shooting in low light in a church

<p>Hi all<br>

should i use shutter-priority mode (TV) when I shoot in wedding ceremony in a church? manual mode?<br>

the ceiling is high and its color is dark brown, low light, and flash is not allowed. It is a challenge especially when the bridal party walking down the aisle. what setting would you recommend? i appreciate your advise, as I don't have much experience in shooting wedding in a church. <br>

thanks</p>

<p>Anton</p>

<p>You likely need to use a decent lens that can pull this off like F1.4 or 1.8 and you likely (still) have to boost ISO's to match the shutter/aperture. I shoot in manual and always try to use the shutter that's fast enough to stop the action....and have enough DOF to capture the groom & bride in focus (that's somewhat subjective).</p>

<p>Les</p>

<p>THank you Leszek. I usually use 70-200 zoom lens f2.8 or f4. i think increasing the ISO to 2000 can solve the low light issue.</p>

Shoot manual, becauase the altar in the church is often well lit. Most of the churches are lit well enough to

shoot at a 1/15th of a second at an ISO of 400 to 800. Bring a tripod. Watch your white balance and be ready

to adjust the white balance. If your camera setting is set to auto white balance it probably won't work. The

colors will be way off. For example the brides white dress may look gray, blue, and even green! If you set

your white balance correctly you won't have to do any corrections using photoshop, or some other program.

This can save you hours and hours of corrections and every shot that you take will be crisp looking.

 

Also shoot in RAW. If something goes wrong and it usually does, you have much more latitude for

corrections.

 

In most churches you can use a flash as the people are walking down the aisle. I hope this church will allow this, so be sure to ask. So set your camera at 1/60th of a second at F5.6. An ISO setting of 400 to 800 will be fine. Also you can surely use a flash when the couples first kiss at the end of the wedding. I'd use the same settings.

 

Most churches no longer allow flash photography during the ceremony.

 

More information is needed from you.

 

I'm not sure what camera and lenses you are using, so I can't recommend an ISO setting over 800 at this

time. If it's an older camera, maybe 3 or 5 years old, or a newer inexpensive camera, I surely wouldn't trust

higher ISO's. Too many things can go wrong, such as stinky colors and high pixelations. The photos could

look horrible. You want to achieve strong vivid color saturations, such as something you would see out of a

magazine like National Geographic. Thats your goal. Hope this helps and I hope I don't sound too arrogant. I'm

simply trying to help you achieve complete success!

I recommend aperture priority and intensive practice with your hand held camera skills, or when you can, use of a tripod

or monopod, and of course large aperture ((f/1.4 to f/2.8) lenses.

<p>Hi Bob thank you for your advice, and I think it certainly helps me to understand how to avoid making bad mistakes, and create better photo.<br>

I use Canon 5d Mark ii, 24-105mm and 70-200mm lens F/4, and I know my lens are not fast enough in low light situation. I use auto white balance most of the time, and so I do have issue with correct color; I still need to practice custom white balance. I did not know ISO 800 or over can be an issue; I was told my camera do pretty good job when ISO is under 2000. I would use flash for sure if it is allowed in the church.</p>

<blockquote>

<p><em><strong>should i use shutter-priority mode (TV) when I shoot in wedding ceremony in a church? . . .</strong></em> <strong><em>low light, </em></strong>and <strong><em>flash is not allowed</em></strong>. . .</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>I definitely would NOT use Tv Mode, that is a recipe for disaster in regard to the DoF that will constantly be changing and my brain cannot reckon that extra variable when shooting on the hop under the pressure of time at an event like a Wedding.</p>

<p>I would use Manual Mode and mostly always Evaluative Metering. The choice of Metering Mode is very important and often never discussed or even considered. </p>

<p>Although using Aperture Priority can gain the same results as using M Mode - it is just I move more quickly in M Mode than using Exposure Compensation when shooting in Av Mode. Also, in Av Mode I run the risk of my attention being diverted momentarily and subsequently NOT noticing the Shutter Speed drop; on the other hand when in M Mode I am totally aware of that Shutter Speed, because I am manually setting it.</p>

<p>*</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>a challenge especially when the <em><strong>bridal party walking down the aisle</strong></em>. . . <br>

I use Canon <strong><em>5d Mark ii, 24-105mm and 70-200mm lens F/4</em></strong> . . . <br>

I still need to practice <em><strong>custom white balance</strong></em>. . .<br>

I did not know <em><strong>ISO 800</strong></em> or over can be an issue . . .</p>

</blockquote>

<p>If I were you, I’d buy a 50/1.4 or 50/1.8 – OR – 35/2 or 35/1.4 for that task. The EF50/1.8 MkII appears the least expensive solution, but a fast 35mm Prime might be more useful to your overall Lens Cache.</p>

<p><strong>Shutter speed:</strong><br>

A low light level Church can be as low as EV = 8. With either of those 50mm Prime Lenses, you can shoot at around F/2.0 and pull F/2~F/2.8 @ 1/400s~1/200s @ ISO800. Capture in raw files. Those Shutter Speeds combined with good shooting technique will address Subject Movement - and there is still room to drop to 1/50s in darker areas of the Church. </p>

<p><strong>DoF:</strong><br>

A 50mm Lens on a 5D for a Full Length Shot (Vertical Orientation) will provide about 4 ft DoF at F/2.8 and about 2½ ft DoF at F/2 – so the DoF will be slim and you need to be front on the two Subjects and or be critically aware of the DoF if you are shooting on an angle for Selective Focus; i.e. to Subjects one Subject in focus and the other out of focus (for example Bride in focus and Dad Out of Focus during the Processional).</p>

<p>To be safe with DoF, I would frame all those particular shots at about Full Length, but varying the tightness of various shots, including some in Horizontal Orientation to capture some of the Congregation, especially near the front of the Church so as to get the Mothers / Grandmothers in shot. </p>

<p>FWIW - with respet to DoF and Shutter Speed - "dark churches" haven't become darker just since digital was invented and what is described above is generally how one managed with a standard 80/2.8 lens on a 645 or 2¼ square camera, using ASA 800 film and no Flash.</p>

<p><strong>White Balance:</strong><br>

Although I do use a preset White Balance often, I probably would not consider using Custom White Balance for the Processional or the Recessional when shooting in Available Light. </p>

<p><strong>Image Quality:</strong><br>

A 5DMkII can do an excellent job at ISO800, if the exposure is correct and you know how to post process the raw files adequately.</p>

<p><strong>System Redundancy:</strong><br>

Note also that IF the two zoom lenses that you mentioned are the ONLY lenses you carry, then the addition of 50mm or 35mm Prime will act as a layer of lens redundancy, should your 24 to 105 lens fail. On that particular side note, you should have a second camera body, for the same reason.</p>

<p>WW</p>

<p>Anton,</p>

<p>Couple points in the format of questions with (my suggested) answers.</p>

<p>.</p>

<p>Q. <strong>What's the right shooting mode on the camera, in a church in low-light?</strong><br>

A. The only right answer to this question is: whatever works for you. Of course, to know what works for you, you need a fair bit of experience.</p>

<p>I prefer to stay in M (manual) mode all the time, for nearly everything — especially if the lighting conditions aren't changing much from shot to shot. Shooting in a church, I want to know that the aperture is going to stay as wide open and I want to know that the shutter speed is going to remain slow but fixed (say, around 1/30th sec). Working in M mode, I do use auto-ISO with a range (typically of 800–1600 or 2000). The photos may be a little noisy sometimes but I don't have to worry about camera shake and don't usually have to worry about motion blur. The way I look at it, if I'm in any other mode besides M, the aperture or the shutter or both may be changed by the camera.</p>

<p>But that's me and doesn't have to be you. I know a lot of photographers much better and more experienced than I who work in A, S (=Tv on some cameras); there are no doubt people making good livings shooting mostly in P. (You know, I'm sure the old joke that P stands for "Professional.") But I'm serious. There's no reason you can't make P mode work, at least if your camera allows program shift (or better yet, a Pentax with "hyper program").</p>

<p>So if you want to shoot in shutter-priority, that's fine. Note however that, in the church, shutter-priority is probably going to be pretty similar to shooting as I do, in M, because you can't set the shutter much slower than 1/30th second and you can't open the lens up wider than f4 (using the lens you mentioned). So it's going to be up to the ISO to make things work. Whatever mode you're in, you still need to know what your settings are — always. That's why I always say that M mode is <em>easier</em> than shooting in A or S or P. But it really doesn't matter. Use what works for you.</p>

<p>When I'm at the reception using flash, I do often switch both camera and flash to auto modes.</p>

<p>.</p>

<p><strong>Q. What are the right exposure settings for shooting in the church?</strong><br>

A. If you're shooting people coming down the aisle, I recommend that you learn how to raise your hand like a traffic cop to ask them to STOP for a second. THen you can take your shot while they're standing still and very briefly posing for you. I talk to the wedding party the night before at the rehearsal. I do this almost always even if I'm able to use flash, which I usually am. At the wedding, I'm there in the aisle just inside the door. The couple walks in (say, bridesmaid and groomsman), I look at them — I'm standing in the aisle so they can't miss me — hold up my right hand to ask them to stop, I take two quick shots, then I give them a thumbs up to thank them and I step out of their way. NO CHIMPING here. You have to know that you've got the shot. You can hold up the wedding for about 2 seconds and that's it.</p>

<p>Now, figuring out the right settings is a matter of experience. Of course, you'd <em>like</em> to shoot as if it were a partly cloudy spring afternoon with good lighting — at, say, 1/400th sec and ISO 200, perhaps with an aperture of f2.8 not because you need the light but only to get shallower depth of field. But the fact is, conditions are typically nowhere near ideal, so you have to figure out the limits beyond which you do not dare go. If people are standing still, you can set the shutter to 1/60th sec, 1/30th sec, or even slower, depending on your camera holding technique (if you're not using a tripod), whether you've got image stabilization helping you, and probably a couple other things. You'll want to use a wide aperture, although if your lens that isn't sharp wide open, well, then that may be a limiting factor, too. Another limiting factor is the ISO performance of your camera. The final factor: the lighting in the church. Do remember that wedding rehearsals often aren't held at the same time as the wedding the next day, and even if they are, weather and lighting conditions can change.</p>

<p>One great reason to use primes (which I've generally favored, especially at the ceremony) is that you can typically get faster apertures. The "nifty fifty" f1.4 50mm lens (for full frame) is practically de rigueur for wedding photographers. My <em>slowest</em> lenses go to f2.8. But again, primes are a personal choice and zooms are both popular with pros and capable of excellent photos.</p>

<p>If you can use flash — and I've almost always been able to, for the processional and recessional — then use flash, of course, if you feel comfortable with it.</p>

<p>.</p>

<p><strong>Q. What about white balance?</strong><br>

A. There are two schools of thought on the matter of white balance. I think of them as the purists, and the slackers. I'm a slacker.</p>

<p>According to the purists, white balance makes a difference to metering and thus to exposure, and nailing the white balance at the time of capture will not only save you time in post-processing, it will also help you nail your exposures and possibly get a wee bit more exposure range. This school seems to be technically correct. I admire anybody who does this. Of course if you set the white balance for the back of the church, you have to remember to reset it for the front of the church, where the lighting from the altar might be different. Then reset it as soon as you step in the lights outside. Or in the dressing room. And everywhere else.</p>

<p>Which is why I'm a slacker. I shoot raw — always, everywhere. That's not negotiable. But when it comes to white balance, I either set it to 5000K and leave it alone, or I use auto white balance. I do carry a Whi-Bal card and I've been known to take a test shot of that, for later reference. But I have a lot of things on my mind when I'm shooting and I'm not calm or smart enough to add white balance to my worries. In the old days, I did spend time fiddling with white balance in post. I'm happy to say that my last couple cameras do a great job about 90% of the time and I typically leave the white balance setting in Lightroom at "As Shot".</p>

<p>.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

<p>Will</p>

Hi Anton, with your 5D Mk 2, I think you can safely shoot at an ISO of 1600 for the dark church, but for working

outside bring the ISO back down to about 100 to 400. Im my opinion, anything over 1600 can cause unwanted

noise, pixelations, with this camera. It's a very good camera.

 

You got some very good advice from the fellow gifted and experienced photographers that have posted.

 

When is the wedding? In you can, post a few pictures on this site. We all like to see how fellow photographers are doing.

<p>Not sure if this was covered, but you can check out the white balance where you'll shoot and set this up in the camera. Most recent DSLR's permit this sort of settings and being able to switch to XXXX K degrees & also be able to switch back to auto WB. I prefer to set things in the camera, which makes things easier in the edit process. Also, manipulations (at least in my experience) can correct the image, but some of those things introduce a loss in image quality.</p>

<p>I think a fast 50 or 30/35mm would be v. handy (as suggested), and if you don't want to lay out the funds for it, you can always rent the lens for that occasion.</p>

<p>Good luck</p>

<p>Les</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Low light in a church is a vary vague statement and leave just guess work. That said, what ever light level it is always make sure your shutter speed is of most priority. You can have your camera set to whatever and if you get a blurred picture from camera or subject movement then what difference does it make? Always set your shutter speed first in low light conditions. Always use fastest shutter possible for the most security. The choice of lenses in low light without flash will mean the 1.4 and faster lenses. It is best to shoot at least one stop closed down from wide open. Best focal length would be 24mm or 35mm. Forget zoom lenses just get the shot and worry about cropping later. You will always have more depth of field with a wider lens.<br>

1. 35 1.4<br>

2. set shutter to at least 125 ( I like 200sec in case I have to work quickly)<br>

3. set aperture to 2.0 <br>

4. set iso that will give you proper exposure based on the settings above. If the low light is better than you thought then close down the aperture more to gain more depth of field. If on the other hand the light is really low Do not go above 3200 iso but rather set aperture to 1.4 wide open. At last resort go above 3200 to what ever gives you a correct exposure. Again I don't know what low level light will be in your case senario.</p>

<p>Don't the Canon have auto iso like the Nikons do? Then you can shoot in manual and set the shutter speed to the minimum you need and the aperture to whatever is needed. And the camera will ride the iso up and down to get the exposure right.</p>

<p>Large aperture primes and shooting wide works best in low light.</p>

<p>thank you everyone's response. I did not expect my question would have received so much detailed replies and helpful advices. so thank you so much for your time. This is a very good forum for photog.<br>

<br />I think I will use manual mode to shoot; Some photographers suggest to use prime lens like 50mm or 35mm lens with ultra wide aperture. I never thought about using prime lens because the subjects will be walking from the entrance toward me, and so I think zoom lens may be better choice. I realize the aperture is not as wide, but DOF should not be a major issue. 70-200mm lens allow me to shoot from distance away, and so I don't need to walk back and forth as much. I would probably use prime lens (85mm 1.8)on my second camera if I can get one. <br>

<br /><br /></p>

<p>Anton now you are including more info that we were not aware of. You now say you have two cameras and you have an 85 1.8. In the case of two cameras you should have your wide angle 35 1.4 ready to take your shots from 10 feet to 5 feet away and your 85 to take the shots from farther away or to get really tight shots.<br>

Again I say do not use the zoom f4 you are only asking for trouble. If you had flash then that would be a different story. The idea is not to shoot at 125,000 iso.</p>

<blockquote>

<p><strong>Don't the Canon have auto iso like the Nikons do?</strong> Then you can shoot in manual and <strong>set the shutter speed</strong> to the minimum you need and the aperture to whatever is needed. <strong>And the camera will ride the iso up and down to get the exposure right.</strong></p>

</blockquote>

<p>Auto ISO, when available in Canon Cameras, is not exactly the same as in Nikon Cameras.<strong><br /></strong></p>

<p>One major and fundamental difference is that Canon dos not allow and cannot accommodate Exposure Compensation, when Auto ISO is engaged and the Camera is in Manual Mode ("M Mode").</p>

<p>As I understand there is (was to be) an exception: the EOS-1D X. A firmware update was expected in Jan 2014 that allowed this to be the first Canon EOS to allow EC in M Mode with Auto ISO. There was discussion about a similar update for the EOS 6D. <strong>I don't know if either firmware update happened?</strong></p>

<p>On the other hand, I think that (all?) Nikon Cameras that have Auto ISO available also allow for Exposure Compensation to be engaged when the Camera s in M Mode.</p>

<p>The use of EC, when the camera is in M Mode and Auto ISO is engaged allows the Photographer the ability to manually override the camera's ISO selection in situations when the Photographer decides that the Camera's TTL Meter will not get the exposure "correct".</p>

<p>Shooting in Available Light, for a Processional or Recessional are two situations where I would require Exposure Compensation available to use.</p>

<p>Yes, there is a similarity of functionality in so far as that Canon Cameras allow the Photographer to set a minimum (slowest) Shutter Speed, when Auto ISO is engaged.</p>

<p>WW</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Hi Michael M, sorry for the confusion. I only have one 5d Mark ii camera, but I know I need a second camera, and I am trying to buy one if I got enough money. I do have a 85mm 1.8 lens and I love it. The F/4 70-200mm lens is light in weight, but definitely not fast or fast enough in low light shoot, especially when flash is not available. and i agree with you that we should always try to stay away from High ISO like 3200 or higher.</p>

<p>Anton I am glad you understand your limitations. Shooting at 3200 is the highest I recommend. So all you need to do is rent another body and a 35 1.4 or 24 1.4 and you are all set for the ceremony. I would also recommend a 24 to 70 zoom for your flash candids.</p>

Great advise from Michael. Absolutely have a flash candid rig ready to go for when you can use the flash.

<blockquote>

<p >Hi all<br />should i use shutter-priority mode (TV) when I shoot in wedding ceremony in a church? manual mode?<br />the ceiling is high and its color is dark brown, low light, and flash is not allowed. It is a challenge especially when the bridal party walking down the aisle. what setting would you recommend? i appreciate your advise, as I don't have much experience in shooting wedding in a church. <br />thanks</p>

<p >Anton</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Hi Anton,</p>

<p><strong>Here are a few tips I've found to be helpful:</strong></p>

<p><strong>1)</strong> <strong>Since you are not that experienced at shooting in a church, I recommend seeing the church before the wedding if possible ...</strong> or attending the rehearsal if there is one. It will be time well spent. Later on, after you get experience, it will be less needed ... but to start off, it will be a huge help in preparing you for the real thing.</p>

<p><strong>2)</strong> <strong>ALWAYS find out what is allowed in the church prior to the ceremony!</strong> Each denomination or religion can have very different rules regarding photography. This information can have a profound effect on what you use and how you use it.<br>

<em> </em><br>

<em>For example</em>, some churches, and more conservative synagogues only allow limited photography without flash from the back of the facility ... <strong>where more typically</strong> many others allow flash photography of the processionals, often even from the front of the aisle ... then no flash during the ceremony itself.</p>

<p><strong>Lenses:</strong> in many cases just using a 70-200 will often be problematic at times, like when shooting processionals. 70mm is too long in many cases where the actual processional aisle is relatively short ... if you do not have a 24-70 or 24-105 I suggest renting one ... and then buying one ASAP if you want to professionally photograph weddings. Personally, I could shoot an entire wedding with just a 24-105, but I know for certain I couldn't with a 70-200.</p>

<p>As Bob suggested, get a tripod or at least a monopod for available light work even IF your lens is stabilized. Other then the processionals and recessionals, most ceremonies are relatively static affairs ... they aren't playing soccer up there ... so a bit slower shutter speed coupled with timing your shots should be okay. </p>

<p><strong>Metering</strong>: Personally, I use center weighted manual metering in dimly lit churches, or any darker venue, when using TTL flash. When using flash for processionals, you can set a bit slower shutter speed and rely on the "flash duration" to freeze the main subject. The more dominate the subject is in the frame, the more this technique works. This technique is called "Dragging The Shutter" ... look it up for a deeper understanding.</p>

<p><strong>Available Light Exposure Mode:</strong> For available light in churches I use center weighted or matrix metering, and often set the camera to A (Aperture Preferred) and keep my eye on the shutter speed to avoid subject blur. IF and only IF the shutter speed is too slow for the action do I increase the ISO. No matter what camera is being used, the lower the ISO, the higher the quality of the image. ISOs past 1000 or so start messing with dynamic range as well as color fidelity, skin tones, and hue separation.</p>

<p><strong>White Balance:</strong> As suggested above, this is a debatable subject. I really depends on how good your specific camera is at Auto White Balance ... and more importantly, how easy it may be to quickly set a Custom WB. In many situations, especially ones with mixed artificial lighting temperatures, the savings grace is that it is a constant. As a constant, all one need do is set the Custom WB once for that venue. If the Bride's dress is white I want it to look white ... not pink, yellow or blueish. I carry a piece of white cloth to set it, or I use the Bride's dress.</p>

<p>The above has saved countless hours in post work because the WB is pretty close, and the exposures are closer to true. That said, I have used a few cameras that had terrific AWB, and relied on it with no disappointments.</p>

<p>Hope this helps a bit,</p>

<p>Marc</p>

<p> </p>

<p>thank you Marc! your tips are very helpful for sure. I had a 24-70mm f2.8 lens and I am considering to get a 24-105mm lens. I had this lens before, and I found the extra focal length allows me to zoom in closer to subject. However, I did not keep it, and I sold the lens, and replaced it with 24-70mm. I thought 24-70 was a upgrade over 24-105. But once I got more experienced, I feel like that both two lens are equally important.</p>

<p>EOS 7D mark 2 has exposure compensation with auto ISO. It is tucked away somewhere in the menus. I've not used it yet.</p>

<p>Church lighting is usally constant. If I am allowed lights, I set up them up in advance for f5.6 SS 80 Iso 400 and if I need 2.8 or 2.0 I will go down on my Iso and if I need more DOF I will go up on the ISO instead of messing with my lights; however, I keep pocket wizards on my lights if I do need any changes. If I can not use flash I make sure I have a hybrid tripod/monopod and shoot at 2.8 or faster and limit the Iso to 2000 for the shadows. I have recently added a second shooter to record the entire wedding in 4K so nothing is missed. </p>

<p> </p>