Three cameras to consider

<p>My D7000 died after about 185,000 shots and I would like to replace it with a full frame camera. I keep bouncing around the following three: D610, D750, D800E. I've read some older posts here on Photo.net about the D800 series having focusing issues. I was wondering if there was anyway to know if you were getting a D800E with any issues <em>before</em> purchase, such as being able to check certain serial #'s. I know there was a lot of talk about moiré but it seems like most people didn't think that was a big deal. I know there's always issues with all cameras but the D800E would be out of warranty, whereas the 610/750 I would buy new and under warranty. I recently viewed two photos shot on 750 and 800. They both looked great but I didn't view them side by side and it was a couple of days apart. I think the 800 shot was a little better but maybe that was the marketing hype working me over. <br />Anyway, as far as the D610 & D750 are concerned, If they both have the same/similar sensor isn't the image quality the same? I know D750 has better focusing ability, higher ISO, tilt screen, etc... but the final image quality is my main concern. BTW, I'm leaning more towards the D610/D750 but I am curious about the D800E since they're fairly cheap right now and I do like it's more robust feel. </p>

<p>IMO the whole D800 focusing 'problem' was, due to internet hysteria, blown out of proportion, and simply became a dead stop for fanboys to spell doom over Nikon.<br>

The 'issue' was that with an early batch of D800's, when use with a wide angle wide open, the left AF point indicator would/might be incorrect.<br>

I personally never ran anything like that, despite being an early adapter, also simply because I simply don't shoot with a wide angle wide open (Don't use a wide angle very often anyway, and if I do, I want the most DoF as possible so as a rule always stop down the lens as much as possible/a few stops)<br>

Only time I did have an AF issue with it was after I dropped it from abut 3 feet on a concrete floor, after which NPS had to recalibrate the AF, but something similar happened with my D3.</p>

<p>The moire thing is as you say a non issue, really depends on the subject you shoot and in real work very rarely, if ever happens.<br>

With my D800's I, in a period over 4 years and ten of thousands of shots, only ran into something that kind of resembled moire one time, when shooting someone in costume made of what I think was some kind of tweed.<br>

Looked horrible when viewed at in a small format, but disappeared when enlarged on a big format.</p>

<p>IMO biggest difference between the three;<br>

-D800E : lots of pixels which puts high demands on the lenses, pro level built (which also means pretty 'big' and heavy compared to e.g. mirrorless, very capable AF and high ISO<br>

- D750: less, but still plenty, pixels, much more prosumer built quality (smaller and lighter then a D800, although that does not need to be a disadvantage) excellent (faster) AF and high ISO (between one and one and a half stop over the D800/800E, reportedly in the same league as the DF)<br>

- D610: basically the entry level FX Nikon, apart from the improved shutter (after the oil spot issue) almost identical to the D600. Same number of pixels as the D750, lesser AF and high ISO (but still pretty decent), definitely consumer built quality (but IMO still much better and sturdier then many mirrorless).</p>

<p>If your main criteria is image quality I'd go for the D800E. Yes, it's 'old' (introduction in 2012) but you can still find plenty of only lightly used ones.<br>

I did consider the D750 when it was introduced, but didn't like the built quality and preferred the extra pixels of the (in my case) D800 (I often have to crop afterward to get the correct frame)<br>

Eventually, after the introduction of the D500, went for a 2nd D800, a real old one with 120K+ clicks, but it was dirt cheap, and, as it turns out, still works flawlessly</p>

<p>What kind of photography do you do? The D610 has the advantage of being cheapest, at the expensive of features; the D750 the fastest and best in low light, at the expense of more esoteric features (1/8000th speed, viewfinder shutter - things basically you never in your D7000 either); the D800e (*) arguably best built, high resolution, more features but not a sports camera. Note that high resolution isn't necessarily the same thing as "better image quality", and that larger files also put larger demands on your computer, disk space and so on.<br>

It comes down to matching your needs to the feature set on offer. So without knowing what you shoot and which features are most important to you, answering the question isn't really possible. The simple answer, though, is that the D750 is the most all-round of the three, and physically quite similar to your D7000, so it'll be familiar.</p>

<p>As always, do consider also whether full frame advantages really do come into play for your type of photography, and how well you're covered with lenses. The D7200 is also an awfully well-rounded piece, and a lot cheaper - definitely worth considering if you do not specifically need the benefits of full frame.</p>

<p>____<br>

(*) For what it's worth, at this point if you'd prefer this one, I'd get the D810 instead. Any D800e still not sold has been in the store for a long time potentially unused, which isn't ideal. And the D810 is very likely one of the next cameras to be replaced, which might play a role in the decision too.</p>

<p>The D600 will have a lifetime warranty on the shutter from Nikon, and buying the cheapest camera will let you spend more $$ on lenses. I ended up spending about $6,000 on lenses (all used from ebay) to get the full potential from D800E. The D800E can give great results IF consistently used on a tripod. It's NOT a "family outing" though. I ended up buying a D5300 for that, along with "street" shooting. Getting an expensive camera and then going cheap on lenses is the classic beginner's mistake. I'll mention that you really won't be gaining all that much buying a 24mp FX over the 24mp D7200, unless you do a lot of night shooting without flash. I'll also mention that I'm planning on skipping the D810 entirely as a used one is ~$800 more than a used D800E, and the difference gets me NOTHING. I've come to think that for more interesting photos, at this point money is better spent on travel than photo gear.</p>

<p>Kent in SD</p>

 

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<p>If your main criteria is image quality I'd go for the D800E. </p>

 

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<p>Yes, if only concerned with IQ and you will use only premium lenses and consistently use a tripod. It took me several months of steady use before I figured that out. I regularly make and sell big enlargements, and if you are doing that this is the camera to have (with appropriate lenses.)</p>

<p>Kent in SD</p>

<p>Hi Guys, Interesting replies. <br /> Paul, with modern plastics today the D750 is probably strong enough but there's something about the "pro" feel of the 800 cameras that just makes everything right in the world. Like driving a clunker and a ferrari - they both get you from point A to point B but one just feels better even if it's parked. A psychological hangup of mine... I have quality glass ranging from 14mm to 200mm and try to shoot on tripod as much as possible. It actually bugs me to take it off the tripod.<br /> Wouter, the type of photography I do is mainly events, headshots, some photojournalism, etc... but on my own time I like to hike and shoot nature, mostly landscapes. I'd like to eventually start selling landscape prints. <br /> Kent, when you say "D600 has a lifetime warranty on the shutter" does that apply to all Nikons or just the D600?<br /> Thanks everyone.<br /> I forgot that I originally wanted to know if there was a difference between the two 24MP cameras, D610 & D750 as far as image quality. And also if there was anyway of knowing before purchase of a used D800/E if a it had any focusing issues.</p>

<p>Eric.<br>

I own a d810 and its auto focus is razor sharp t all distances and in low light. </p>

<p>-O</p>

<p>Hi Owen, I didn't read up on any issues with the D810, the focusing issues I read about were with the older D800/E models. A new D810 is almost double cost of a used D800/E, a bit out of my budget right now.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I forgot that I originally wanted to know if there was a difference between the two 24MP cameras, D610 & D750 as far as image quality. And also if there was anyway of knowing before purchase of a used D800/E if a it had any focusing issues.</p>

 

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<p>1. For general photography you will see no difference between 24mp cameras. I'd throw in the D600 as it and D610 are the same camera. Nikon changed the name so they would resume selling. The D600 only was given a life time warranty because of the oil issue. Finally, no one looking at shots made from D600, D750, D7200 are going to see any difference when it comes to general photography. None of my paying customers were seeing any difference between shots from D7100 and D800e with prints 11x14 and under.</p>

<p>2. The way I look at the "focusing issue" is (a) internet forums really hype this stuff (b) it affected a VERY small number of cameras first released © if an owner actually experienced it they would have certainly sent it in for FREE service. Non issue. Do keep in mind D800 series are large and heavy. I went back to DX for family outings, street shooting.</p>

<p>Kent in SD</p>

<p>There is a website that tests cameras and gives a few metrics to go by. It doesn't test things like "usuability" or AF accuracy, just the sensor. Here's the three 24mp cameras compared. Note the main difference is the D7200 has one less stop of ISO, topping at ISO 1660. That's basically it:<br>

https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Nikon-D7200-versus-Nikon-D750-versus-Nikon-D610___1020_975_915</p>

<p>A comparision of resolution using D600, D610, D750 (D7200 has no posted results) and the best AF lens you can put on a Nikon (Sigma 50mm f1.4A):<br>

https://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Compare/Side-by-side/Sigma-50mm-F14-DG-HSM-A-Nikon-on-Nikon-D600-versus-Sigma-50mm-F14-DG-HSM-A-Nikon-on-Nikon-D750-versus-Sigma-50mm-F14-DG-HSM-A-Nikon-on-Nikon-D610__1307_834_1307_975_1307_915</p>

<p>Really no difference in image quality between D600, D610, D750. D750 has better AF, if that's useful for what you shoot. The difference between D600 & D750 (used) is about $700. That's enough to buy a very good lens or tripod.</p>

<p>Kent in SD</p>

 

<p>You wrote a while back that your DSLR was no longer working, and you needed to select a new one. Now you've posted several times wondering what body to buy. You've obviously done good research and looked at a group of fine cameras. You have received good replies. Since part of your decision-making is very personal (" . . . a psychological hangup of mine . . .") there is a limit to how much help you can get out of the information provided here. Select the camera that feels best in your hands and return to shooting.</p>

<blockquote>IMO the whole D800 focusing 'problem' was, due to internet hysteria, blown out of proportion, and simply became a dead stop for fanboys to spell doom over Nikon.<br />

<br />

The 'issue' was that with an early batch of D800's, when use with a wide angle wide open, the left AF point indicator would/might be incorrect.

I personally never ran anything like that, despite being an early adapter, also simply because I simply don't shoot with a wide angle wide open (Don't use a wide angle very often anyway, and if I do, I want the most DoF as possible so as a rule always stop down the lens as much as possible/a few stops)</blockquote>

 

<p>Um. There was <i>an</i> issue with quality control for the alignment of the AF sensor in very early D800s, which was rectified and which people could get Nikon to correct for them in their own cameras. There shouldn''t be any out there any more, though it's worth checking if you're buying an early one. Mine was one of the first D800Es in the UK and it didn't have this problem. I believe there's a serial number range that has the problem, and a dot in the tripod mount indicates that one of these cameras has been "fixed" - have a look for the Nikon press releases for the recall for details.<br />

<br />

Separately, there may still have been an issue with the autofocus module setup on the D800 series. I had considerable difficulties at wider apertures on the D800, more than my D700, though I'm sure both the resolution and the lack of AA filter magnified this. "Difficulties" included both unreliable autofocus and variability of AF fine tuning with focus distance. Weirdly I also saw more field curvature from the 14-24 than I think I've seen from my D810, which makes me think the mount flange distance might have been slightly off - though that's a guess. Or I could have been imagining it combined with a nut loose behind the viewfinder (user error). It in no way stopped me using the camera, but it did make me a bit nervous about anything faster than f/2 unless I was using live view. Which is unfortunate, because live view on the D800 is <i>also</i> compromised (half resolution and the camera being unresponsive until the image is written). You may be lucky with your phase detect AF, but enough people who aren't non-Nikon fanboys have reported similar AF variation that I don't think it was just my body. The D800's AF is in no way bad, it's just not 100% trustworthy, in my experience. Likewise the metering - I had better luck with both on my D700. The D810's autofocus isn't quite perfect either (I'm hopeful for a refresh with the D5's AF module) but it seems somewhat better, and the live view isn't as compromised. The metering seems a bit better too, but the D810 also has highlight priority to play with.<br />

<br />

There are a few other advantages to the D800 over the other bodies, notably the faster max shutter speed and separate control over the exposure lever (I don't <i>think</i> the D750 has this - can anyone confirm?) I prefer the handling to the D7x00/D6x0/D750 generation too, but that's as much my previous exposure to the D700. With a D810 I absolutely don't have D750 envy; having been used to a D800 I didn't really want the pixel downgrade to the D750, but it certainly had some appealing features compared with the older model. Which model I went with starting from scratch would depend what kind of things I shot.</p>

<p>separate control over the exposure <strong>lever</strong> (I don't <em>think</em> the D750 has this - can anyone confirm?)</p>

<p>Andrew, I don't understand this--are you talking about the lever on the lens mount?</p>

<p>The traditional Nikon F-mount lenses use a mechanical lever to control the opening of the aperture. If you want to change the aperture during live view/video capture, there needs to be a separate motor to control that mechanical lever in real time. The single-digit D3, 4, 5 series have that feature.</p>

<p>Back in 2009, I was mostly using a D700 without that capability, and the D700 doesn't have video capture. When I used a loaner D3X, I was surprised by that capability. Later on Nikon added that feature to the D800 and of course D810. And actually the D750 also has that extra motor. However, the Df (no video but has live view), D600/D610 and the D7000 series don't have that feature.</p>

<p>With the new E lenses, the motor to control the aperture resides inside the lens. Hence that extra motor in the higher-end bodies is no longer necessary.</p>

<p>Thanks, Shun. Likewise, I missed it on the D700 and knew the D8x0 had it, but the D750 was a gap in my knowledge.<br />

<br />

Other than during video and changing aperture during live view, the other time it comes up as useful is if you're holding down the DoF preview button while adjusting aperture. The particularly obscure case I've seen is with a variable zoom lens, which sticks to the aperture you asked for as you zoom on a D8x0 but justs holds the aperture lever still (and therefore doesn't show the correct aperture at different focal lengths) on a D700.<br />

<br />

Out of interest, do the recent cameras that can't do this with their aperture levers behave correctly (dynamically choose the selected aperture) with E lenses? I know there's no mechanical reason that they shouldn't, but since I've never seen Nikon talk about this in their manuals, I don't really know the behaviour. I should probably play with live view on my 200-500 with a department store D3400, at some point, just for education...</p>

For about half of the cost of a new D610, I would take a used D600 over a new D610. Same camera, and the left over money would buy a good lens. The D600 I had worked well and produced fine images. The D600 is an FX bargain.

 

The D750 vs D800 ( e or not e) is a tough comparison choice. I think basically the 750 operates a little faster but the D800 produces slightly nicer images. Probably depends on what you shoot. A D600 makes about the same image as a D750 at typical ISOs just to make the choice more difficult.