which is better for landscape and long exposure to be used with Voigtlander haliar lenses? Omd em1, Fuji Xt-1/2, or Sony a7... ?

<p>Hello all, <br /> I'm a new memeber here, and I'd introduce myself as an intermediate level hobbyist. Currently, I own Olympus OMD EM1 with voigtlander Nokton 17.5mm, and M Zuiko 9-18mm lenses. I'm mainly into Landscapes, city scape, night and long exposure photography (I play usually over 2 second exposures) while ocassional macro, candid and streest photography. <br /> I have fallen in love with voigtlander optics and the images they produce, specially super haliar 15mm, 10mm or 12mm...series. I'm in total love with my Nokton 17.5mm which produces really beautiful and dreamy like images. But my only problem is, i don't want to spend too much on buying olympus 7-14mm lens, pana is the same, they don't have filter threads, and it's too much hazzle. I'm thinking about moving to a new body, <strong>my considerations are Sony a7 range, Fuji Xt-1, Xt-2, Olympus omd EM5 Mk II. </strong><br /> <strong>What i like in EM1 : colours, the feel, grip, and and stability of IBIS and other general things. I'm in total love with this camera mainly because of the Nokton 17.5mm. I rarely use auto focus. </strong><br /> I don't expect the camera body to give me super fast continous shooting or i don't need whole line of lenses at my service. I'm quite happy with a 15mm voigtlander haliar(in a body like Sony a7) or 12mm/10mm Haliar on a Fuji XT-1 or 2 body. The main reason for update as of now: <br /> 1) The noise/hot pixel issue in long exposure shots in OMD EM1, which is quite known. <br /> 2) I want to use Voigtlander haliar lenses. I feel like the OMD EM1s' crop factor of 2, is too much and makes my life difficult.</p>

<p>I don't need 5,6 lenses, I can wait to build up a system for 1 or 2 years. I'm happy with a 35mm prime from voigt or like voigt (like Nokton 17.5mm) and a 15mm or 12mm super haliar II (which i can find for about 500-600 euros i think.). But i want it to be in the weights of MFT (OMD EM1 with Nokton 17.5mm is heavy) range, and not to be too heavy. What is more important for me are , good positioning of the control buttons, nice and firm grip feel (OME EM1 is great), and better noise control. Nice colours/rendering,shallow DOF capability is also nice to have. I may also want to do macro/candid street shots time to time. <br /> I'd like to know your advices, if you have had experiences with both in the scope i want to use them. I'm upto selling my current set-up, i think I can get more than 1500 euros with it for sure. And I'd also like your opinion on which lens would be best to start with if it's to go with a new body mentioned above? (I'm a graduate student in Paris, if it helps)<br /> Thank you very much.</p>

<p>ps: I like good image quality but i'm not at the level of pixel peeping, but future i may want to print bit of my photos large to hang on wall or something. Also i'd prefer to settle down with this system i'm going to buy for quite some time. I have had experiences before with Nikon D90, Omd EM5 and now EM1. <br /><br /><br /></p>

<p>I would go for the A7. The Haliar lenses are full frame so the full frame sensor of the A7 makes the most sense. </p>

<p>Thank you Jamie Robertson. I was also liking towards it, but I was afraid of the prices. Besides, I read some reviews and comments on A7 body being having some weaknesses compared to XT-1 or XT-2. But i know A7RII is really good, but for a hobbyist like me, it might be too expensive at this moment. What about A7R ? I heard A7 has silent shutter and A7R doesn't...I'd like to know the user experiences, feelings (rather than from reviews, as they seem to be too much tempting.)</p>

<p>Since you do not seem to be in a hurry, I'd wait a month or so and see what the camera companies have to offer. Photokina, the big show, is less than a month away. Usually I recommend getting what you want/need now because there will always be something new down the road but with this event within a month, waiting might just be prudent. It would be painful to make a purchase and then three weeks later have the camera of your dreams be released. Good luck and have fun.</p>

<p>My A7 has given no problems in eighteen months. I know nothing about Heliar lenses but there is much discussion on the Net about problems with Leica mount wide and super wide lenses on digital sensors. Finally, you should remember that the three options you are considering have different sensor sizes, which will give different effective focal lengths to the lenses you have or will have.</p>

<p>Either the Fuji or the Sony cameras will give you improved image quality over your micro 4/3rds set up. Even if the Heliar lenses don't give perfect results right up to the edge of the Sony sensor, you can still crop the images and end up with larger files than those from the Fuji. </p>

<p>I wouldn't worry about pixel count either. The full frame sensor of any A7 camera will be noticeable superior to the OM-D. </p>

<p>Just to confirm, I have never owned an A7 camera and have no intention of owning one. I like the micro 4/3rds cameras better overall. Their combination of small size and the wide range premium quality prime lenses make them ideal for me. I also own and love the Voigtlander 17.5mm f/0.95. It's an amazing lens.</p>

<p>Is it appropriate to be shopping APS-C sensor size to full frame? I'm a new and voracious Fuji X enthusiast, but long exposure low light cityscape work seems to spell full frame for ultimate results. Am I wrong on this?</p>

For what you intend to do and also your interest in using relatively lightweight, short focal length MF primes, a

FF mirrorless seems like the best alternative. I believe there is a shutter shock issue related to the first

generation A7r, so if you go in that direction make sure that the technique you plan on using can overcome

such limitations. FYI I am not a Sony owner and carry an m43, but I like using AF zooms and rarely carry a

tripod.

<p>Thanks all. Definitely, I will not be able to buy it right away, as first have to decide the body, and then sell my current set up, probably will take few months. <br /> Considering Sony A7, I read that camera body itself feels bit plastiky, though i haven't tried it myself. What is your opinion? for my to feel it well, firm and study is important. But i read A7RII, A7II have a solid feel. <br /> Considering Jamie and Kenneth's thoughts, I also think you both are right. May be my best bet considering long term settlement and fitting into my needs well might be Sony A7 range. Honestly, I'm not so knowledgeable about all the indepth details about shooting Voigtlander haliars lenses. But i totally love the way they look. Simply, I have fallen in love with voigtlander optics regardless of their little down-falls. <br /> I think Sony being little heavier than OMD EMs might not be a problem, my current MFT is almost around the same weights. Yes Jamie, infact this Nokton 17.5mm finally is the reason i fell in love with voigtlander lenses (of course i tried some of their other lenses via a friend). I only hope Sony A7 system with a Voigtlander lenses won't be too heavy like a DSLR, which i really don't want to happen. I will look into the shutter shock thing as well. <br /> Done : Actually, I'm not sure. First my budget is a concern as i'm still a student, then I don't really think personally, that you need ultimate results or you that you can have ultimate results only with FF. for example Olympus OMD EM5 is really good for Long exposures and noise is well controlled. But the controls are too cramped for my taste, very difficult in cold. MY goal is finding a suitable body to use with Voigtlander lenses :)</p>

<p>I added a 30S exposure with OMD EM1, I'd say OMD EM1 is fine with exposure below 90S, depending on how long you have been using the camera on. This result is also after reducing the dark frame(in built noise reduction), so you have to give the camera the same amount of your exposure which kind of delays at fast chnaging situations.</p><div></div>

<p>Don bright: And here there is a shot with 273S long with OMD EM1, even after noise reduction, it's unusable. But as I said, it's not a problem on Lumix bodies or EM5 MkI or mkII.</p><div></div>

<p>Sounds like the Voigtlander lenses are important to you and I think it is great that you know what to expect from them as to how they render an image. It's good to be early in the game and I think you did come to the right place even though there are and will be contributors much more knowledgable than I on Sony's and their different offerings. Hope this doesn't sound too redundant, but stay patient and exhaust the research on a camera, in this case know as much as you can about Sony. I believe I heard you say you did not want to fiddle with crop factors? In that case its full frame and Sony would be the one to focus on at this time. Build quality should be a concern as you want a lengthy time with your camera. I too understand some Sony's are built better than other Sony's. Again, someone here will chime in to offer compound advice.</p>

<p>Don Bright: Thank you. Sorry, for my problems with english, that i sometimes don't express what i want to say directly. <br>

As you stated, Voigtlander lenses are important. I love the images they produce, and the way they render tones, and colours (as you corrected what i wanted to say, but i didn't say well). <br>

My concern about built quality is not because i want it to last. It's because, it's so important for me to fall in love with the camera to go and take photos (the feeling in hands) and control buttons. Yes, i will have some month before i buy this. It seems to me considering my budget at the moment, Sony A7II would be the best option. I definitely don't have money to buy A7R II. If i wait 2,3 months the prize may go down of a7II (even thought i read it doesn't have so much upgrade to A7). I will only buy a USED Body. And probably CV 35mm F/1.4 or if i had enough money F/1.2, and a haliar 15mm II. Thanks for nice support... But your opinions are still welcome. </p>

<p>HELIAR, not "Haliar".</p>

I assume that when shooting those long exposures with an OMD that you turn off the IBIS system and use the

base ISO setting of 200. For such long exposure I would not expect shutter shock to be an issue with the A7r.

It may help if you could rent or borrow the A7 model that you are looking at before committing to a purchase.

From a cost prospective I would think that a used 1st generation A7 model would be the most economical.

Best of luck.

<p>Kenneth: <br>

Of course, I do. Actually the issue of Hot pixel of OMD EM1 is a quite wide known issue with the specific sensor (and OMD other bodies don't have this issue), I also got to know it right before i purchase the body and didn't think it'd be a problem. <br>

Thank you so much for the advice. I will of course buy a used one, as a student in a tight budget i've always bought used gear. I have now fixed my mind onto a model. I decided to buy a Sony A7 Mark II. I'd have also gone with A7 I, but i saw it's grip is not so good, and it's a very decisive factor for me. As i don't plan to change this system for quite sometime, I decide to wait a month or two and see if the price of A7 II will go down, and then buy a used one. Probably I will have collected few more money to buy two lenses by the time, Voigtlander 58mm F/1.4 and a Heliar 15mm, later may be a 35mm Nokton. Thanks all for advises! </p>

<p>I used to use the Olympus E-PL5 and it was excellent for long exposure photography. No problems with hot pixels. It's also very cheap to buy used :-)</p>

I'm not sure precisely when it will happen, but the A7ii is the Sony mirror less model due next for an update. So yes, it

may be advantageous to wait a while.

 

Also, just so you know, some A7Rii owners are saying that it doesn't handle long exposures (over 30 seconds) well - it

seems to yield noisy images under these conditions, at least according to some. I haven't heard of this happening with

the A7ii, but it might warrant some research.

<p>It's a tough call. The Sony A7R II has the best resolution at 42 MP, but Sony built the flange distance too close and most third party wide angles do weird things on the edges. Yes you can crop the edges out but then you lose the extra resolution and have a less reliable image size.<br>

The Fuji has lower resolution but will give you more reliable edge results with third party wide angles. The new 24MP Fuji sensor will give you pretty much the same image quality as the Sony A7R full frame 24 MP sensor at ISO 6400 and below. I went with Fuji because I have some old Zeiss glass, particularly the 15mm Distagon 2.8 that just gives a rendering that I love.</p>

<p>for MF legacy lens use with a specific brand, the sonys are really your best bet. i wouldnt consider another olympus, partially because of the awkwardness of the m4/3 crop factor with wide angle you've already encountered. the fuji is an excellent body, but they tend to work better with their own native lenses, many of which are excellent, though with a different character than voigtlander or zeiss. also fuji has a different color array from the sensor, so the body/lenses are really designed to work together. the zeiss touitts arent really preferred over the fuji lenses by fuji users and are always going on sale. </p>

<p><strong>Jamie:</strong> I also thought about, specially when i had my em5 body around, to keep both bodies, but then it's again problematic to carry too much bodies, weight and etc. :) Anyway, i don't want to complain while it's my fault that i can't afford enough to get a body which fulfills all these needs. </p>

<p><strong>Jon:</strong> Thank you very much for the important point Jon. I didn't know it. How ever, I'll not look at Sony A7R II. My budget only allows me at a used Sony A7 II. But will look further if they have noise issue. </p>

<p><strong>Michael:</strong> You're completely right. I was told this vignetting is because of numerical aperture(or the light cone and the distance between the sensor by a German camera shop and from physics point of view, it's true). And also the guy told me about the magenta and white fringes thing. But as i know, Voigtlander is kind of redesigning there leica M lenses to fit to Sony E mounts, aren't they? </p>

<p><strong>Eric:</strong> I think you totally understood and addressed my problem, which in fact seems to me that i had only rambled about. Recently I tried both Fuji X-T1 and Sony A7II in a camera shop; I totally love the feel and the look of Fuji Sony's feel is not great, but it had all the controls and fits my hand well, just that feeling which makes you to love the touch, go out and take photos feeling wasn't there. Regardless of all those things: My goal is to be able to use old/ voigtlander lenses(not always old, i can get the newer versions), the main reasons as you also said are:<br>

1) I love the their rendering, and look, colours etc. <br>

2) They can be purchased for reasonable prices (used ones and some new) and available in several focal lengths without a trouble.<br>

Even though, I like fuji feel and colours, it really won't help me with my budget on lenses. I'm only a Physics graduate student till next 4 years and i have no money to spend above 1000 euros for one lens at the moment :) (Even though Zeiss distagon and such lenses are beautiful, i can't afford their prices) which is one of the most important points. So as you said Eric, My best call would be Sony A7II. May be after my graduate work, I will have money to buy another camera, let;s say Fuji :D and they may have done something super cool by the time.<br>

Thank again guys for helping me with this choice.</p>

<p>i dont think the Fuji lenses are necessarily cost-prohibitive; they just announced a 23/2 for $500 USD. but my point was that you have specific interest in the Voigtlanders. Those will play better on a Sony body, even though there may be other UI/aesthetic considerations which come into play. An A7II sounds like a very acceptable choice; you get the in-body stabilization and its a 2nd-gen body. Good luck on your choice. </p>