio. The large ones have the genius advantage of creating a hard light out of a very large fresnel, hard and soft to the same time...</p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p><em>Your Instant film is most likely daylight balanced so either your light gets up to 5000/5500K or you filter either the light source (when mixing with daylight) or your camera if the light (or multiples) is the only illumination...HMI will be expensive and filtering a tungsten source will burn through filters if not placed at a sufficient distance (at movie shoots they have 4x4' frames placed a couple of feet in front the light source). Also, you're loosing quite a bit of light, whereas your camera needs quite a lot.</em><br /><em> So there isn't really a slam dunk solution.</em><br /><em> The best and cheapest i can think are fluorescent daylight, Kino Flo, Lowel Scandles which you can't really dim down. Otherwise i would look at LED Fresnel, the standard here being ARRI.</em><br /><em> As for your reference, Helmut usually traveled with a Metz CT45 for his Hasselblads and rented strobes. If you're thinking of Peter Lindbergh, who's are the master of continuous hard light (so many really...Herb Ritts...), that was a 1.2K HMI or the big ones 4 or even 12k on location and mostly 4K HMI in the studio. The large ones have the genius advantage of creating a hard light out of a very large fresnel, hard and soft to the same time...</em></p>

<p>Well, a very nice, theoretically sound, statement<br>

But from a real world point of view, not exactly very realistic recommendations for a beginner who wants to make his first steps into playing around with 'hard continuous light'</p>

<p>I think I can safely say that if someone starts to take his first steps into this area, it won't be on anything resembling a film set. Nor will he have the money to invest into $1,000+ Kino Flo light sets http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Kits/ci/12435/N/4232862101 or other sophisticated HMI lighting set ups.<br>

A nice touch to mention the very basic set up Helmut Newton used to work with (did see him at work on location once, using just a simple Pentax SLR, a Polaroid Image instant camera, and - what looked like - a Hasselblad 500CM, and indeed just Metz 45CT flash) and in fact contradicting the whole 'Kino Flo, Lowel candles, LED' statement.</p>

<p>So from a personal working experience, rather then theoretical, point of view I can only repeat that you really can, without risk of melting, maybe only of a little warping, tape a sheet of lee filter on a redhead of C12 at a distance of 10 inches or so by simply taping it on the barndoors.<br>

And really don't need a 4'x4' frame and sheet of filter (just look at the lighting of many on location interviews on television, just a lamphead with a sheet of diffuser filter taped on the barndoors</p>

<p>I can assure you you can get really good results even if only with a simple tungsten lamp, be it redhead, Hedler C12, or whatever you can depending on your finances get hold of.<br>

<br />To illustrate that a slow tech/low investment set up (just one or two 1000W halogen lights, with or without an umbrella/diffuser, and with or without a simple collapsible reflection screen), all taken way - for professional use by the models or their agencies -back when in my film shooting days.<br>

So with film speeds between ISO 64 and IS) 320, and a 2.8/80-200 Nikon AF-D lens wide open (being an aspiring photographer I for a long time didn't have the money nor - based on my shooting technique back then - need for a faster dedicated 'portrait' lens in those days ) : )</p>

<p>http://www.pbase.com/paul_k/image/61044463<br>

(cheapo tungsten film lamp/Kaiser Kino Leucht, silver umbrella, silver reflection screen Lee tungsten/daylight conversion filter on the lamp)</p>

<p>http://www.pbase.com/paul_k/image/61052702<br>

(cheapo tungsten film lamp/Kaiser Kino Leucht, silver umbrella, silver reflection screen)</p>

<p>http://www.pbase.com/paul_k/image/121732318<br>

http://www.pbase.com/paul_k/image/61052700<br>

(cheapo tungsten film lamp/Kaiser Kino Leucht with Hensel standard flash reflector + grid)</p>

<p>http://www.pbase.com/paul_k/image/121732325<br>

(cheapo tungsten film lamp/Kaiser Kino Leucht, silver umbrella, silver reflection screen Lee tungsten/daylight conversion filter on the lamp)</p>

<p>and a more recent shot<br>

http://www.pbase.com/paul_k/image/161540859<br>

(Hedler C12, with Hensel standard flash reflector + grid, Lee diffusor filter on the lamphead, Nikon DF )<br>

The studio was left unharmed after the shoots, nothing burned down, and I still have/use most of the filters I used back then (why replace something when it's not broken/melted, but only maybe a little warped)</p>

<p>And yes, I have a big closet with all the photographic paraphernalia/hardware I collected over the years :)</p>

<p> </p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>Fluorescent is generally a soft source, LED bright enough to be useful is expensive and HMI is extremely expensive. Your best bet is tradtional tungsten hot lights. I'm in the U.S. so this is the first time I've seen Hedler. If you can buy Lowel where you are, you might want to look at the Lowel Quartz D, Lowel Omni or Lowel Pro Lite. The first two are open-facing focusing lights in the 500-1000 watt range. The Pro is basically the same but does have a plain glass front (not a fresnel lens) and is up to 250 watts. I think the D might sell for around $200 maybe $250 these days, and the other two are cheaper. All are availalbe used for half that price or less, and are very rugged so it's safe to buy them used. If you are in Europe they can use 240-volt lamps.<br /><br />There are also focusing spotlights with fresnel lenses from all sorts of manufacturers. Here, Mole Richardson used to be the big brand, and there is Altman, which makes mostly stage lighting. We also get Arri. Again, most can be purchased used at half price or less, especially older gear.<br /><br />Yes, putting a gel in front of huge 5000-watt light on a movie set can melt it. But the smaller lights I'm talking about -- which are all you need -- can have a gel on them all day without a problem. The gels are heat resistant.<br /><br />Power consumption is not a issue. As you say yourself, you're not going to have them turned on all day, just long enough to shoot. A 500-1000 watt light takes maybe as much electricity as a toaster, coffee maker or hair dryer. You use those in your home, I presume, and don't worry about the cost since you don't leave them on all day.</p>
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...